bens

<a href=http://www.photo.net/photo/4915742>See

here</a> and feel free to leave a note to him as well.

Thanks Yann, but Five belongs to everyone, I just pick up the mail now and again.

Well, since I was the commenter on David's photo that he links here, I think I will throw in my two cents. I've been around the site a long time, and had just about every emotion about ratings expressed in this forum. Its natural to want more insights out of the system on the works we post, but I'm afraid many have been disappointed when they suggested changes to do so.<br><br>

 

After a long time, I have concluded for myself that the site really means what it says: believe it or not, the site is not providing the ratings system for the purposes of posting photogrpaphers, its providing it for the site's own purposes -- which appear to me to be as a way to draw people to the site, and to create an easy sorting mechanism for its data base of photos. The site has never had much of an interest in create a system that is a "fair" competition, or which gives much feedback to posting photographers besides that the aggregate is a reflection of the tastes of those viewing photos on the site, i.e., a sort of public opinion survey. <br><br>

 

Furthermore, the site does not appear terribly interested in requiring or encouraging any more feedback than is already available for works posted on the site. We're kind of on our own. That's not a bad thing necessarily, as the site does provide us with extraordinary access to each other. But we have to reach out to each other, give critiques to receive them, if we expect a lot of feedback. This approach has worked over time for many.<br><br>

 

This self-help sensibility has also led to certain initiatives on the site, such as <a href=http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=617763>Picture This</a>, <a href=http://www.photo.net/photo/4062848>Five</a>, and, started today, <a href=http://www.photo.net/photo/4880672>"3"</a>. Try them and see what you think. Commenting, hopefully thoughtfully, constructively, honestly, on the work of others who are likely to respond in kind appears to be the best way to get meaningful feedback, at least in my experience.<br><br>

Hope this helps.

. . . and Giuseppe, feel free to call me Bne.

Thanks for the credit Guiseppe, but its more than I deserve, as the Five idea grew out of a collective sense, and has been furthered by many.

 

The original Five group made a commitment for a month to comment on a certain number of photos every time we logged in, and since then have been acting in that spirit, but without any specific commitment. That's worked best for me given other responsibilities in my days. If you don't mind, I'll support your idea in that same spirit.

 

I have been around here for awhile, participated in numerous forums, bought equipment, read articles, etc. -- even had a pic or two in the TRP (ya hang around long enough and anything can happen) -- I have found that the most satisfying experience is the exchange of honest, constructive ideas on posted photos with others. I've learned an enormous amount from doing so, and developed some valued virtual relationships along the way. Its well worth the time.

 

So -- the more initiatives the better! Every picture is worth a thousand words! Be a mate commenter! Give to receive!

 

And long live the willingness of many to give the gift of a critique.

I say be a mate commenter . . . liberate yourself from a concern about numbers and make some friends instead. More fun, more feedback in the end.

 

Jeez, there's been a lot of postings about ratings lately. I gotta say (admittedly off topic, sorry Jon), like it, don't like it, the ratings system is what it is. But if you (not Jon you, but the more generic reader you) are a posting photographer looking for feedback, well, your pictures are worth a thousand words, not just some numbers. On this site, unless your work is considered extraordinarily good or the subject matter is considered fascinating (a minority that does not include me), the best solution appears to be to give in order to receive. Make constructive comments on works you find interesting of people who have a history of responding in kind. Its been a successful strategy for a lot of people.

 

In other words, if you are frustrated by the amount of feedback on your photos, you can demand the site change, withdraw, look for other sites, etc., but in the meantime one answer remains literally at your fingertips. Find some works you find interesting and start typing.

okay, joke -- nothing personal Jon.

The top photographer by average calculation consists of the number of photographs posted times the total numerical value of ratings given, divided by the number of questions posted by the photographer about ratings in this forum.

Thanks for the response, Mark. Actually, I agree with much of the substance of your concerns about the ratings system. I also think that we benefit from critiquing honestly as much as kindly. There are more of us than you think who try to do both. However, just because I agree with you that the site would benefit greatly from changes does not mean I agree its worthy of condemnation, particularly during a time of transition, and a time when the site appears from the outside to be facing some significant challenges. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Seeing the possibility for a brilliant future does not mean that changes would not help. Its not so black and white/either-or, Mark. It may be that the site has no value to you, relative to other opportunities. But he site has survived for a decade, has a wealth of information and photographs among its resources, and people interested in many aspects of photography from around the world participating in a wide range of forums.

 

I sit in a different position than you -- I am one of the amateurs who you may not find particularly helpful to hang out with, unless you want an amateur's view of things, which you apparently don't. Still, I can tick off in one breath a dozen things that frustrate me about the site, and in another breath a dozen things I would like as improvements. But at this point, with the site in some sort of significant transitiion, it is my affection for what the site has meant to me that dominates my thoughts. I hope those of us who have benefitted from the site can ride through this time with the site improved and our communities intact. And Mark, I hope that includes you.

As a long-time participant, I have my share of concerns about the site. However, I continue to think the site has great promise, and to a significant extent is going to be what its participants -- at all levels -- are willing to make of it. I hope at some point the site's management seeks feedback from its participants about what works and could be improved about the site. For the moment, it appears they have their hands full. So this note just to say -- your efforts are appreciate and worthwhile. The future can be as bright as the sun.

Regardless of the merits of your suggestion, the site's management has indicated no interest in such proposals for a very long time.

 

So here's a suggestion -- try participating in <a href=http://www.photo.net/photo/4062848>Five</a>, its a page for people interested in critiquing photographs, and has a long list of people who share that interest. Perhaps by commenting on their photos you will have a reasonably good chance of receiving comments on your own work in return.

Thanks Barry, glad its been of help. It looks like the page gets about 100 visits a day. Perhaps some people continue to find it a helpful tool.

. . . critiques that is.

<br><br>

One more clarifying note -- if you want to be added to the Five list, please leave a note at the <a href=http://www.photo.net/photo/4062848>Five</a> discussion page rather than here.

<br><br>

Thanks again.

I've messed up in trying to insert the Five discussion page link above.

<br><br>

Here's the link:

<a href=http://www.photo.net/photo/4062848>Five</a>

<br><br>

Its in my portfolio, and the link address is<br><br>

http://www.photo.net/photo/4062848

<br><br>

Good luck -- remember, it helps to give to receive . . .

A note to those pnetters interested in critiques:

<br><br>

Six months ago, a group of us interested in more critiques and discussion of

photos posted on the site tried a one-month experiment. We agreed to comment

on five photos other than our own every time we visited photo.net. We called

our experiment "Five," listing ourselves and our efforts on a discussion page

that can be found <a href=http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?

photo_id=4062848>here</a>.

<br><br>

Although the formal experiment ended, the spirit of Five appears to continue.

The Five page continues to be visited and used (with over 27,000 visits as of

this morning), and about 180 people have added their names to the list.

<br><br>

So, at the six month-anniversary of Five, I leave this note. If you are trying

to find others interested in dialoguing about photos posted on the site, feel

free to have a look and begin commenting on the works of those listed. Their

shared interest in critiquing suggests they would welcome any thoughts you have

and possibly respond in kind on your work.

<br><br>

I am not very active myself on the site these days, but if you have a little

patience I am glad to also add your name to the Five list when I check back

here. Nothing required other than a willingness to share in its spirit. If

you are interested, please review the information at the discussion page and

expressly state that you want your name added to the list, as I certainly don't

want to do so mistakenly.

<br><br>

Thanks, hope it helps.

<br><br>

-- Ben S

Lisa, no need to apologize, it can be hard on the nerves to put your work up for public review. I think a lot of us have gone through some or all of what you've been feeling and doing. To the extent we have hung around, we have found ways to make use of the site; there are many ways. As for getting feedback beyond numbers on photos, its not easy, you need a thick skin sometimes, but it is possible with some work.

 

I've exchanged many comments on photos over the past four years and made some valuable connections in doing so. I agree with others, you do have to "give to receive" -- so don't worry about your technical proficiency, most of us are amateurs like you trying to figure things out as we go along; any civilly stated feedback is generally appreciated in my experience. And a reasonable number of people whose works you comment on will take a look at your work, particularly if you share interests and you visit and comment on their photos more than once.

 

There's a posting in my portfolio called "Five" that contains a long list of people who have identified themselves as particularly interested in giving critiques of photos. It was an experiment that's been over for some time, but you might want to try commenting on photos of people in this group, as there's a better chance that they will respond in kind. I'm not participating much myself these days, but I would think that lots of people on the list are. Good luck.

Follow-up -- Canon was terrific in repairing the unit promptly from its Irvine facility. Came back today, appears to be good in all respects, haven't a chance to shoot with it quite yet, but it is test firing properly. To Canon and back in about 11 days.

Thanks for trying Ken.

Yes, all those things functioning properly. Does not fire on my old D30 either. Since the test flash doesn't fire, I think its the flash itself. Thanks again though, you are always willing to try and I appreciate that.

Thank you, Nadine. I've tried the custom functions, the TTL was not enabled. Still no flash. Thanks for the idea though.

And if it is broken, is it worth having Canon repair it? Any experiences with them on this kind of repair? Anyone know the cost?

Refurbished 550EX on a Canon 10D. Have had it about a year, without a lot of

use. Was trying it out in Av mode, and it fired normally, perhaps a dozen

times. Then switched to high-speed synch by pressing + and - on the speedlite

simaltaneously. The 550EX would not fire, and it has not fired since. Not on

the camera or off the camera in any test firing (the test lamp is always red,

but there is no flash). Have tried it in every mode, switched to fresh

batteries, switched lenses. Nothing. The speedlite appears to function

properly in every other way. In fact, the camera information for each

photograph records as if a flash has fired. Sometimes the speedlite green

light even comes on, presumably because I have the exposure correct, after I

take a shot although no light is firing. Has the unit failed, or have I

inadvertantly done something to cause it not to flash that can be changed? Any

and all suggestions greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Ben -- perhaps this rotation in the default TRP could be limited to the top dozen categories or so, where there are significant postings?

<br><br>

Carl -- nothing's perfect, the question is whether there would be an improvement. If my suggestion is impractical from a programming point of view, changing the TRP regularly, such as by category, would be an improvement I think. Right now, I lose enthusiasm quickly when I go through it as I find only 3 or 4 genres well represented with photos featuring views and themes seen many times before, and the predictable ones at that.

<br><br>

Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

That's okay Barry, it doesn't need a response necessarily, just an open mind that is listening. Having thought of it, I just thought it was worth suggesting. The one thing that keeps me coming back to the site right now is the chance to view some quality images of different types easily. So its particularly frustating to see the same kinds of images over and over again in the default TRP. I think more variety would help a lot in a number of ways, as I've already said.