janko_belaj

I'm not that good in Greek (better in Latin), I just used a book... :-))<br>

Anyway, Frankie, I think that you are just complicating a little bit. Personally, I don't like to

follow rules and definitions like I'm in army or jail... I like to be free while interpreting

those rules and definitions. You are going back to Ted's 360° camera. That might be

(better - that IS) one of panorama "modes". But imagine now being some old

Greek, or even some of theirs Gods standing at Olymp and looking down on the mortals.

With the dark peak of the Olymp behind your back... If you try to take 360° shot up

there, you will probably ruin your picture with that dark peak. So, most appropriate

panorama in such situation will be smaller, let say 240°... While photographing we are

framing the interesting part of what we see. Therefore we sometimes use telephoto lens,

sometimes wide angle. So, sometimes panoramic picture might be view of 360°,

sometimes just 100° on 6x17cm... Why not?<br>

<i>Following picture isn't LF shot, isn't true panorama by definition, but might illustrate

what I was talking - behind me was just a bunch of loud and not interesting speakers.</i><div></div>

By linguistic definition, panorama is "unbroken view of the whole region surrounding an

observer". If you want a direct translation from greek it will be an "all-sight" or "all-view".

So, true panoramic photography should consist of 360 degrees. But then I ask you what

about the height of that panorama - do you look at the sky when viewing panorama from

some tower? I think it is more philosophical term rather then some precise definition. At

least in our photographs. If you start talking about distortion of wide angle lens in some

panoramic shot, we can start talking about "compression" of perspective with some tele

lens in our portraits. Human eye is an continuous auto focus mechanism. There is no such

think as in focus and out of focus when looking at somebody's face (I'm not talking about

ill eye which can see close but not far...). Saying that - I think that anything what can make

picture wider than we usually expect is sort of panoramic tool. Don't get me wrong - I

don't think that 90mm Super Angulon on 4x5" is an panoramic tool, but 75 on 6x12cm

might be. After all, panoramic shot is what we "feel" when staring at the picture, not the

proportion of someone's paper...

I have to say that I don't like grain which I'm geting with Rodinal, and I have found that XTol

makes me much finier grain. At least with longer developing time in weaker developr (which

should create finer tones). The previous picture I posted is just an example of such rich

tones, but the picture itself isn't of the best sharpnes (old 135mm symmar in windy day).

This one was made with really sharp G-Claron, was scanned on Topaz at 2500 dpi. The

details here are resized at 50%. Shot was efke 25 developed in XTol 1+2 for 11 minutes, no

water bath. I would like to have it developed with some wather bath and maybe in a slightly

cooler developer. But that is all under 2-3%...<div></div>

Here are some mine notes I took while I was on my last vacation year ago - not the perfect

situation for developing, temperature of chemicals was from 18-22°C (room

temperature above 25 or even 28°). Than, my timing was +/- 30 seconds... I didn't

care much as I was just testing my Tachihara and didn't expect perfect results. Anyway, I'm

really happy with what I have got.<br>

(sorry for my clumsy english)<br>

<br>

Xtol 1+1<br>

7.5-8 min. in developer, same time in water. little bit to strong.<br>

4 min. in dev., 4 min in water, 3min. in dev, 5min. in w., almost perfect - exposed by

sunny 16 rule as my meter died in the filed.<br>

<br>

Xtol 1+2<br>

11 minutes in dev. 10 in water. (s-16-r again, same day as above), slightly weaker. good

but could be a bit stronger. 12 minutes?<br>

11 minutes, no water bath. 21°. could be stronger.<br>

<br>

Xtol 1+3<br>

(negative is perfect, but I don't know exactly what I meant with those timing:)<br>

5+5+5+10, no agitation (?), night temperature.<br>

<br>

Xtol 1+4(1000ml) + 5ml Rodinal<br>

(high contrast shot - sunset with white clouds and very dark trees. orange filter used)<br>

(two sheets, exposed as 12 and 50 ASA)<br>

10 min dev. 8 min water, 8min dev. 10min w., normal agitation.<br>

12 ASA - slightly stronger, less agitation would help.<br>

50 ASA - a little bit week.<br>

conclusion - stupido, use efke 25 as 25... <br>

(I hate that meter, dead again. sunny 16 again)

25 ASA, orange filter, 1/15 f 16, go to 1/4 f 32.

1st plate - close the shutter after compousing frame!

2nd plate - 16min with regular constant agaitation (2 circles / 30 sec.). 10 min in water

bath. Isn't that perfect? :-)

(this shot is attached here, unfortunately, some moire ocured in sky, should scan on drum

scanner)

<br>

<br>

(studio strobes, few weeks later)<br>

<br>

Rodinal 1+50<br>

7 min. - could be stronger<br>

8 min. - almost perfect.<br>

<br>

Rodinal 1+75<br>

12 min. - will be good for scan, not for condenser enlarger.<br>

14 min. with 6 in water. good. not perfect grain.<br>

<br>

<br>

that's it. I was using 9x12cm efke PL 25. hope it will help as some starting point.<div></div>

Thomas, have you solved your problem?<br>

I have just got mine (few hours ago) and he (s.n. 61665xx) act the same way - upper speed are fine, lower speeds just like B.<br>

To all other expirienced users: unfortunately, I'm not in US so I will have to find some local repairman (have a friend who is repairing manual only cameras, but I'm afraid that he have never got Nikon S in his hand)... is there (somewhere on the net) some repair manual for S2?<br>

<br>

Tnx,<br>

Janko

http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/faq/large_format_lenses/#q14<br>

<br>

<i>14. I have an older Schneider convertible lens. How do I change between the focal

lengths?<br>

With the lens put together, it operates in the short focal length mode. By removing the

entire front element (everything in front of the shutter), the lens is converted into the long

focal length mode. In this configuration, use the green scales on the shutter to determine

f/stop. Removing half the lens from the system affects the lens's ability to correct for

aberrations. The long focal length mode is perfect for portraits, as the edges of the image

will exhibit softness. In the short focal length mode (both lens elements in place), the lens

will behave like a non-convertible lens in terms of quality and specifications.</i><br>

<br>

btw, schneider have a lot of good infos about older lenses on their site. have to recomend

this site to all users of old lenses. did help me a lot.<br>

<br>

Janko.

Simon, for wide work, all I can tell you to read Q.-Tuan Luong's article <a href="http://

www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses-wide.html" target="blank">wide and normal for

4x5</a>, than article by by John Sparks and Kerry Thalmann <a href="http://

www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses4x5.html" target="blank">Lenses for 4x5

cameras - landscape</a>, and <a href="http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/"

target="blank">LF part Kerry L. Thalmann's site</a>. Hope this helps ;-)<br>

Edward, thanks for recomendation, but for now, new lens(es) will stay as dream... right

now I'm thinking where to find some lousy defended bank so I can buy 8by10 or maybe

12x20... I'm tired of trying to avoid dust, and contact print of 12x20... well, who will look

for dust there? ;-)))<br>

Martin, your question forced me to went out on rain and walk some 30 meters (60 in both

directions...), well, as lazy man, I will charge you a beer 1st time I visit Germany (Is it

Hannover?) ;-)))<br>

Well, I asked my lab technician if it is possible to move those clips closer to the edge (as

Hogarth have noticed - I also never felt like that percent is "stolen" from my picture)... no,

in system we have (not me, but the lab where I develop slides) that is not possible: clips

are on fixed position and can develop only 4x5" (not even 9x12cm... what is not big

problem now when only Agfa produce that size... if still?). <br>

Btw, on my slides, only two clips left signs in picture area - usually on "down" side, or to

say - side where is notch code is "deep" enough for those clips. Haven't ask what will

happen if they don't use lower clips? Another beer? ;-)))<br>

<br>

Janko<br>

Simon, I'm using Sinar F1 for few years (that, of course, is not a field camera :))) and have

bought Tachihara a month ago. Sinar is much more easier to control than Tachihara, that

may be for any other rail vs flatbed comparation, so I can't advice you to take press or field

camera if you wont "plenty" of movements, but (big BUT), for field work (specially

landscape, nature up to steady animals and basic macro), movements which can give you

flatbed cameras like Tachihara and Shen-Hao (and many more expensive systems) are

probably all you will ever need (including "rigidity" for portraits of people or animals). I'm

not familiar with Crown Graphic (or any of press cameras) so I can't give you pros and cons

for such systems.<br>

My vote goes for Tachihara.<br>

<br>

Your next question might be about lenses, of course, you might already have made that

decision, but as I worked with similar small/medium systems I will take chance to write my

(limited) experience with LF lenses. I was using 24-28mm lenses on 35mm, 50mm on

6x6cm and 65 on 6x9cm, I wanted "not-to-wide" lens for 4x5" (9x12cm) landscapes so I

chose 90mm Super-Angulon (for price/performance and availability) and have found that

particular lens a little bit to wide for my personal taste. Now I'm working (playing in field)

with 135mm Symar and 210mm G-Claron. Those two are small, light and almost perfect

for my needs. "Almost" because I'm thinking to go wider than 135mm Symar but lighter

than Super-Angulon (maybe Kodak Wide Field Ektar?. I had to write that notice because I

was really surprised how 90mm is "wide" on 4x5"...<br>

<br>

Janko<br>

Hello Pietro,<br>

That assignment you got is what I'm doing almost 20 years... (for now only page with

Croatian text with some of my work is located on <a href="http://ik-ranger.net/"

target="blank">ik-ranger.net</a> ...pictures are not on Croatian ;-))<br>

Usually I'm caring 4 to 8 flash heads with big soft boxes or very wide reflectors, but

sometimes I need to fire those flashes several time, and once, the church was so tall and

"short" that I needed more than 6 flashheads (and I had that time only 6). So, I have fired 2

times flashes in one position, my assistant placed hat over the lens (trying not to touch

lens or camera) and I have rearranged flashes for 3th and 4th fire, and than again for 6th

(only for the top of the fresco). <br>

<a href="http://ik-ranger.net/galerija.php?LokalitetID=4&SlikaID=45"

target="blank"><i>here is link for that picture</i></a><br>

Is that helpful to you? Ask more, I will try to help as much as I can. <br><br>

Btw, that idea with two big white reflectors may work only if you won't (your composition)

suffer of huge light fall off (Now I know that I needed even more light on the top of that

wall I have shot few moths ago... next time...)<br>

And, I don't know how old that fresco which you will shot is, in how good/bad condition it

is... usually, I need more contrast so I use wide reflectors, but sometimes, fresco isn't

complete and have big white holes, so I have to use softer light on it...<br>

<br>

Janko<br>

Well, the cheapest film in "roll format" is line of efke "R" (25-50-100)... at least here in

Croatia, and specially if you have chance to get it directly from factory (as I have bought

my last efke PL 25 (9x12cm) don't ask for price... was really low :-)))<br>

Now, about "look and feel" of efke films. As much as I know, efke 25 and efke 50 (KB, R or

PL) are, so called, ortho-panchromatic emulsions. That name is not right by some

conventions (film should be ortho or pan, not both... or mixture, because panchromatic

emulsion is just wider in spectral sensitivity... maybe we should call those emulsions

"short panchromatic"?), but is describing what you can get - film which is more sensitive

to blue and green part of spectrum and just a little bit sensitive in red part of it. Film efke

100 is, on the other hand, more modern and normal panchromatic film with (almost) fool

sensitivity to all visible spectrum. That is difference of efke 25&50 and 100. Similarity is

that all 3 kind of emulsion is "single layer" emulsion - all silver stuff is layered on base in

one pass, not combining more passes (more layers). That is why that emulsion have to be

ticker than modern (let's call them "multi-pass-silver") emulsions, and are much rich in

silver. So, developer will need much more job, grain will be bigger, but you will have much

more material to work/play with in matter of pull-push game (original efke's low sensitive

emulsion was about 12 DIN, that will be 12 ASA, when I started to use efke films, those

were named "14" describing sensitivity of 14 DIN - 20 ASA, today it is 25 ASA (15 DIN)...

but is still "same" emulsion. at least derived from basic ADOX formulae.)<br>

I had few lousy days here on my vacation (lousy weather, not company:)) so I have made a

few test with efke 25, Xtol and Rodinal (and Xtol+Rodinal combination), but the results I

can not post until I cam back home. What I can say that (on the eye) I liked the most efke

25 exposed at 40, developed in Xtol 1+3 for... well, somewhere between 15 and 20

minutes... will have to do more tests. can't wait to get home.

<p><i>"Who's doing all this good work now that the originator has passed away I

wonder?"</i><br>

Adam, Jason and Joel, I think... <a href="http://skgrimes.com/4.htm"

target="blank">http://skgrimes.com/4.htm</a></p>

<p>btw, I have never read any bad experience in "working" with SK-Grimes (and I'm not

looking for such stories right now;)), but also haven't find any European testimony...

Anyone

from Europe ordered some service from them? How did you handled custom (exporting

and importing again your lens)?<br>

<br>

Janko</p>

<p>I'm also posting scans here, occasionally, but just to delete them after few weeks or

months. Usually, after I made a real print, I'm not satisfied with scans I have posted... so,

as now there are just 3 pictures, which I will most probably change with some fresh shots

after I came back from my vacation... </p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2407492">Castle

Lukavec</a></p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2407535">ivy</a></p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2407583">Little

vineyard</a></p>

<p>Janko</p>

Marc, experiment with Rodinal at 1+25 and push your film by, at least, 2 f stops.. like ISO

400 to ISO 1600. Try with warmer developer, plus longer developing, of course.<br>

Rodinal usually gives grainer negatives in mid-tones, pushing film will produce even

stronger grain. btw, I have found that Rodinal (unlike some positive developers which you

can also use) won't produce so high contrast for you to lose high and low end details, and

will produce nicely shaped grain.<br>

Btw, best results in such experiments I have got with pushing efke 100 to ISO 800. As I'm

now on vacation, I can not tell you what time and temperature I have used... I'll be back in

8 days, so if that won't be long, I can post you some data and maybe even a scan for you,

if you are interested.<br>

<br>

Janko<br>

Donald, tnx for your big and fine post, but as you already noticed, I'm not in U.S. Most

probably, creating tank as you described won't be a problem here, but I will 1st need to

find person who can translate all that... measures are not problem (instead of "inch", our

plumbers, for instance, use german "zoll" - same measure, different name). But, what is

ABS pipe? ABS... something with breaks on the car? ;-))<br>

Similar sub-question goes to John: what is "T-8 fluorescent lamp shield"?<br>

Can someone illustrate (quick photo or even dirty sketch) that DIY tubes? I think I have

idea, but why to invent something already invented? :-)<br>

Btw, any solution just have to be daylight savy... my main reason for use of such tool isn't

everyday developing (for that I have trays at home, or hangers at lab), but for easy working

on trips.<br>

<br>

and tnx again.<br>

I would like to buy (new or used) tank for developing 9x12cm sheet film, but as I have

seen only one really clumsy plastic "non-spiral" for 6 sheets (you need to insert 3 sheets

on each side of some elliptical holder) I do not know what to look for. I think I would like

something like Nikor stainless steal tank, but there may be something newer, better,

cheaper?<br>

Can you help me with with recommendations and explanations? <br>

<br>

<i>Well, I prefer to develop in trays, but sometimes I can't do that (as is now on vacation...

I have to wait for my wife and daughter to go to the bed and than I have to darken small

bathroom... clumsy), so... </i><br>

<br>

Tnx for your help.<br>

Janko<br>

<i>Andrew, have to apologize for my 1st thoughts when I have seen your 1st table (without reading text above it...). Then I realized that you are not out of your mind, but that I'm impatient reader.</i><br><br>

Well, I'm using efke 25 film for a long time, in all formats (KB, R and PL - the last one just for a few weeks) and have never used such a long exposure compensation. As I can recall, the longest was some 20 or more years ago (in those time this emulsion was KB-14, 14 din) when I needed about 10 minutes instead of measured 3-4 minutes.<br>

In last 10 years, 1/4 or 1/2 EV compensation was quite enough for my night shots, now using KB and R 25 (and R-20 for short period of time, 20 ASA... Fotokemika switched lately to ISO numbers).<br>

As I'm relatively new in large format, for last year and half I have used only PL-100 and have bought large batch of efke PL 25 in 9x12cm just a month ago. Now, I'm on vacation with new camera, new film and new developer, so for last week, I'm in game (or joy:)) of testing those new stuff. Well, as I switched from Rodinal to Xtol right here in small and completely inadequate equipped apartment, I'm not in right position to bet on my test's, but giving tolerance of 10% (to temperature, time, dilutions) exposure compensation values are close to yours.<br><br>

And yes - it seams that Fotokemika have, in one moment, slightly changed it's best emulsion - in good way, I think. So, those huge differences in exposure compensation you have found on internet (and those have shocked me) might be for "old" efke. <br>

Of course, I can not be sure that Fotokemika changed old ADOX formula, but I see that this emulsion is different than those one I started with as kid.<br><br>

Janko<br>

... well... that sounds like my problem. Have seen few of them, but none had any kind of

information in viewfinder except those rings which I don't know how to name on English.

Now I don't disagree that strong as before :-)<br>

If you are buying a lightmeter in my country, you can chose between Gossen and Minolta

and that in just one shop. When I was in need for that tool (spot-flash-meter) I needed

one immediately so didn't made a proper research.<br>

My apologize for replaying with such tone, but I still think that placing anything in

Starlite's viewfinder will make him bigger (and is big now!)...<br>

<br>

Back to what you have accentuated, sometimes it seems that new products are coming on

market just to catch competition or to bring them new dollars in name of new products. It

is our luck that we are talking about part of market which is still slow in developing

(compared to the market of digital cameras, computer operating systems, sport shoes...).

For instance, imagine Cooke Optics selling their new Triple Convertible in "public beta"

version, with latter upgrade on Lens v.1.0.1 and with patch 1.1.b... But you could chose

color... Lens in metal pink... ;-))<br>

<br>

Janko

...oh, don't get me wrong, please. I also think that there is some space to improve

ergonomics on our tools, including spot meters, but I was referring to Lakhinders wish to

have display in Gossen's viewfinder... I'm looking at it right now, and just don't see space

for such kind of improvement. But I would surely like to have better triggers than those on

my Starlite.<br>

<br>

Janko

I strongly disagree with you... have Starlite and can't imagine what the size would be of

such monster. What the price would be, and after all, why? That isn't AF system... If I have

time to take my camera out of my backpack, place it on tripod, compose, move few meters

or just few centimeters, recompose... I sure have time to look at Starlite's

screen.<br><br>

Janko

they (at sinar) used to call F1 "the workhorse" ;-))<br>

<br>I don't think you will go wrong with either one, but there is one huge difference:

cambo have "U" bracket, and Sinar have "L" which is opticaly better design and gives yaw-

free movements.<br>My wote for Sinar (btw, I don't rember - does Cambo have a depth of

filed and tilt/shift calculator on it?)<br>

<br>Janko

When I started with LF (4x5) I was surprised with differences in focal lengths, better to say

in "feeling" they give me. I did a math and thought that 90mm Super-Angulon will sit in

between 24 and 28 on 35mm system, I thought that 210mm will be just like some 70

-80mm lens in 35mm system, but there is (my opinion only) huge difference. <br>

I was told that 90mm won't be a that wide as I calculated, and that 210 won't be that

narrow... but, I have found that shallow depth of field on f1:9 210 G-Claron suit my needs

in portraits much more than some 85mm 2:0 in leica format. I also found that I always got

(well, at least in 1st 10 or 20 shots) much more in my frame with 90mm S-A than I was

expected... (that was before I bought Fresnel lens).<br>

So, If you wish inexpensive but good lenses to start playing with that wonderful format, I

will recommend you just those two lenses (plus some fine and bright 135mm)... just my 2

cents.

Tnx for all your responses.<br><br>

Andrew, nice looking camera, but in case when I can not see the particular camera, I will

chose model with more user opinions around. Specially if that unknown model is just s

slightly more expensive. ...there are small but important differences in finishing (wood,

knobs, etc...) so I like to "listen" this wide rage of users...<br><br>

Sandro and Robert, tnx for sharing you experiences with me and: no there are no big

reasons for running away from US shops, just hoped that someone will know if any LF

shop exist near me (so I could visit the shop and choose by looking at particular camera).

I'm in "Middle Europe"... North Croatia to be more precisely. Just can't imagine that no one

in Germany or Italy, or... here around, have such shop...<br>

<br>

Btw, can I get your opinions on Badger Brand F1 Wood Field 4X5?<br>

<br>

Tnx again... ;-)<br>

I'm aware that such question was asked for several times here on photo.net, but I'm not

happy with answers I can find in archive.<br>

I'm looking for distributor or reseller of folding wood 4x5" cameras somewhere in Europe

(preferably Middle Europe - Austria, Deutschland, Neederland, maybe Italy...).<br>

I'm looking for Tachihara or Shen-Hao (or any similar) camera in range from 5 to 8

hundreds dollars. USD. What I can find is france reseller with prices almost two times

larger then those in US...?!<br>

(Yes, I would like to buy used for less than 500 USD, but it seams that I'm just unlucky...

for used my limit would be 450-500, and on last two items I have found on some *bay site

I was outbided by just few dollars... arghhhhh. Not to mention that I would like to have

that camera in 3 weeks from now ;-)))<br>

<br>

Tnx,<br>

Janko.