patrick_viebey___orlando__

Ummm. Is it really affecting you, other than just personally annoying?

If it isn't affecting business, I'd just forget about it. Life's too short.

And, if you really wanna pursue this, it's gonna cost you money (back to whether it is costing you already).

My bet - no one but you notices. And it'll drive you crazy if you let it.

Don't even bother to ask why. Just move on. Very typical for ANY type of sales.

OTOH, I try to have a 'observer' with me a lot of the time (usually by wife). We debrief later, and my goal is for her to pick up any subtle messages (and sometimes not so subtle) that I'm just missing. That can be a good learning experience (especially since guys just don't read women as well as women read women).

You can try that - but you need to be VERY open to listen to the comments you get from your observer. You will try to rationalize what you did, and it's irrelevant.

That's how to get better. But you can expect a percent of 'no sales', and you'll never know why. Don't let it make you crazy, just move on to the next one.

I try to make it clear that it's her wedding, so her schedule. However, the photos last forever and will be remembered for generations, so maybe it's worth seriously considering taking enought time.

The last wedding I did, they asked for a bunch of formal pix with family et al. I said fine, expect them to take about an hour and a half (reasonable, given the number). They said they only wanted to take 45 minutes. I asked them to prioritize and I'd do as many as I could. Actually ended up with about 25 minutes (Bride was 'hungry'). Happily, I think I managed to fill in any gaps with PJ pix or others.

I guess I'd say there's a delicate balance between the desire to do the job 'right' (in our eyes) and what time they're willing to relinquish. We get too pushy we cause them to be unhappy/aggressive.

I just try to make sure they make very, very informed decisions, but ultimately, they're the customer. At the end of the day, they're paying you for a service. You have to either make the best of it, or decline the business.

That's my take. I'd bet others have better ways to skin this.

My take, FWIW.

pat

Call me crazy, but I don't do eat or drink with the 'customers'. I have my game face on, and go somewhere else to have some nice cold tea and a bit to eat (I bring with me) during requisite (by contract) breaks.

So, I'm either moving, taking pictures, etc, or I go hide somewhere on break (time very carefully and short). Any invitation to drink, sit down, etc are graciously acknowledged, and then I move on.

I might mention that I had surgery, and the thought of eating anything that could possibly (quickly) keep me from working is enough to keep me this way. But, I suspect the same for anyone - if you eat (or drink) something and it makes you unable to work, your reputation will be shot, and you'll have an unhappy customer. So, for me, I try to control this variable...

pat

Just remember - it's YOUR contract. So, if a dispute arises, any discrepancy will be held against YOU. So, be careful. That said, I haven't had mine looked at by a lawyer (although I've done lots of contract work in past history, so I have some basic understanding).

I'd just look all across the internet, find as many as you can, and use the good ideas. You'll probably find things that didn't occur to you (yet).

IMHO, MOST important is the 'non performance' clause. Like, if you get sick the day before the wedding, you don't want to get sued to pay for their entire wedding 'redo' to take pictures.

As far as selling prints, you can just add a 'Any distrubution to any other party, via electronically or via printed media will be a violation of Photographers contract.' Then, if they do (and you can figure it out), you could sue for damages for breach of contract(hard, I think).

Good luck!

pat

All good comments. One other to chip in here...

I also try to attend the rehearsal, where possible. Don't charge for it (don't guarantee any pictures or include it in contract at all). Don't even really stay for the whole thing, just in-n-out.

My mission is to get the 'lay of the land', for the venue (some time to plan picture locations), meet the officiant (make sure I get his rules right), get a quick clue about the other 'players' in the wedding party, and usually hear the final 'who is going to be where when'.

I don't do large volumes of weddings, but it makes me feel more comfortable the job will go well. And, in this case, hopefully I would have heard their timelines in real-time and could plan accordingly.

Dunno if this helps or not.

Me personally, I don't think you're ever going to make her happy, so I'd execute exactly to the terms of the contract, to the extent that I might possible put exactly what was done where into writing. MAKE SURE to document and keep your documentation on what happened, just in case it goes any further (very unlikley, but not impossible).

Not sure how relevant this is, but when I see 'flat' images with my cameras, it's usually because I screwed up the exposure, and it got 'fixed' by being brought up. It just doesn't look as good as if I got it right. I think (looking at histogram) it's because the total dynamic range got compressed because I didn't get enough light across the entire range. My thinking anyway.

So, my observation would be to check your metering, and check the histogram to see the total range of exposure.

Just a thought, FWIW.

pat

Another thought just crept into my head...

There's certainly nothing wrong with film. It's as valid as anything else, and if you shoot MF, I think it still beats the pants off digital.

OTOH, I was in the computer industry for 30 years, so I'm fully comfortable with digital. I spent far too many days sitting there anyway... And I like things like histograms that give me a clue I haven't totally lost the image (yeah, I lost the leader off the wind-up spool a couple of times...)

Again, no offense intended against film. It was an interesting observation only....

Dave:

Interestingly, I just read a PPA analysis that shows that pure digital studios operate at 11% lower cost of sales, and return 6% higher owners total return. Not sure how statistically valid it is, but it's over 180 studios. So, ummm, pertinent to this discussion, no, I'm quite happy to be fully and completely digital.

I like Laura's answer. I think it's the ethical thing to do, irrespective of the legal thing.

The interesting challenge will be to decide 'how bad is bad'. Me personally, I'd say if the venue closes or if there's an official evacuation order, I'd say it's bad.

Given the tendency of folks to more often tell people how unhappy they are, and the need for good word-of-mouth, I'd probably err on the side of 'goodness'.

If you gotta leave town too, well, at least you didn't lose anything.

Interesting and useful info. OTOH, how do you deliver this message, without sounding like you're whining?

I would think that, if your cost is in line with your area, target market, and quality expectations, I would bet the reaction would be "that's very interesting, but I don't care." And, I personally suspect this 'hidden cost' is true for any profession. Drs, lawyers, etc etc -and of course, other folks in this business have the same challenges.

Interestingly to me, the MOST important thing I think they're paying for is the guarantee of good, beautiful, long-lasting images, done professionally. They pay those extra dollars because they believe you can deliver that - and if cost is their most important dynamic, they need to hire Uncle Bob. And, they pay extra extra for those real high profile places with the big names (you know who you are) because of this same thing because they believe they can deliver more.

I guess I think we deliver an art that's very intangible, and sort of like Drs, Lawyers, etc etc customers pay for the skill we bring to that. Everything else is just operating cost.

I guess in the end, I more or less agree with what you're saying, I'm just wondering how you handle this 'education' in a way that resonates in a good way with the customer?

Mine is the same.

I'd think this is pretty much the same for everyone, with variations on the theme. No one wants to book a 'working' day and lock out other possibilities, but get nothing for it...

The 20d (according to DPReview) has a 1.6x lens factor. So, your 50 behaves like a 80mm lens. Even with a DSLR, 50mm 'real' lens factor is still considered a normal, so I'd say that'd be long for 'general' use.

Me personally, I like the 17-40 you have for weddings (which 'works' like a 27 to 62mm).

My thoughts, FWIW.

We're at a paradigm shift point - class 'sell prints' model versus 'sell the bits' model.

Take a look at iTunes, and see how it's going to impact your local record store. The same thing is happening here.

So, it just depends on whether you're in the classic 'sell the prints' (CD) or new 'sell the bits' (music download) view.

Me, I give my clients a limited, personal use license and a copy of the images and recognize the change.

One reason. Marketing and appearance sell (hate to say it, but true).

And, frankly, I bought a DSLR because of the advanced things it can do - and if I couldn't do them, I'd still be shooting film.

This may be stupid and obvious, but don't forget to dim or reduce the ambient lighting to increase the usefullness of modelling lights.

If you have several hundred watts of incandescant light on them already, you won't see a thing.

Again, stupid and obvious. BUt......

Looks like we got you fixed up. I just wanted to chime in that photo retouching software is pretty much a 'must have' for digital. Shooting raw (to save you from the occaisional boo-boo) is also a really good idea.

Photoshop Elements (abour $50) will automatically color correct these for you when you bring them in, and is very user friendly (but still lets you get very creative). You can buy it about anywhere.

If you have more pix that're a problem, get the free eval for Elements from the Adobe website, and open the pix, and I'd bet most of your problems with color balance magically are fixed.

This also lets you control things like how much sharpening, crops, etc etc.

Not dinging you, just letting you know how much Elements can really help you without needing to learn a whole lot.

6 bit? I have no idea out of hand.

How do you have it connected?

In any event, no, you'll be fine. I'm just curious, since computer stuff tends to be in even multiples of 4 or 8.

Check out this review. They like the monitor (and don't mention 6 bits or pence or anything...) http://reviews.cnet.com/Dell_UltraSharp_1907FP/4505-3174_7-31694881-2.html?tag=nav

I'm gonna play devils advocate here for a second, just to balance things a bit. I can see the Park's dept desire to get a fee for taking pictures in land they maintain. I'm not sure why the fact it's a govt location changes things. Ever pay an entrance fee at a national park? Same thing....

And, 'double jeopardy' is kinda funny. So, the Fed taxes my paycheck. What's up with the local sales tax, fuel taxes, etc etc etc? That's uhhh double what? Govt is all about getting in your pocket as often as possible <grin>.

What *really* annoys me more is zoos and the like that put copyright restrictions on MY photos I take at their zoo.

Okey dokey. Anyways, you pays your money, you takes your chances...

Good question to ask!Lemme put some thoughts in your head...

Just think about explaining to the bride and groom why you don't have any pictures of their wedding.

Picture the affect on your professional reputation.

Picture yourself explaining to a judge in a lawsuit why you didn't have backup (yes, your contract may - note the word may - protect you, but you can still be sued).

If you're putting yourself out as professional, you need to be professionally prepared. That means a 'Plan B' for everything. I have spare batteries, spare lenses, spare bodies, spare flashes (3 to be exact), everything but a spare me. I figure if I'm dead, then everything else is a wash, but I'm responsible for anything beyond that.

Oh, and insurance on your equipment and liability if something bad happens (like no pictures or somebody trips on your lightstand) is a good idea.

Portrait work - no big deal. Weddings - no second chances. I have a full second right (body, camera, flash) about 3 seconds away from grabbing during the critical moments.

If you're doing it as a hobby/favor, I might feel different (well, let's just say I shot a bunch of weddings that way myself), but I can't stand the idea of losing the most critical moment in people's lives when they rely on me. And, that's beyond any legal or other considerations....

Hope this helps.

pat

Don't know what camera you're using, but here's an idea. Use a 'generic' item at the right distance to set the exposure. Like, set it on somebody near them wearing a gray suit (NOT black). (Anything not at an extreme white or black, both will send your exposure the other direction).

Lock the exposure at that setting . Take picture. Check histogram if your camera has one to see how the exposure worked out.

Or, shoot raw, set the camera for auto, and fix it later in your image editing software. (Yes, for the others in this forum, this isn't the optimal way to do it, but frankly, given a shortage of time to learn, and my idea that experimenting at a wedding is a bad idea, that's why I suggest this).

There's also a lot of stuff on this website and a bunch of others on how to do this with the 'right' exposure, tools, etc. And a bunch of books (I know there's a bunch, 'cause I own a lot of them...) There's a lot of other things to consider, which are much more of a concern...like, for example, if you only have 1 camera, and that camera dies as the wedding starts, what's your backup plan? Do you know what 'Depth of Field' is and why it can make people 'fuzzy'? How do you use flash to avoid redeye, and even it out?

You can make this work, and your friend will appreciate it. When I started out, I also did this as 'gifts' for my friends, with the clear expectation of "I guarantee nothing" - as long as you're honest, and do your best, it'll all work out. Just make sure you don't represent yourself as a 'professional' (which most especially includes any form of a contract), and it'll be fine.

Keep it simple. Keep it to what you KNOW (from practice) works. Watch what your camera is telling you. And, have some fun!

Hope this helps.

pat

You asked the nice government lady, and the nice government lady gave you the nice formal government answer.

That's what you get for asking.

Me personally, unless it's posted, if it's a quick in-n-out with my on-camera flash and the couple (Maybe a small modifier), I'd just do it. If it's a big deal (bringing my lights, modifiers, bunch of people), then I'd pay just to avoid the possible hassle.

Hey, this still sucks....

Dang, I'm sorry to hear that.

FWIW, I personally don't see this as anything different between film or digital, unless you go back far enough where there's no battery powered stuff.

Even my venerable Canon A-1, which only had auto exposure, would go dead when that little battery crapped out. And, that's 20+ years ago...

I'm sure they'll get you fixed up.... good luck!

If you have to ask, you already know the answer.

Would you do this from a guy in a parking lot?

Max specification for USB single run is 16'. That's why you don't see any wires longer than that (they wouldn't be compliant). Even the extensions are 10', with the assumption you're going to plug it into a 6' cable.

Beyond 16', you should buy a 16' powered extension cable that will make sure the signals stay up to par. Otherwise, it may work, or it may not work, or it may intermittently do either, all depending on the quality of the cables, the amount of electrical noise, etc etc.

Past 16', without signal conditioning (some kind of powered amplifier), weird things can happen on USB.

Hope this helps.

pat