b2 -

Sanford,

I went to one about two years ago, was it worth it? Yes and No. The rep check my Ms and told me one was slow on high speeds, one was slow on low speeds. Got a new battery for my M6 (free). Never had a chance to play with the new stuff over at the sales counter (went with my wife and two young sons).

I wish I had more time to tinker, ask questions, should have brought my IIIa, next time perhaps. I should have worked my Ms before I got there more (the see light action these days) to see if I could get the shutters working better. I spent about a week working them after, now they sound fine.

I have lived in Rochester, NY, New York City, and now Chicago, IL, so if I really want to see new gear, I have always been able to do it with little problem.

All in all, I would say that it was worth the two hours (travel and a slight line).

Hope this helps.

B2 (;->

Olivier,

Please post some work here again. Forums like this helped me keep my mind sharp during an eight-month stint where I was recently out of work. While I disagree with Roger (read vehemently), I like to be challenged every so often to think about topics. This is a lot more fun than reading the OpEd pages in the papers. Perhaps because I feel more at home in photography that world politics.

Happy, Healthy, Safe and Prosperous New Year to you and everyone in the forum!!!

B2 (;->

Douglas (& Patrick),

Photography is a unique art form that is easily practiced by just about everyone, has dozens of different styles, continues to advance with technology, yet is extremely difficult to master. It can be a hobby, a profession, or just something to just capture the family and friends as they grow.

Many of the folks who hang out here have grown fond of tools from a particular manufacturer, Leica. At the point in time when they are designed, and in many cases for years after, these tools are if not the best, some of the best in the world.

When my father died almost twenty years ago, I was lucky enough to be given his cameras, my sister got all of his tools and some other stuff. She immediately turned around and sold off lots. Today, she wishes that she had kept most of it.

I got an old slide projector (Kodak) from my grandfather that I have, not because it is the best, but reminds me of him. It was his retirement gift when he left Kodak.

I got some great collect stuff from my father, and equally important some way cool users (e.g. Retina IIIc, Leica IIIa, Crown Graphic, Kodak 4x5 View). The first picture ever take of me was with the Retina IIIc, the first of my first-born was taken with the same camera.

Photography provides us with a view back into history and IMHO, there is no better tie than to use the same equipment over the generations to come.

As much as I love Digital, I know that silver will always be around, as is watercolors, oil, charcoal, and other artistic medium. We may loose Kodachrome this coming year, but we will never loose the memories it has captured.

Much of our thoughts and advice to Patrick are based upon our love of photography and hope that he will take his five year of experience and let it help, as photography has helped many of us, over his hopefully long and happy life.

Car depreciate and get into accidents, loans can be taken for school. IMHO, keep the wonderful gift, cherish the memories that have been captured by it, and make some more wonderful ones over the years with his family and friends.

Best Regards,

B2

Patrick,

Been kicking around photography for over 30 years. Went through most of high school with one type of camera or another in my hand (some times hands).

You system is priceless. Never never never never part with it. You may find better lenses, a fancier body, but what matters is you and the way you work with the tools. I found that my Leicas disappear in my hands, I do not think about the fact that they are there. They become instinctive, an extension of your hands, eyes and minds. I have used a lot of systems over the years, none have done this as well or as quickly as Leicas (both Ms and Rs).

My main system includes a 21, 35 and 90. While I have a 135, I do not carry it often, except for sports these days. I have owned one of just about every thing from 20 to 300 in the Nikon system and traded it all in on my Leica system.

Pick up a small digital light meter, perhaps a Gossen Digisix, a table tripod and small flash and you are set.

I love digital, but after eight different ones over seven years, I am going back to film. I miss the control of my M6, the speed of my lenses and HATE autofocus. My thought is to shot film and scan it in to print. Long term, someone will build a digital body that will take M lenses, be it Leica or CV. It is a huge market that someone with some brains will clean up on.

Do not worry about the features that other cameras have that are missing in the M4. The most important feature of any camera is your mind. Use it combined with this wonderful system and you are miles ahead of lot of other young photographers. Go to the library and barrow a few books on how to use Leicas (hold, load, etc.), shoot lots of film, share the results here, ask for feedback. But be true to yourself, look at what you shoot, around at what others do and develop your style.

Best of luck.

B2

Olivier,

IMHO

Technically very good, black blacks, white whites and good in-betweens. Good depth of field, a nice shot.

Artistically, initially, I wanted to see more of the feet, perhaps for balance, it just seemed cropped short. There may be a lot of people, birds and garbage there that would have ruined the picture. It is very easy to second-guess folks when you are not there.

Please do not let Roger stop you from exploring photography and different subject matter. Life is way too short to stop stretching and trying, some times you fail, other time, home runs. If you posted a shot of just the statue, no background, no nothing, then I would say, perhaps you are stepping across the line. You have added the juxtaposition of back ground reflections of buildings and sky. I am sure that some lawyer will say that you have crossed the line, but till you present both sides of the issue to a sitting judge, it is just supposition nothing more.

Great placement of the reflection of another building with the people looking up. I would give it a 7 (10 being great, 1, well, sub-optimal).

Was it a found picture (you happened upon) or a planned shot?

Thanks for sharing.

Best Regards,

B2

Bob,

I use good epoxy glue and some hockey tape to give it a better grip for my finders. Only down side is it is bigger than the original.

Have used this approach for years (Nikons, Leicas, Olympus), never a failure.

I can swap lenses very fast with only two hands!!

B2 (;->

Stefano,

If the built-in viewfinder (0.58) is a big deal for you, go new M6ttl. If you can live with the standard, M6 classic would be less expensive and every bit as good. While the features of the M7 are worth the increase in price for some, for your current style and approach they are of little value.

Please let us know what you choose and good luck.

Best Regards.

B2 (;->

Dave,

For a newbie, go to Ken. I live in NYC for over nine years. Purhcased a lot of equipment from lots of places, but Ken's shop was the best. I got treated very well. His folks spent time with me, gave me suggestions, ideas and recomendations that helped me. They saved me money by selling me good used stuff at a reasonable price. And stood behind the used stuff almost as good as the new stuff I got there.

You can find a better price, but you will not find better service before, during and after the sale.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

B2 (;->

Jeremy,

Very nice shot.

I�ve tried cropping it tighter, but the overall feel of the picture changes (read not as nice).

Some of the folks above say underexposed, I say it fits the mood perfectly.

I like the light background around her, but not over powering the picture.

Having two young ones (4 and 6) I know how hard it is to get this sort of shot. Worry not about finding the perfect location, take what you have and make the best out of it.

IMHO the best portraits are environmental, ones done where the subject is, in context of their life.

The perfect picture is one the communicates what the photographer is trying to say. How you use the tools at your disposal is part of the art and fun that is photography. Listen, question, think, but follow our heart to find your vision and style.

Capture the changes and the differences they grow up very very quickly.

Best Regards,

B2 (;->

Ed,

Sounds like a great project. My father-in-law has a simular blackhole of slides that would be great to do. In looking over your requirements, you missed something that Kelly started to do, backup.

I am not sure of the best way to do this, but I know I would not use tape. CDs are not big enough, DVDs? You need to be able to back up your system, and the data. Part of me says get an inexpensive PC with a lot of dasd (disk space) and back up your primary system to it. Long term,you need to look at burning DVDs.

Another thought is to look into using XML to export your data into a more universal format. I do not think that trying to keep everything (images and data) in one large database will work well, but I do not have any first hand experience with the software you are looking at. You might look at UDB (DB2 version) from IBM. I think that they have a single user version for Linux for free. That may have changed though.

You are building a wonderful thing that would be great to share with family members on CD or DVD if you can find/build the right software to export images and data in a way that you can view it from a DVD player.

Best of luck and let us know how you make out. I think a lot of folks out there have one or two of these in our families (I think I might be one and not know it!?!!?).

B2 (;->

I have been looking at the Microtek 4000. Anyone out there have any experience with one?

Thanks.

B2 (;->

Ralph,

The price seems way high for a user camera. If you want to get an M-series camera, like most of the other posts said, you would be very well served by an M7, M6TTL or an M6.

TTL metering give you a great starting point to work from, as you learn more or start to try new things. You need a good understanding of how metering works (18% subjects are hard to find), both books above are a great start. You need to know what you are metering and adjust from there to find what you feel is the perfect exposure. There is nothing wrong with just taking the recomendation.

Over the years I have had a large number of different types of meters, each very useful for specific styles of work. For most of what people shot with a M, the leica built in meter does a great job 99% of the time.

IMHO, Real photographers use the single most important tool of a photographer is their brain, filled with knowledge, experience and creativity. When the perfect tool is not available, real photographers use the tools at hand and still get the shot.

Find your vision, your style, learn what works for you. Watch others, ask questions, take classes, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.

Hope this helps.

B2 (;->

I am at a similar point, but with somewhat different variables.

I had a darkroom at the house I grew up in stored in my basement and garage. 7 foot sink, 4x5 enlarger, safelights, film dryer, the works. But, with two growing kids, an a job in computers (read even more stuff) I�m full and long to do something.

When I lived in NYC for 9 years, I missed the control that I had in my darkroom. I liked saying when I was happy with a print. I shot a lot of slides during that time, spent some money on prints, that looked great, but it was not the same.

You can have a fully functioning wet darkroom with almost no space. I had lot of friends over the years that made it work well. But without any current investment towards that end on your part, I would go with Option A.

I have been kicking the tires on the digital PHDs for about 8 years now and hate them. I am making the move back to the cameras that are a part of me. I am going to get a referb Epson 1280, some fancy continuous feed inks (www.inkjetmall.com), not sure on the scanner yet. I have a shelf or two down stairs where I can set up a film only wet area and I am back in the saddle. I can reuse the printer for stuff I do for work and volunteer stuff.

Shipping stuff off to the labs is just not the same. There are a lot of good ones out there, they cost a bit more, but they do no screw things up, ever. You get what you pay for in labs, no two ways about it.

Hope this helps.

B2 (;->

Charles,

The previous posts are right, the Bessa is not a Leica M, but it is a SUPER VALUE.

If I were starting over at this point, I would head that way first, get a Bessa R2, the lenses that I want/need and then perhaps move over the Leica body as money permits.

Bessa lenses test great and have nothing but rave reviews from their users. They are slower than the current Leica lenses, but faster than older Leica ones. They cost much less than good used Leica lenses if you can find them, and from a quality perspective, they are about equal to a generation ago Leica (20 yr) lenses. On the plus side, you have an extensive (read WAY COOL EXTENSIVE) range to pick from, much wider than the current Leica family. You need to purchase a LSM (Leica Screw Mount) to M (Leica Bayonet) adapter for each lens to use it on a R2 or a M, but you can get three for $100. I am currently longing for the 15mm, not quite sure why, but it seems very aggressively price from Cameraquest and is much wider than my 21. On the telephoto side, they do not have the range or anything ultra fast, but they are very reasonably priced and of good quality.

I suspect that the Bessa body is derived from the work Cosina did on the OM-2000 and I think the FM-10. While neither of these cameras were up to the standard of the OM-1 or the F2/3 (standing up to years of professional abuse), they are good cameras. Cosina (Mr. K and company) have developed some way cool accessories for the R and T line of cameras (rapid winder clone) and have some universally usable stuff that adds real value (e.g. great viewfinders, level, accessory shoe multiplier (hot shoe without the flash connection)).

Toby is right, walking down the street with a Leica, raises your target value with thieves. The Bessa does not come across the same way.

Fixing a Leica is not cheap, heck, CLA (Clean, Lube and Adjusting) a Leica can set you back $250. For a bit more you can get a new R2!?!

You can get a great system (R2, 15, 35, 75, winder, 3 M mount adapters) for around $1500 and be done. I spent that on a M4-P body alone years ago. I have not seen a lot of talk about putting tons of film through these bodies (heavy pro use), but my sense is that they should hold up well for many years. You can add a second body for just a bit more than a cleaning of your Leica.

I love my Leicas, they have a feel that I have found nowhere else. I was lucky enough to get my system when I had not kids, my wife and I both had well paying jobs and the economy was strong. Today, two kids, a wife who does not work, I would get an the system listed above, a flash and be very happy. I do not carry my Ms around because my kids are young (4 and 6) and accidents happen. I will start using them again, in a few years (3 or so), but for now, no way. I have been researching the CV world and have been very impressed.

The next film camera I buy will be a Bessa. The next lens (or three) will be CV with some adapters. New Leica glass is the best in the world, but not earing money with my cameras any more, makes me question if I need that level of quality. Today, the answer is no, I need to pay for college for the kids.

Everything I have read leads me to say buy from Cameraquest if you go on-line. Run some tests, try everything and if you have a problem, let them know ASAP. He seems to be a great person who makes things right the first time. I have yet to buy from him, but I will. He seems honest and experienced.

Best of luck. Hope this helps.

B2 (;->

Glen,

How much did you get charged for CLA by the Leica folks over in NJ?

On one body, my fast shutter speeds are slow, on another my slow are slow. I was told that they take out the shutter, clean it out and re-lub it. Just wondering how much to expect to pay from Leica for this magic.

Thanks.

B2 (;->

I started taking pictures when I was 3, growing up in Rochester, with Dad being a photographer for Kodak for all his life, not sure I had a choice. One year at Scout camp, using an old KoniRapid III, I came back with better pictures than an Asst. Scout Master using a Leicaflex SL. Positive reinforcement worked well and I was bit. Got deeper into in Jr. High, used my fathers III, a mooly and a 135 to shoot a soccer game and we (ok, my dad mostly) built a dark room. Saved my money and freshman year got a Nikkormat FTn with an 85 f1.8, saved some more and added a 24 f2.8 and then a Vivitar 200 f3.0. I went through the next three years with that camera in my hand. I was luck enough to use every format from disc to 4x5 and had a ball. Was named photographer of the year the first two years of the award by the Empire State School Press Association. Senior year I cleaned up at a local art show for high school kids. Did not have good enough grades to get into Newhouse or Missouri (top two PJ schools at that time) so ended up going to school for data processing (business and computers).

Got married, moved to NYC and got a job programming, and added to my income with photography. Weddings, assisting, when you making $11,500 with a wife in school, every extra $15 helps. NYC is a great place to take pictures of everything, people, buildings, events, and I did. Luckily, computers started to pay more and my wife (read now Ex-wife) started to work. I took a few classes IPC, went to all the galleries and museums that I could, shot tons of chromes, joined a photography club, had fun with photography.

After coming back from vacation with a camera bag almost as big as my suitcase, I had enough. I wanted something small, quiet, that I could count on no matter what. I sold all the new stuff and got a M4P, 35 and 90 F2. A few years later I added a winder, an M6 and a new 21.

Today, 14 years after moving to Chicago, a new wife (for me version 2.0 is much better), two sons, I was been bitten by the digital bug. I miss the control, the simplicity, and the elegance of working with my Ms or even my Nikkormat. I am working on a plan that may bring this sort of digital camera to market, partially because I really believe it has a market, partially to keep my mind active (8 months out of work).

For me, photography has everything. I love stuff, tinkering with things, getting them to work, and God knows, photography has stuff. I love creating things and sharing my creations. I love working with and meeting new people. I love sharing my knowledge, my approaches and experience. Photography gives me a tie back to my farther (many years past), sort of tradition. Photography makes me feel good on many different levels. Hope it does you too!!

B2 (;->