david11

"David, why don't you just be happy with what you are using ?

 

Most of my statements are facts, they are unshakable and difficult to undermine."

 

 

Joseph, I am indeed happy with the 75 Summilux for the photographic tool that it is. I probably will eventually acquire a 75 Summicron, for its picture taking abilities are certainly different from the Summilux.

 

I think you misrepresent the opinions of Stuart Richardson regarding the 75 Summilux when you refer to a "love hate relationship". In numerous postings, Mr. Richardson states that his Summilux is one of his favorite lenses that he favors for its portrait making abilities. His only criticisms which refer to size, weight, and handling are the same negatives that I acknowledge above. Nowhere in the photo.net archives have I been able to find any user of the 75 Summilux to agree that the bokeh of this lens has "broken glass like sharp edges". Joseph, you do not have to agree with me about the effectiveness of the 75 Summilux ( and I do certainly acknowledge that bokeh is a topic of subjectivity ), but I resent your mis-characterization of its capabilities. Your statements concerning this fine lens are incorrect, even laughable; and especially irksome from someone who has no experience with the Summilux.

Lastly, the Noct. Far from it being its best at f/1.0 as is generally held, it optimizes at f/8.0. Wow man.

 

I don't know anyone who believes that the Noctilux cannot be improved by stopping down from F1, or why you embrace this "generally held" opinion. Virtually every lens improves by stopping down several stops, Leica lenses included. Yes, Leica lenses are better than most wide open, but even they benefit by stopping down.

Blake, I have an M6 TTL .58 camera that I bought to use with my 28 Summicron (my other cameras are .85 viewfinder M6 TTLs). The .58 works great with the 28 Summicron, but I find that I favor this camera with my 35 Summicron ASPH lens. The 35 frame lines in the .58 camera are alone - not intruded upon by other frame lines. I can use all of my lenses with this camera, but believe that this camera is tailor made for use with a 35mm lens. All of the Leica 35s of any vintage are good lenses; most would agree that the "best" are the current ASPH lenses. But, if you can come across a good deal on a used vintage lens, by all means you should consider it. With a budget of $1500, you should be able to get a new/like new 35 Summicron ASPH lens. With proper care, this camera/lens combination should serve you well for many years.

So I am responding to this guy Joseph Wang.

 

Why be so critical of a lens that you have never used? On the basis of graphs and web photos?

 

"The photos from this lens showed the bokeh has broken glass like sharp edges."

 

Where did you see the photos? Oh yeah, on a monitor. ROTFLMAO

 

I can think of reasons you would not want the Summilux: size, weight, handling; but not inferior bokeh. I know of no one who actually uses the 75 Summilux that would ever characterize the bokeh in this manner. The 75 Summilux is a much better lens than you describe.

Of course, it does come with a Leicavit:)

Could be real, but will probably be sold for a fortune if it is good shape. Check out this original MP, that is listed on Ebay. Note minimum bid of $22,000.

 

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/393-Leica-MP-262-with-Leicavit-MP-Rapid-Winder_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ28221QQitemZ6586773838QQrdZ1

"The photos from this lens showed the bokeh has broken glass like sharp edges."

 

If you are saying that the OOF area of the 75 Summilux is unattractive, then I seriously doubt that you have used this lens. The images created by the Summilux are so very smooth, and sharp at the same time. It is for this reason that I doubt Leica will discontinue the lens. I am not doubting the abilities of the Summicron; the new 75 appears to utilize the latest lens technology to optimum advantage.

Absolutely, the 28 is different than the 35. The question is will it be different enough for you? With only a .85 viewfinder leica you will have to use a separate viewfinder, and although doable, may not be to your liking. I find that since getting a .58 viewfinder camera, I really enjoy 35 AND 28 more than ever. And this from a .85 camera lover. I use a 28 Summicron, and what a great lens it is. I also use the 21 ASPH quite a bit; it is the one lens that I use that doesn't "look" like any other - and when you need it, you need it. I really love the Leica wides. And the normals. And the longs. Whew.

Up until recently, I would have answered 50mm focal length. But I now also use the .58 viewfinder and have rediscovered the joy of using my 35 Summicron ASPH. The .58 viewfinder is absolutely taylor made to be used with the 35mm lens; the choice of speed is up to your needs/budget. Using any 35 lens, the .58 viewfinder is unencumbered with other lens markings. My second favorite lens choice for this camera is 28mm. The 28 Summicron is such an exceptional lens that it should be considered.

I used Hasselblad for years. It is a great system. The film area is approximately 3.5 times the area of 35mm, so you will have superior results. I sold my Hasselblad and went to Leica M only. I loved the fill flash with the leaf shutters, but I did not require it for most of what I did. The compactness and quality of the Leica M is more than adequate for most of what I need. No one camera system is perfect for everything; the trick is to find the one that does most of what you need it to do. The M rangefinder and lenses fill the bill for my needs.

I like the .85 viewfinder so much that I own 2 M6 .85 camera bodies. Although the 50 Summicron is my normal lens, I have used the .85 bodies and my 35 ASPH lens with success without an auxilliary finder ( I do not wear glasses ). Although I use a 21 ASPH lens, I use the finder without a problem on the .85 cameras. Now here is the deal: I recently purchased a 28 Summicron and love it. I can use it on the .85 cameras even without a viewfinder, but it takes a good amount of "guesstimation". I bought a VC auxilliary finder, which helps with composition, although it is slower than I would like. I thought the finder would be enough, but I am using the 28 all of the time so I have just purchased a .58 viewfinder M6 and should have it on Wednesday. I never thought that I would have taken to the 28 focal length like I have. The 28 Summicron is one fine objective.

Evan, there are quite a few options to explore in Leica M mount. In addition to Leica, Voigtlander, Carl Zeiss, Konica, and a few other manufacturers have or are currently producing lenses in M mount. Most of these lenses are quite good, arguably as good as Leica lenses. The latest generation lenses are considered to be the "best", but many of us own lenses of different generations and prefer them in some instances over the newer lenses. I use a 35 Summicron ASPH. For most Leica shooters, the 35mm focal length is indispensable. I usually reach for something wider or longer, so my 35 doesn't get as much use as others use theirs. No one on this board can make these decisions for you. You pay your money and you make your choice(s). In my opinion, you really cannot go wrong with Leica lenses of any generation. I first bought Leica after seeing prints that were exposed with pre-war Leitz lenses. The results were tremendous, and the friend who produced them was an excellent photographer and highly skilled darkroom technician. The best way to improve your photography is to improve your skills; and with Leica lenses of the current generation you will have no reason to fail except yourself.

"I like the pre-APO much better for the look it gives those shots where I would use the 90 wide open."

 

Precisely the reason that I prefer the Apo-Summicron ASPH. Shooting this lens at F2 is a delight, not that the pre-asph is a slouch - it isn't.

I've never had a flare problem with my 50 Summicron (latest). Not sure why so much variation between lenses, unless subject matter is different.

Pro 160C is an improved NPC; Pro 160S is an improved NPS: EI 160 Color Print Films.

A link to the Leica Customer Forum with some good photos with the 28 Summicron:

 

http://www.leica-camera.com/discus_e/messages/2/144875.html?1120347011

Rope, not Roap. Too early in the morning.

And don't forget to bring the Soap-on-a-Roap.

Frederick, I rarely carry both the 75 Summilux and the 90 Summicron AA lens at the same time. The versatility of the Summilux causes me to carry it more than the 90. I love its "look". I use the 90 SAA lens most of the time at maximum aperture. At F2 its sharpness is amazing. I also use the 1st Version 90 Elmarit when I don't need the attributes of the 90 SAA, and it is a lot lighter for combination in a multi lens kit. Truth be told, I could live without the 90 SAA lens, but it is so good wide open that I will keep it. Although lovely at all apertures, the 75 Summilux becomes just as sharp as the 90 SAA at about F4 - F5.6. Lately, I have been carrying the 75 Summilux along with the 28 Summicron. This is a good versatile combination that satisfies most needs for me, and the 28 Summicron has become almost my standard lens. . Occasionally, I will change up the 28 for the 35 Summicron ASPH and/or add the 21 ASPH for something wider.

I do not own nor have I had the opportunity to use the 75 Summicron, although the 75 Summilux is a favorite lens. I love its rendition and have never considered this lens to be unwieldy. I also use an Apo-Summicron M 90 ASPH lens, in addition to other Leica 90 lenses.

 

Every comment that I have heard or read about the 75 Summicron has been very positve. No doubt that it is a great lens, combining the best of the new technology in the 75mm focal length. The 75 Summicron is smaller than the 90 ASPH lens and seems to be as sharp. It may combine with a 28 or 35 to make the perfect compact 2 lens kit.

 

If this is an either/or question, please ask yourself which focal lens is most important to you and your photography. As much as I enjoy the Summilux, I also need a 90. I do not think that having the 75 focal length eliminates the need for the 90. You may feel otherwise. Unless you have experience with both focal lengths and have tried each of these lenses, how will you know what best fits your needs? What is best for me may not be best for you.

I have used many cameras and formats through the years, owning and using a Hasselblad outfit for several decades. Great quality, but heavier, much bulkier. I decided to simplify, so I sold all the medium format. Leica M is my system camera now, and I much prefer it for what I do. The only thing I occasionally miss is the leaf shutter: I loved fill flash at all shutter speeds. Yes, quality is better with the 3.5X film area of the 6X6 vs 35mm, but like Al says, the quality of film is much improved. I guess that it is really about what fits your needs. Leica M is it for me, for now.

No brainer: which one do use the most? Do you use 1.4? Why not keep them both; add the new ASPH Summilux, the Elmar, and the Noctilux. Of course, you also need a DR Summicron, and maybe a collapsible Summicron. They are all fine performers. Asking strangers (without knowledge of you or your needs) about which lenses to keep is a little asinine, wouldn't you agree?

...the 28/2 tends to vignette at larger F-stops.

 

Sorry, Eliot; the 28 Summicron does NOT vignette any more at maximum aperture (F2) than the Elmarit does at maximum aperture (F2.8). The Summicron is virtually the same size as the Elmarit and its performance is superior at every stop. The 28 Summicron is at the forefront of Leica lens technology. The 28 Elmarit is a wonderful performer; the Summicron is better.

Anhtu, if it is a 90mm Elmarit and made in the '70's, you have a first version Elmarit. I have an older chrome Elmarit and a newer black first version with supposedly improved coatings, and I do not see any differences in the results. Neither is flare prone, although I do agree that any lens can be made to flare. I think you will be very pleased with your lens.

39mm; Check out Erwin Puts' Website:

 

http://www.imx.nl/photosite/leica/overview/listm.html