jamiew

I understand your concerns with the $200 camera, but it is relaly one of the cheapest camera that is still really good quality. You can go lower, but the quality generally goes down. I am shure your kid will get a few keepers. I dont want you to feel like I do when i get a once in a lifetime photo on my camera phone. It's a big letdown.

 

The F20 is $70 off at Dell.com now by the way:

 

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0746760&acd=1747797205

 

If you are really worried about durability Pentax makes one that is almost water proof .. it's the Pentax W20. less well reviewed, but still acceptable. It is about the same price as the F30, and probably less likely to get fried in the sand.

I am very facinated with the the following cameras and still not sure which to buy. Here they are listed with the pros I see in each (not listing cons since they would only be cons to me)

 

GR-D - It has everything I want in a small camera, except for the size of the sensor. I never used zoom much (Yashica T4 was my favorite film camera). I just really wish Ricoh used a APS sized sensor.

Pros - hot shoe, user interface, size, RAW, snap mode, can take AAA batteries in a jam

 

Canon G7 - I am a G3 user and despite all that you might read about this not being a worthy successor to the G3 (all of which is true), it is still an incredible camera in it's own right.

Pros - Viewfinder (and you can still add a real finder through the hot shoe if you want), Hot shoe (with Canon full E-TTL II support including wireless), IS, good zoom, Very flexible and good UI, through Custom functions can set up a 'snap' mode similar to the Ricoh or any other 'mode' you want.

 

Fuji F30 - If you shoot lots of color in low light this probably beats the other two and it's SUPER cheap (talking US$220 now).

Pros - AMAZING camera for the price, good low light

 

and a black sheep...

 

Pentax K100D with limited lenes - Tiny for a SLR (gota see these)

http://it.nikkei.co.jp/photo/camera/pentax/istds2/review-ex/40mm.jpg

http://www.pentax.ru/press/image/lenses/DA_21/K100D_21mm.jpg

but still bigger than all the others here).

Pros - It actually has the APS sensor, IS, best photo quality, best user interface, Hot Shoe, the most flexible by leaps and bounds.

 

I would try them all (althought good luck finding the pentax limited lenses in stock at most stores since they are mostly special order).

 

In summary..

 

If you want cheap get the F30

If you want a really good really small camera get the GR-D

If you are willing to trade a bit of extra size for much greater versatility get the G7

 

I dont really think the Pentax belongs here, but those lenses are just so cool I added it for fun.

Honstly I think the best for a kis is either the Fuji F20 or the F30

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=445824&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=423808&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

 

For a kid I would go with the F20 (lacks A & S Priority modes and a bit less battery life, but cheaper and just as good photo quality).. although the current $50 mail in rebate make the f30 look really nice.

I dont think Sigma would make the lens f4 without a good reason. I can think of two:

 

Going for near 0 distortion and keeping the lens compact.

 

Remember that this is still a digital and the light from the lens needs to fallon the sensor at basically 90 degree angle or the picture will suffer. I am sure that Sigma is not useing the expensive microlenses that Leica used with the M8 to solve the problem in this camera.

I have reciently learned more about photochrome and was wondering if there are

digital tools to duplicate the look?

Eric.

 

Manufacturers really have not dropped the ball as you put it. The cameras are getting better and better every year. It is a new technology, and takes time.

 

It's all a mute point anyway. What really makes digital point and shoots slow are compromises needed for video. And no video = small sales, and sales are hardly the thing a manufacturer can afford to drop to ball on. I know it may not seem it but the F30 is cheap as far as digital cameras go. It can only be as cheap as it is with sales volume.

The point of my post was that they are doing what they need to do. And the 9 month lag.. lately I have not been reading photo.net very much ;).

 

Anyways, I appreciate the colorful comments :)

Simple strategy for Leica.

 

1 - Continue to focus on your optics division. (core competancy)

2 - Continue to support your old film cameras until demand goes away since you dont want to ostrisize you loyal customer base, and the M rangefinders really dont need much R&D these days. (tradition)

3 - Continue to build len's for Panasonic (and others), and continue to rebadge their cameras. (core revenue)

4 - Make a Digital M and charge a mint since the only real purpose of the M cameras these days is nostalgia and to show how great of an optics company you are (thus supporting points 1-3).

 

There US$100,000 consultant advice for free.

Daniella.

 

Do you always walk.. or do you have a car, scooter, take public transportation, etc... Because the only reason someone would want to use Wi_fi is for convience. That is also the same reason you dont walk everywhere.

 

besides.. americans are slow to take up new technology .. it's the asian and european countries that will pick up on this first. That's why in the Louvre last year it was all the europeans using camera phones so they could wirelessly send photos to friends and reletvies.

Actually I think wireless for the consumer is the future of digital imaging. It might not end up being WiFi, possibly being based on cellular data services, but it's time will come and it will dominate the consumer area. Imagine this. Brand A's new EasyEasy camera/service. You are on a vacation snapping away. You take a break and stop for a coffee at the local cafe with a WiFi hotspot. Your camera auto detects the hotspot, connects, then offloads all your photos into your online photo account (with server grade backups). This frees up space on your memory card, and allows your friends and family to browse the photos while you are on your trip. When you return home you go online and select the photos you want to print and they arrive at your doorstep with 2-3 business days. If you want hard copies you just download what you need. All you have to think about on your trip are batteries.

More resolution in and of it self only benefits enlargements, and crops. If you are printing a smaller photo but using the whole image, then it is the printer resoluion that limits details (i.e. a 4x6 from a Canon 2d MKII (16mp) looks no better than one from my 10D (6mp)). I have seen this from professional printers. You pretty much have to go to a 8x10 or maybe even 11x14 or larger to get to a point where the print shows more resolution than the image (@ 300dpi). Of course when you go really large many printers only show 155dpi.

 

That being said there are other benefits with newer sensors (dynamic range, shadow and highlight detail, moire, noise, etc, etc) that generally make the newer cameras better than the old.

Wayne,

 

It all comes down to $$$$. Piecing together some sort of support for old lenses through software is CHEAP since you already essentially have a computer in the camera. Doing the same mechanically is expensive. Add to the fact that the vast majority of purchasers of this camera probably will never use an older lens (actually they probablly will never buy ANY lens and just stick with the included kit) and you have lots of opposition from mgmt to making the camera more expensive and hence get less market share.

 

I just hope Pentax comes out with a more upmarket camera that does have this mechanical control.

Joyce.

 

You will find that the Pentax following (especially on the net) seems to act like it is them against the world. They are as defensive as the Leica crowd if you have any of that experience. I find it bothersome but I appreciate it at the same time. The reason you are getting the answers you received is that you are asking for technical comparisons from a group that does not generally value the technology of a photographic instrament as much as the experience of taking the photo, and it's end quality. The Canon fourm this is not.

 

You would be better off listing what you like and do not like about your experience with the D70, and asking people here how the DS handles those situations. Thinks like shot to shot delay, power on delay, AF, etc.

 

By the way. You mention you use a D70 for work. What type of work do you do where they provide you with a camera, and what are you looking for with your personal camera (i.e. will it be for work or pleasure).

Since you already own a bunch of Nikon lense (I assume with your two cameras) you should probably just stick with Nikon.

 

That being said.. The Pentax DSLR's have better viewfinders than all but the top of the line Canon and Nikon DSLR. This, coupled with Pentax's excellent backwards lens compatability makes the Pentax DSLR's the best cameras for use with older MF lenses (Only Nikon Professional DSLR's can use some of Nikon's older MF lenses) . Pentax also makes some truely excellent lenses.

 

The negetive (other than you already owning Nikon lenses). While covering all focal lenghts Pentax does not offer as complete a lens lineup as Nikon. It might not matter to you, but Pentax also does not offer image stabilization (VR in Nikon speak). And the biggie to me, in the US you can not generally rent lenses.

 

Image quality wise, the istDS uses the same chip as the D70 so dont expect any noticable difference.

 

That's about it.

Yes it is shocking, but expected. Small companies can make film cameras and maybe even a few lenes, but they can not compete in digital technology unless they stick to their niche. In other words area of the market that the major digital camera makes steer clear of. None have done so yet, but essentially they need:

 

Leica - Digital M that is just like the M7 but without film.

Contax - Digital T series (with APS sized sensor)

Minox - Digital LX.

 

I could go on but I think you got my point. Why would I buy a generic digicam from a small camera maker when I can get a generic Sony or Canon or Nikon that takes better photos, is avaliable everywhere, and is cheaper.

Martin.

 

I agree with you about the lens. That's why I use Canon 10D and L glass (IMHO just as good, but different, than most leica glass with today's digital sensors). The problem, and the thing that keeps putting me off, is that no Camera maker has yet put a larger sensor on a packet camera. A 10D does not make a Minox 35 replacement (or Yashica T4 or Contax T3, etc, etc). What I have listed are the best pocket cameras currently avaliable.

 

Actually I am aghast that Minox has not made a pocket digital in the 8x11 form factor. The small digital chips are almost a perfect fit. All Minox needs to do is avoid FOV crop by designing a slightly smaller lens to better fit the standard sensors (It's much cheaper to make a new lens once than to re-design and test a new chip every few years for a custom format). Add a SD card slot and battery (preferable one AA), but omit a color LCD. Have a B&W LCD for just a histogram and some basic camera information. If they only had it shoot in RAW then they dont really need ANY more camera controls than they currently have. It will be slightly bigger then the Minox TL, but not by much at all. They can offer an attachable flash/color LCD with RAW to jpeg conversion in one module and then bob's your uncle.

I disagree with the Leica option or Minox or any small traditional camera manufacturer. Digital is all about R&D and they just can not compete. They all completly rely on either re-badging or have another company make their electronics for them. That is a sure fire way of not being cutting edge. Stick with the larger camera makers and/or those that are also electronic companies. The current best sensor is the 7mp Sony one (all current 7mp digicams use the Sony chip). Sony seems to have a winner here with extra resolution, but avoided the increased ISO noise that typically comes with more resolution.

 

If you are looking for a camera to replace a Minox 35 here are a few reccomendations.

 

Sony W7 or P200 (P200 have a few extra features, but W7 can use AA (rechargeble) batteries.

 

Canon SD500 - Great compact, and finally fixes the issue of Canon digitals being slow to focus.

 

Nikon 7600 or 7900 - I have heard good things, but too new so I have not tried.

 

Casio Exilim EX-Z750 - Also read good things about this, but have not used.

 

The best overall compact digital camera (my opinion) is the Canon S70, but is is not small like the other cameras listed here. More like a typical 35mm P&S Zoom.

 

A few points you will need to consider.

 

- All compact digital camera have tons of noise at any ISO greater than 100. Avaliable light cameras they are not.

 

- All digital camera use tiny sensors and thus essentially do not have selective focus (the reason aperature priority was not a consideration in my reccomendations).

Here is my understanding. Minox digital cameras are generally not much more than re-badged cameras from other manufacturers. That being said they are no better and no worse than any other digital in their respective class. Personally I would rather go with a camera like the Sony P200 or the Canon SD500 since they are superioror performing (the Minox cameras are about 2 generations out of date).

Kevin.

 

One other point I forgot to point out. If you plug your camera directly into the wall then your camera needs to deal with any power supply issues (surges, lightning, etc...). I know in western europe those are no more prevelant than in the US, but why risk the camera when you can risk a cheapo charger.

I understand not wanting to take a charger with you, but considering that any cable will need a built in power supply, an actual AA charger and cable is not much different in size. Especially if oyu can find one that plugs directly into a wall.. That being said it's up to you.

why are you specifically looking for only a 4mp camera that DOES NOT take AA?

Comment:

 

You mention haveing a dedicated AF button is useless becasue Pentax does not have USM. I beleive your point was not USM but rather the full time manual focus option most Canon USM lenses offer (but not all). I say that because if that was your point then you are incorrect becasue Pentax does offer full time manual on their new DA zoom lenses (the kit lens). Also more to the point, the main use for me (I use Canon now) of a dedicated AF button is to separate AF from exposure lock for sports. You want to use AF servo, and follow with AF, but you do not want to set exposure until the time of exposure.

 

Question:

 

When you use AE-L to set exposure when in manual mode, does it set exposure based on the standard program mode, or can you bias it to a certain aperature. In other words if I am set to Av 2.8 and I push AE-L will it try to maintain my Av setting, or just set whatever combination it sees fit. This is a concern because the camera lacks the hyper program mode of the IstD

Actually it was the FILM they did not buy. If you look at the % of 110 users using a 110 Auto it probably was very similar to the % of 35mm FILM users using Pentax other SLR's.

 

I think Pentax would have a killer if they made a Digial 110 Auto only because now the sensor size it supports is probably in 80%+ of all CAMERAS being sold today.

Actually Todd. the e-1 still has the same 4:3 aspect ratio of the e-10, just that the pyysical size of the sensor is larger. It sounds like the post you read was getting sensor aspect ration confused with sensor size.

 

Oh one thing that i always have loved is the Olympus's one touch WB function. It is so easy and fast to use. I absolutly despise the way Canon implemented custom WB on the 10D (even my old Canon G3 is better than the 10D).

Actually most MF wedding photographers do not use film faster than 800 ISO, and generall rarely use film faster than 400 since qualtiy suffers.

 

As for the 10D and it's flash.. I wholy agree. I have a 550EX and I can only be sure that the flash exposure I get is just about exactly a bit off each time. I hate the time of exposure focus point bias is has. Supposedly the Nikon and Pentax and Olympus and Minolta are all better.