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You know, I used to shoot Jpegs. Then I got into shooting RAW and it was much closer to shooting Medium format. I could not believe the difference and the detail and all of that. RAW just gives you so much more picture for your effort.

I never cared one way or t'other then I tried t'other way. It is a little more work to fiddle with RAW but the results are, IMO, so much better.

If I really want good results, I still shoot Medium Format Film. The only thing better for detail is large format. I will tout Medium format over 35 mm and I will tout RAW over Jpegs and I do so in both instances for the same reason.. more information on the capture medium.

Then again, I do a lot of other work besides weddings where enlargement of the image is important to me.

If you want to shoot jpegs, go ahead. Carry on. Watever.

I do suggest you fiddle around a bit with RAW and see for yourself what you get. I did.

I didn't pay attention to the # of shots and the size of the card. Regardless of how much you shot on this job or whether or not the bride was happy, you need to shoot RAW.

You have all this great equipment and you might as well shoot with a P&S if you are going to shoot Jpegs!!!!

From what you are saying if sounds like you had 'em covered for shots etc. A list is good but you absolutely have to have a person who knows the ppl at the wedding go and round up the folks on the list or you won't know who you need to get. I use the best man and maid of honor for these jobs, if I can.

But really and serioulsy, you do need to shoot RAW, fix and convert to TIFF and when it is all said and done you can compress 'em into Jpegs.

This shot would likely be a keeper but it could be improved. Shoot vertical with only two ppl in the shot.

Turn her a little to her right so her body is not quite so perpendicular to the camera and this will eliminate the wrinkles in her neck (and add grace to her look).

Quite honestly if you get two or three WOW!!! shots in any wedding you are doing very well. A lot of the work is quite repetitive because the scenario is. You will get the same shots week after week (even PJ shots) with different players. It is hard work to find the unique in a play which often follows the same script but with different actors.

The truly great photographers in this business are great for a reason. I am not one of them and I am wise enough to know this.

ALWAYS take formals of the immediate family and before you are done with those formasl ALWAYS ask if the bride/groom have any requests. Adopt it as part of your routine.

You can shoot the family etc. during the alter returns or at the reception. If you shoot Mom and Dad, Grandparents and family at the alter returns do so first and cut 'em loose to get to the cocktail hour.

You are offering too much for the $$ you charge. The wedding and DVD should be $1500 (or more) alone. Albums are extra IMHO.

What camera you use and what lenses you use and how much you paid for them are important only to you. The customer only wants results.

The problem here is that you have too many stops of difference between the highlights and the shadows. Film or digital capture cannot handle what the eye can see. This photo needs the contrast reduced. The light on her veil is completely blown out and the shadow on her face is too dark. The capture media cannot handle it all and tends to expose for the middle.

You can reduce the contrast by adding flash (to fill the shadows) or decrease the highlights by shooting in the shade. Shooting in the shade is recommended and this is a good example of why. However, when shooting candid photos (PJ if you will) you cannot have 'em do it over in the shade, so you have to add fill light with flash. Flash is intrusive and if it alters the candid nature of the shot then the candid nature of the image is ruined. Of course the third alternative is to recognize the lighting and issues and NOT TAKE THE PHOTO. Not taking a shot is a perfectly acceptable solution.

As to composition the post/frame coming out of his head bothers me but it might not be so eye drawing if you could see her expression.

Digital media is like shooting reversal film. You expose for the highlights. In this case, if you had exposed for the highlight on the veil, the rest of the photo would be so dark as to be indiscernable.

Great experience tho wasn't it?

I learned how to ride horseback and my first horse show brought me down out of the clouds too. I was 13 at the time. A bit of humble pie does one of two things:

You throw your hands in the air and quit (I would NOT suggest this).

You go back home and get advice and work like hell with a winner until you are one too. I do advise this second approach!

Good luck and keep on posting so we can keep harassing you until you are better than all of us and making twice as much $$.

At that point we will be asking YOU for advice. ;)

BTW I forgot to mention.. the photo attachment with the girls in blue? It does not make the cut. One girl on the end has her eyes shut and so goes right to the cutting room floor.

This is why you always take two images of every posed shot.

If this had been taken with flash inside there would have been shadows on the wall behind the girls.. they should be brought out away from the wall.

You will need at least two cameras. I use film cameras for back up and because I think film gives a nicer presentation in some instances. Film is expensive but not as expensive as the better digital cameras. A D70 is a consumer grade camera. You might want to look at a Fuji S3 at the very least. A full frame sensor is real nice, but then you will lay out really big bucks.

Do you know how to shoot manually? You will need to. Putting the camera in "P" mode (and I am not saying you do this) and banging away will not give you consistant results. It also does not work well in many situations. You need to know your equipment.

You need to shoot RAW with any Digital SLR and then have a good 'puter and Photoshop at home so you can tweak and convert the images to TIF or Jpg at the VERY end. You will need a monitor calibration spyder.

What do you have for flash equipment? You need to learn how to use flash and balance it with ambient and all of the things that flash can and cannot do.

You will need lenses and these you may have. I do a lot of work with non zoom lenses. It is interesting how much that standard 50mm lens does to this day.

You also need to learn both PJ and formal styles.. something about both. Fact is, most PJ weddings still have some formal posed shots in the album. You will eventually find yourself gravitating towards one style more than the other but you need both.

You really ought to work for a wedding photographer as an assistant for awhile. Weddings are stressful and they can be fun. Shooting a wedding can become easier with time, but when a lot of serious stuff goes wrong it can be a truly miserable experience. This is especially so when you have not done any or many, have inadequate back up equpiment and the crowd starts to fuss because they have been (or want to get to) drinking.

See if you can get some time in with a pro before you become a pro.

Shooting weddings for fun is one thing. Doing it for money or for a living is a whole 'nother matter.

Proceed but do so with knowledge and rely on learning thru the experience of a pro, if you can. What you did here was acceptable I suppose, but it is not a large enough sample to judge.

Last but not least, remember this is a BUSINESS. As such, you best know how to handle taxes, an expense sheet and figure out your profits should you have any. It makes no sense to photograph anything for money if, in the end, you don't charge enough and the job costs you more than you make.

I am late on this but I would dump it and learn from it which you have.

A touch of flash would have sharpened this right up as you have noted indirectly. If no flash was allowed during the ceremony and it was dark.. there are these times when you cannot get a shot.

Only the best go to the client, no matter how cute. This is one that got away, as stated previously.

If you want to get shots like this why not offer a studio session in the parents home with the grandparents present? You can give a discount if you want to do it badly enough.

Personally I have found such decisions to be bad business strategy; either keeping/releasing a bad image due to technical issues or giving a discount on my services.

"I'm just on a limited budget and if I can save money..."

What you said and what I predicted from the initial post.

I agree with what Ryan said. Someone will do this for you, but not anyone who is concerned about the outcome (and will they also be concerned about your photos?).

I like the idea of the UConn or Holyoke etc. class project. You also might contact a local photography club and offer the same thing allowing the members to retain their photos for their portfoilos but providing you with the RAW files.

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding.

Casey:

A perfect example of why PJ wedding photography is really more of a personal story board.

IF that is the Groom's head, then the angle should be different and the Bride and her father closer so as to capture expression. This photo would be good if the B&G were closer and you could see the grooms face. The photo of the bride walking down the aisle is a separate photo when they are this far away and they should then be the subject. In fact, in thsi photo there seems to be an xchange going on between the Father and his daughter that would make a super photo if that were the only subject.

I suspect the photogrpaher ahs taken other photos of this sequence that showed expressions and faces where this one could still be culled?

Nice.

Two critiques.

The one where her Father is walking her down the aisle you have the back of some guys head on the left side of the frame. He has become ths subject in this hot. You have to get IN the aisle for this shot, not stand to one side (and yes, ppl WILL look at you). Cull this photo and do not give it to the bride (I would anyway).

The one in the limo looks over xposed and she is two flat/square to the camera.

Other than that a good first effort.

Press on....

I wouldn't do it with what you have in both described experience and equipment.

I see you are a new member today.

How did you hear about Photo Net?

Shoot both. Film is easier.

It may someday become a marketing niche. Did have one bride ask if film was being used. She had seen horror weddings from digital.

A tool, regardless of the subject, is only as good as its user.

Film is easier. Better results IMO, equal costs, more time off.

Digital is instant. You gotta like computers to get the results you want.

Zeltsman's lessons:

http://www.msnusers.com/Asktheoleproaboutphotography/joezeltsman.msnw

The clothing and styles are dated. The information is not.

My only critiques are as follows:

Try to learn more about posing. Avoid having the bride stand square to the camera (45 degrees is best). Read Zeltsman's free lessons.

Sometimes it is not possible but try to get photos in the shade or back lit.

I did not find anything here that was truly outstanding, but the photos do the job and tell the story.

I would look at some other's work that you admire and attempt to incorporate some of those poses and shots into your work (you start by copying others and end by having others copying YOU).

Every wedding (almost every wedding) has time constraints. The time between the ceremony and the reception is the time the photographer has. When that gets shortened by things running late, guess who has to hurry like mad and still get great photos.. yup, the photographer.

Marc:

You are correct. The customer wants the results.

I guess I feel as you do... if the stuff came out of the camera in jpeg format as good as film, no one would bother with RAW.

What bothers me, and what I have been seeing, are prices being charged for aged filet mignon and production more like Store Brand multi meat hot dogs! :)

Funny thing in this is that even when I do a job for hot dog prices (sometimes I do this), I still will go to the effort of RAW and all of that because beyond the money and the the expectations of the customer are MY expectations.

If I did not set these so high I could save a pile of time and even more money on equipment... computers..

Oh nutz.. I was just outside taking pictures of water drops and flowers and my cat and even those are RAW. In fact, I am liking what I see so much I am going BACK out and doing some with (gasp!!) film.

You can buy an 8 megapixel point and shoot and get the same results as you do with a DSLR if you are going to shoot jpegs. Why not save your self even MORE time and just get one of those deals where you mount the Point and Shoot on top of the printer and make your wedding prints with that???

Shooting RAW means you have a lot more to work with. It is like shooting medium format vs using a Kodak disc camera (y'all remember the disc camer by Kodak now don't you?). :)

"..when shooting hundreds of photos to cover a wedding.." tells me that perhaps you should use film for part of your work. We do. Some here do. Some here shoot all film still. No post processing on the computer that way.

But, if you are going to shoot digital exclusively and you are going to charge well to do so, you should be shooting RAW and dealing with the computer to do it. It is what you are getting paid for?

I don't see how Gary.

In New York State you can work as an engineer for 12 years with increasing responsibility and, if those you have worked for will attest to it, you can sit for the first half of the P.E. without formal academic education. Seen it done. Not easy!

In North Carolina (a friend who is licensed there told me this) if you do work as a professional engineer but without a license for 20 years you can get your PE without a test!

The fly in the ointment is that it has to pass the scrutiny of the State Board and you must get those over you to sign off on your work.

Same for the Licensed surveyor, only the time frame is 8 years.

The test requires you learn the academics to pass it but it does not require that learning to be in a formal academic setting (such as college).

This has gone WAY off topic, which was that in order to be regarded as a professional you do need to spend time learning the profession, regardless of what that profession is.

You can take money for your work as an apprentice, but you must be working under the guidance of a journeyman while doing so. If you do not have an organization which requires an apprenticeship or licensure then it may be up to you as an individual to pursue the knowledge and skill level required to be considered a professional, regardless of the profession.

Sadly it seems that in photography there are not a few people who think they can "just do it" and charge for their services with little or no knowledge. Then when they get in trouble they don't have the background to either repair the situation or head it off before it happens (or even while it is happening).

In New York State you can utilize experience in lieu of education to be a professional licensed engineer. This is from the New York State Department of Education site. http://www.op.nysed.gov/article145.htm

It isn't EASY to go this path, but you can still do it.

7206. Requirements for a license as a professional engineer.

2. In lieu of the degree and experience requirements specified in subparagraphs (2) and (3) of subdivision one of this section, twelve years of practical experience in work satisfactory to the board may be accepted, provided that each full year of college study in engineering satisfactory to the department may at the discretion of the board be accepted in lieu of two years of the required twelve years of experience.

To be a professional in many areas does not require formal academic training. However, an adequate time being an apprentice before becoming a journeyman is often necessary to achieve a level of expertise.

In the US you can become a licensed professional Engineer with no college. You best learn and learn well or you will never pass either of the required engineering exams for that license. You also best show increasing levels of responsibility to get into the exam.

Other professions can likewise be pursued with varying levels of either academic training or experience training or a combination of the two.

No two professions are equal. Certainly the profession of medical doctor requires vastly differnt skills and education than the profession of beautician. Regardless, both require time spent learning the trade before they can be licensed (and both do require licensure in New York State).

This post was started to make people think a bit. Look before you leap. Learn what you are jumping into before jumping and taking money to do so.

Steve's question of "What First" suggesting that beginning photographers

entering the wedding photography profession should start by learning their

camera. No wiser words said!

However, before even that there is the question of profession and professional.

Even if you are taking money and do this part time, you are acting as a

professional in the profession of (wedding) photography.

From Miriam Webster:

Take special note of all of number 4

Main Entry: pro�fes�sion

Pronunciation: pr&-'fe-sh&n

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English professioun, from Old French profession, from Late

Latin & Latin; Late Latin profession-, professio, from Latin, public

declaration, from profitEri

1 : the act of taking the vows of a religious community

2 : an act of openly declaring or publicly claiming a belief, faith, or opinion

: PROTESTATION

3 : an avowed religious faith

4 a : a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and intensive

academic preparation b : a principal calling, vocation, or employment c : the

whole body of persons engaged in a calling

Note especially above the "calling requiring specialized knowledge and often

LONG AND INTENSIVE ACADEMIC PREPARATION.

And beyond profession there is the business of being or acting as a professional.

Main Entry: 1pro�fes�sion�al

Pronunciation: pr&-'fesh-n&l, -'fe-sh&-n&l

Function: adjective

1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of

the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical

or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous,

conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace

2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor

often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular

profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by

persons receiving financial return <professional football>

3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional

patriot>

If you are new to wedding photography or new to photography and to wedding

photography you do need to spend significant time learning your equipment and

photography as well as wedding photography. Please follow the profession and

then, when you have learned the speicalized knowledge required, by all means "go

professional."

In other words, pay your dues before collecting them....

Are you shooting RAW or Jpg?

If you are shooting Jpg's and then adjusting them, you will get more nosie than you will if you shoot RAW and then adjust etc.

Garden wedding at a National Historic site. VATS (Vehicle Anti Theft System) quit on the car (it would not recognize EITHER key) and car would not start.

Had to hitch a ride to the Reception (and NO the B&G would NOT let me ride in the Limo) and had to get the car towed.

It all worked out and the pictures were very nice. If there had no been two of us working I have no idea how this would have worked out.

We believe in having backups along but a back up car along is not the norm!

What I did see was nice. You might want to check out Rick DeLorme's site. He uses no on camera flash and his lighting is quite dramatic. While not everyone's cup of tea, it is interesting and he does it well.

Your website is really difficult for dial up users. Just takes 4 ever.

I am a dial up user because until recently we did not have cable service here and, now that we do, the price will blow your sox off.

I have heard it said by photographers that if their brides cannot afford cable internet service, then they probably cannot afford their prices. Remember, Cable Service is not available every where and there are those of adequate means who cannot get it. Then there are those, like myself, who find better ways to spend the money.