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I remember reading somewhere that a good assistant should be able to take over for the photographer at any time. If you work with an assistant, keep that in mind and if you do assisting, keep that in mind.

The networking thing can work too. Not a bad idea to have a few good amateur photographers in your circle who you can ask to assist and then ask to step up if need be.

Often tho, we work no matter what....

Because you are building a portfolio to show to others and (perhaps) put on a website, you need a model release at the very least.

Regardless of the price, a signed agreement is a good idea. It allows both parties to have in writing what is, or is not, expected.

I believe that "agreement" is a better term to use here than a contract because it is my understanding that for a contract to be valid there has to be "non performance" clauses in it.

Commonly, when $$ changes hands, the non performance clause means that if the service provider does not perform, the money paid them is returned while if the purchaser of those services does not perform (wedding cancelled at the last minute) the money paid is kept by the contractor.

The problems for the photographer arise when the person purchasing the services believes that the service provided does not live up to the terms of the contract and decides that the $$ being returned is inadequate to cover the "damages" by non performance. Insurance then kicks in to cover the contractor if the courts find that he did not perform.

Is insurance necessary? I believe so. If you own a business where you can get sued for damages beyond your ability to pay and could lose your house, you need insurance.

For example.. say you shoot weddings on the side and you, the photogapher, decide to take the wedding party to a nearby park for pictures. One of the brides maids slips while walking down the path to the photo spot and shatters her ankle (oh yeah, it CAN happen) and it turns out she has no health coverage. You can bet you, as the photographer, will get named in the law suit AND if it turns out the whole business of going to that park was your idea, you WILL get found partially responsible for damages (park will also be named in the suit as well as the bride and groom).

In New York where there are NO limits on liability and where no one is EVER responsible for their own actions, you don't want to set yourself up w/o insurnace.

I have had experience in being named as a negligent party as part of a lawsuit. Fortunately, the Judge threw out the part against my business (not photography) but if he had not, I would have lost EVERYTHING.. my business, my home, my savings EVERYTHING even tho, IMO, I had nothing to do with the injuries. When it goes to court it can be a real crap shoot.. I have seen some pretty amazing decisions that fly in the face of the facts!

This is reality and it is not conjuring up fear. It is first hand experience.

In perusing this entire thread (again) I just did a little math.. and if gas is $2.50 a gallon (in NY it can be that and more) that means that $147 gas bought 58.8 gallons and if you drive 950 miles.. that is 16 MPG... I want to stand up and shout, "What the heck are you driving?? What ever it is, it is eating up your profits and we haven't even gotten to maintenance and insturance!"

The motel was also real expensive considering the price charged.

Just in perusal what Stacy needs to do (IMO.. which is worth what you pay) is take a real hard look at the supply side of this business equation. This is all part of the learning process when starting a wedding photography business. You have to know what your expenses are every time you go to sign a job.

If you are going to do business with the end of the market she is currently seeking, you got to have a very cheap to run car (like one getting 35 MPG, 4 cylinder and all paid for so it has over 100k miles on it) and be looking at Motel 6 for over night stays....

I understand moving was in there (and for all I know the move was dictated by day job move of her or someone in her family) but I think that this whole scenario should be a lesson for every photographer starting out.

You need to get enough money for the work. You need to get enough money to cover expenses before you even leave the house to shoot the wedding.

The car costs are a big item and need to be deducted from the gross income as do any other items such as FICA (15%) and income taxes. Somewhere in that equation there ought to be business insurance and remember that car insurance is part of car costs...

I am sure that a lot of the newbies in this business don't take a real hard look at the costs involved that are NOT camera and camera equipment related. They see that they can get $600 or $700 for a weekend of work and it seems like "wow" but it really is not. In fact, if you have skills and you put a value on those skills and on your time, that $600-$700 can be a break even proposition.

I am glad that Stacy made this post tho I am sorry she had to have this experience. This is a great lesson in the business side of wedding photography.

Standard equipment in the camera bag. Use them every event.

If the DJ is obnoxious be sure to insert the plugs when he cranks up....

:)

You are getting the idea Stacy. You ARE a smart self reliant woman!

8 weeks seems excessive but you know what? why not!

Just put the $$ in escrow in case you have to return it for some reason (I do this.. no matter how much I need that $$ I hold it in the bank until after the proofs etc. are delivered!).

If you cannot absorb this loss, what is that telling you? It is saying you are charging too marginal a profit and price! You are a smart self reliant woman and there is a message in this! Take the emotion out of this for a minute (very hard to do) and look at it from a third party perspective.

No one is chastising you (not I anyway and I am sorry and apologize if you see it thusly). Just trying to save you additional grief on this.

I have been in similar circumstances and you got to believe me.. even if you win in court you may not ever get the money!!! You surely will spend more of yours in the process (both time and cash). Sometimes winning the battle can end up losing the war!

You posted a bad situation here asking for advice and most ppl do not agree with your proposed action. Maybe.. you could be wrong? Personally I hate being wrong but it does keep me humble....

If you believe in your heart and soul you have the answer and that answer is not what you are reading here, why are you asking?

I know this is upsetting to you and I sure understand what it is like to lose money (I was a full time dairy farmer for 20 years). However, losses are part of business. If you chase this you MIGHT get the balance and you will surely spend more money whether you do or not. Small Claims Court is no guarantee as there is no recourse if they agree to pay and then do not. Been there and done that.

For a few years, and even on occaision now, I shot weddings for ppl who were really hard up for money. I have seen them go into the gift box or the funds from the "dollar dance" to pay the DJ and to pay me at the wedding. After doing this a few times I decided that I needed a customer foundation that would be more able to pay me before the event. My business and staying in business needed a better paying foundation. I did not want to be mean, but I could not rely on an income from folks who really were pretty strapped to begin with. Also, I was working twice as hard for half as much money and that made NO sense either.

You are in business and, unfortunately, loss is as much a part of business as profit is. It doesn't matter if it is a client backing out of their contracted responsibilities or if it is a Cow that dies calving.. it is all part of loss and you have to account for this in your business plan.

Does it make you angry? Oh you bet it does! Can you fix it? Often not that particular loss, but you can certainly fix your business practices to prevent recurring losses in the future. You have already stated that you will do this.

I understand your compassion for the less than financially well off bride and her family, but this is BUSINESS. In the end, as much as pictures count, business counts more.

There are a lot of very good photographers out taking photos who can't sell their work because they are bad at business. On the other hand, there are a lot of medicore photographers who are excellent business managers who make a very good living with photography.

What happened to you really really stinks. However, this is business and this sort of thing happens in this business. Sometimes, no matter how angry you are, you have to roll with the punches and accept your loss.

A bitter lesson is learned here. I am sorry.

First of all you are charging too little (especially with gas at $2.40 a gallon.. at least it is in NY!) to go so far. If you are establishing a portfolio then I can understand the price.

For that little money payment should be made 14 business days prior to the event so that the check HAS cleared.

Again, you are out of luck. There is no point in hounding the bride.. she is having enough misery in her life. Can you IMAGINE what this must be like for her? And the groom.. he must have some serious issues to cancel.

As aggravating as this is, just let it go. There is no need to add to these ppl's misery (or your own). In fact, if the Bride paid for the wedding, I would refund the $$ even tho that is probably not the agreement. It will do far more for YOUR future and YOUR reputation to do this or to at least just let it go.

Learn from it. Charge more if you are going that far (lesson one) and get the $$ ahead (lesson two).

Every photographer I know has sample albums in their studio that are from real weddings that were never picked up (and often not paid in full for) because the marriage ended before the honeymoon did.

Move on.. if this was an easy business everyone would do it.

One photographer I have worked with does not allow video taping of the formals. Period. He makes this clear to the B&G and to the videographer b4 hand. I like that policy for a variety of reasons.

Try to get along, but before the shoot talk to the customer about your concerns. I have seen it where working with a videogrpaher has been a joy and other times when it has been a misery.

Try the discuss it forst so everyone understands what the customer expects and how to each do their job w/o getting in the other's way.. and if that doesn't work a quick stomp to the instep often gets their attention (just kidding).

"There's way too much detail to go into here, these things are quite complicated when you really look into them, aren't they?"

They can be. I suggest you stop where you are and just go and do the job. Watch your settings. That is a biggy. Meter the light and check your white balance if you are digital.

You KNOW this stuff, but under pressure this is the stuff that gets away from you. CHECK YOUR SETTINGS.

Don't make the thing over complicated.. it is a wedding, not the design criteria for a dual span 120 foot bridge with a curve and a 30 degree skew!

Did I mention checking your settings?

When you educate them as to their infringement, make sure the check has cleared and there is no more $$ to be made from sale of albums etc.

yes.. it is a clear infringement or it would be in the contract I use. This is discussed prior to any phtos being taken.

Personally, I might mention it, but my sales do not depend heavily on this sort of work.

Shoot reversal film for awhile (where there is no correcting by anyone after you push the shutter) and you will quickly learn what is right or wrong and what works and what does not. I was taught on reversal film by a very knowlegeable and tough critic. Shoot B&W silver film and processing it and printing was easy after reversal film. I still shoot reversal film a lot.

If you do a bad enough job or something goes wrong enough no lab and no photoshop can fix it.

Get it right at the camera. Get it right at the shutter release.

The trick to using film (and digital too, actually) is to expose it and frame it correctly the first time IN the camera.

Then you eliminate "fixing it after." fixing it after... especially a LOT of fixing it after, just means you still have a lot to learn about your equipment and how to take good photographs.

The control is always yours. Know your equipment. Understand the abilities of your capture medium (regardless if it is digital or film), understand lighting and understand composition. Take the picture and produce it. No need for a lot of post processing and post exposure control. If you are taking consistantly under exposed or over exposed photos you best learn how to fix that b4 you take the next photographs.

Knowing what you will get when you press the button is what it is all about.. not fixing the image after you pressed the button at the "wrong" time.

The creative control is with the photographer when he presses the shutter release. If the image isn't exposed, framed, focused or composed properly, then the photographer isn't knowledgeable enough and needs to go back and visit the learning curve.

A good pro lab, be it digital imagery or film imagery, is very important to the final results. The kid at the one hour photo place making $6.50 an hour is not a good pro lab..... tho he may be a real nice kid!

The problem is that film cannot (and digital cannot either) deal wtih so many stops of difference between the lights and the darks. Expose for the faces as they are what make the pictures. You will end up, in this scenario, having to compromise either the highlights or the shadow details. this is negative film, so expose for the shadows is the rule of thumb.. you will probably end up with details in the shadows and the right skin tones.

If shooting digital you xpose for the highlights as digital capture behaves similar to reversal film. You will likely lose details in the shadows which will show nosie as you bring up the exposure there.

The paper the images are printed on has even less ability than the film to deal with so many stops of difference in the subject. As said above, the printing can make a HUGE difference. Dodging and burning can help, but in the end, what is captured is the record you are dealing with.

What can be captured on film (or a compact flash card) and printed on paper is not as great in range as what the human eye can see.

Dang Steve...

Beat me to the punch line. :)

Jerry, I think you will do OK at this wedding.

While many here do not use a flash bracket, I believe it is a pretty important piece of equipment for flash photography. So, I suggest a flash bracket (like a stroboframe quick flip.. which will do the job, is inexpensive and light).

I would also have on hand a monopod and/or a tripod. You may not need either one, but if you do and don't ahve it, it can be a bother.

Read Zeltsman's free lessons on posing and lighting.

http://www.msnusers.com/Asktheoleproaboutphotography/joezeltsman.msnw

Go to traditional photographer websites and look at the pictures and learn how to frame ppl (think how many shots are vertical and how many are horizontal and when and why).

Go to the wedding PJ style photographer websites (Brooks Whittington, Bambi Cantrell, Rick Rosen, and others you see here in this forum) and look at their work and become inspired.

Good luck.

Do I read into this Marc that you are looking to get married again just so you can hire Jeff and Mary?

(Just teasing). ;-)

One of the highest end guys down where I used to live gets calls from the $500 (not $50) bride. He tells them that he will do the job for $500.. which single hour would they like covered? NEVER turn down work is his motto, let the client decide!

You will always get calls from that end of the spectrum if you are in the phone book or yellow pages.. and you are going to be in the phone book.

No matter how nice the wedding show, there will still be the budget brides. They are often not bad ppl, just ppl who are not making huge $$ and they go to wedding shows where it quickly becomes obvious to them that there is a broad spectrum of services at widely varying prices that reflect the depth and quality of that service.

You have to be doing this awhile to build a referral only type of business.. and every time you make a substantial price increase, you have to rebuild that referral business with a different clientel.

As to the business "dying" I think it has to do with what you are offering and doing. I also believe that competition in some areas of the country is vastly different than in others. Parts of the market may be sufering while other parts are booming.

Glad to hear your part of it is doing well.

I agree that booking two weddings in a day is pretty difficult, but if you are getting an hour of formals (Steve's story) and then a full book and it seems there is enough time in between, then it SEEMS reasonable to do.

The reason for a double booking is purely financial and, while Marc has indicated he has what seems to be an excellent day job (both interesting AND good pay), not all the pro's here DO have day jobs (or ones that pay well).

I do agree that when a venue runs late and you (the photographer) get a 15 minute window for formals as opposed to the 45 minutes to an hour you had originally scheduled, that IS unacceptable. We also try to make up for it at the reception, but it is usually not the same (mostly due to alcohol consumption and/or no real nice backgrounds at the party hall).

In this area there are catering halls that have a wedding booked at 1PM and a second wedding booked for 6PM.. and they cannot cut anyone slack who is excessively late! they can't because the room has to be prepared for the next party at their allotted time.

As a result the time that gets stolen is USUALLY the photographer's time. The first time this happens to you it makes you realize you need to get real territorial (which is not the same as unpleasant) about YOUR time to do YOUR job.

It is absolutely the Bride's day. If she or anyone in her party, run very very late, it will show in the photographs. when it happens we usually mention this three times to them, one of those times being before they have had too much to drink (if possible) and the last time being when we leave for the day!

To quote a Great Wedding Photographer I know:

"If this was easy, everyone would do it...."

:)

I would love to see it with the veil out of focus (more) and the brides face (especially the eyes) more IN focus.

Portrait lens with an 8X10 view camera this is real possible to do.

A change of shirts (in case of spills). A change of clothes (in case of spills).

Water, pain killers, ear plugs (ALWAYS protect your ears at receptions.. some of those DJ's can blast the decibals), energy bar, change of shoes/socks...

Good luck.

If you have one, try a few shots with a fish eye lens from a ladder vantage point.

Good luck!