cd thacker

If the M8 produced excellent images in a silent way, as in days of old, I know a great many photojournalists (of all ages) who would find a way to buy one (just as they find the means to the 1D, 1DS, D3, and so on). As it is, though, the M8, with its loud shutter cock, IR contamination, and history of quality control issues, is just way over-priced. The bottom line is that its issues prevent it being a practical instrument for professionals, while its price prevents it, for most people, from being an affordable extravagance. If Leica can't or won't lower the price, they need to greatly improve the camera - in the direction of being a serious instrument. And they need to do it while not letting the price rise any more.<p>

 

Leica at this point is a luxury badge with a storied history. Besides that and a loud, expensive, digital rangefinder, they have in their basket a bunch of second-rate point-and-shoots made by someone else, Ukrainian binoculars, and great, expensive lenses that fit only on the rangefinder. Oh, and a couple of film cameras that, I imagine, very few indeed are buying. Not a pretty picture, is it?<p>

 

If I were the owner of Leica, here's what I would do. I would carry out the promise to take back the Leitz name. I would put a plant in China, staff it with home-country supervisors and equipment, and train a labor force. I wouldn't build my M8 or its lenses there, though (the world isn't ready for that and it might dilute the brand). Instead, I would build a series of <i>Leitz</i> pocket cameras along the lines of the Sigma DP-1. There would be at least three such cameras, one featuring a wide lens (24mm or so), one a standard lens (50mm), and one a portrait-type length (75 or 90mm). Each would feature an optical, high-eyepoint viewfinder with a single brightline frame, a near-silent shutter (with, if need be, manual shutter cocking), and a large, cutting-edge sensor with 14 or 16-bit A/D conversion.<p>

 

These cameras would be serious instruments available at a reachable price. Since I am building them in China (where my labor cost is maybe a tenth of what it is in Germany), I could keep the retail price under $2000 and still increase my margin (especially given the economies of scale I might achieve).<p>

 

The second thing I would do is partner with Tokina or Tamron or some other such third party manufacturer to make leica caliber autofocus lenses in popular mounts. I would have these made in China as well, in order to keep the price in the $1500-$2500 range.<p>

 

And the third thing I would do is to come out with version two of the M8 (while adding it to the a la carte program). This version would be quieter and eliminate, out of the box and by some means, the IR issue. Maybe that's easier said than done, but that's what needs to happen.<p>

 

Lastly, I might give some thought to working with my partner, Panasonic, to improve the image quality in the point-and-shoots.<p>

 

If Leica can do these things, or even some of them, they might have some new history to add to the old.

<center><img src="http://static.flickr.com/43/74346901_420c91a5e4_o.jpg" height="650" width="445"><p><i>And so is she.</i></center>

<center><img src="

http://static.flickr.com/43/74345799_e74e68b768_o.jpg" height="500" width="332"><p><i>She's on the edge</i></center>

<center><img src="http://static.flickr.com/29/59608558_370694d89c_o.jpg" height="432" width="650"></center>

That's a good one, Kipling. That fly looks real. I can almost hear it buzzing.

Here's another one.<p><center><img src="http://static.flickr.com/41/74045969_f6014c71fb_o.jpg" height="518" width="389"><p>Chinatown Airport, Honolulu 2004 <i>Nokia 3650</i></center>

I enjoyed shooting birds with my phone. <p><center><img src="http://static.flickr.com/42/74045936_104476e581_o.jpg" height="518" width="389"><p>Makiki, Honolulu 2004 <i>Nokia 3650</i></center>

You're right, Glen, I did write those words two years ago. And came to regret them some months later, when I recommended this camera to two students I knew - only to find out subsequently, when they took me up on it, that each of their cameras had stopped working. And last year I met a photography teacher who told me that while he used to recommend the FM10 to his students, he no longer did so - because of the high incidence of breakage and unreliability among them.<p>

 

But I'll defer to your expertise, since I'm sure it trumps the experience of the teacher and his students, and of my two student friends.<p>

 

And Conni, I appreciate that you own and like the camera. But given that you appear, from past posts, to own at least one or two of virtually every Nikon camera made, I imagine you can't spend too much time shooting with yours. Still, I'm glad you're a fan.

Yes you are, Travis. And I agree with you that taking pictures, sharing them, enjoying them with others, is really what photography is all about. Still, taking them <i>really well</i> counts for something.<p>

 

I got a little carried away when I said that grant's pics are "by far" the best to appear on photo.net. It's plain to me that you really work at constantly seeing better and shooting better. It shows in the terrific work you do, which, for what it's worth, I take inspiration from. What I don't know is if <i>you</i> know how exceptional much of this work is. In any case I'm glad to see you're still at it.

I could be wrong in this, Sharon, but I think it's been pretty well established that the Leitz family never used slave labor, in their factories or anywhere else. Now <i>Zeiss</i> on the other hand used slave labor aplenty. <p>

 

Today, looking back, everything German gets tarred with the same brush. I guess that's understandable, but it's not correct.

Yeah, Barry, I see your point. But I was mostly inactive on photo.net when edmo was around. (From what i've seen of his work since, though, I can see why he'd be missed.) Anyway, I was just talking about this thread. And about grant, not Christ. Though now that i think of it . . . .

<i>What a bunch of imbeciles.</i><p>

 

Ditto that, Eugene.

In terms of <i>talent</i>, Travis, your work isn't far behind. Thanks for starting this thread.

Well, that's an interesting question, Sharon. But what exactly do you mean by it? At the time the Leica was developed, Germany was the center of progressive thinking and a hotbed of political (and personal) radicalism. It also boasted a long and deep current of liberalism, which I understand was manifest in the Leitz family (the same family which later, at great risk, sent jews to safety in what became known as the Leica freedom train). Of course all this progressive thinking must have been pretty threatening to the powers of the time, because their response to it was to unleash Nazism. So, are Leica users represented by the freedom, enthusiasm, and creative energy of the StreetZen thread - reflecting that which was found in Germany at the Leica's birth? Or are they represented by the authoritarian, arbitrary response to same?

I was watching this thread with great interest until it got too long to download. When I finally came back to it all hell had broken loose.<p>

 

I have to say that grant's work here is nothing less than <i>incandescent</i>, if you don't mind, grant, a fifty cent word. Brilliant. Grant's work is by far the strongest to appear on photo.net, lending to the site a credibility it can't and doesn't wish to warrant.<p>

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but watching this thread has reminded me more than a little of <i>One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest</i>. One extraordinary individual shakes up the routine, sets the pace for the group, and suddenly - if only momentarily - everyone's confidence and enthusiasm see a huge boost, and so does the caliber of participation. We know what happens next.<p>

 

In any event, grant, your stuff deserves all the attention you can bring to it. Keep shooting.

<i>Most if not all of those people who must have and can afford FF have long switched to Canon.</i><p>

 

True. But only if they could afford and somehow justify an $8000 camera. The rest of those Nikon users who wanted a 24x36 sensor - that is, the vast majority of people with such a desire - might only now be thinking about switching, given the release of the 5D. And even still, $3300 is for many a prohibitive sum (especially since it doesn't even buy you a lens).<p>

 

That's why I'm glad to see Nikon getting so aggressive. A weather sealed, all-magnesium, 10.2 MP body that can be used, as Nikon says, "for any assignment", priced at $1700, certainly takes the edge off the 5D announcement. If Nikon can now get price of the D2X closer to that of the 5D, that will put unbelievable price pressure on the latter, and also to some extent lessen the impact of whatever Canon comes out with in the upcoming 30D. <p>

 

It remains to be seen, of course, whether Nikon will introduce a camera with a 24x36 sensor - a digital F6, let's say. But I think if they do it will be a powerful thing for them, from a marketing standpoint. Even if it is a little bit late to the game. I'd certainly buy one, if it performed well and if it were at all within my means. I think a great many people would, and some of them are Canon customers still trying to figure out what "error 99" means.

Glen, have you ever actually handled one of these things? <i>Cheap</i> - in the worst sense. The camera is designed and produced by <i>Cosina</i>, and while Nikon may have had some input, the obvious intention - which even a cursory examination would reveal - was to squeeze the last ounce of margin out of its production. The FM10 may have been, as you say, "designed for Asia", but it's sold in North America. Throw one in a backpack with your textbooks, hop on a city bus , and by the time you arrive at school as likely as not the thing is broken. Not worth even a fraction of what they charge for it, the FM10 is no more reliable than, say, a Diana, or some other toy camera. The only thing lacking is the light leaks. And the charm. And the ultra low price. <p>

 

I'm sure some people manage to use one for a time without incident. But to do so you'd have to be pretty careful. And pretty lucky, too.

What about the metering?

"Error 99" is a common problem with Canon cameras, from the least expensive to the most. Sometimes you can clear it yourself by cleaning contacts or removing the battery. Sometimes it has to go back to Canon. Given the known prevalence of this problem (just try a search on Google or <a href="http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22error+99%22+canon&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz2&fl=0&x=wrt">Yahoo</a>), I wouldn't pay Canon one single centavo to fix it; I'd demand they fix it for free.<p>

 

Hopefully, though, a CF card (instead of a micro-drive, as someone suggested above) will clear the "error". Good luck.

Ilkka,

 

Very interesting info on the Katz Eye. How is the metering with that screen installed? Have you tried matrix and spot? And those silvery lines that form a V in your first image - is that flare? Lastly, have you tried putting the old screen back in, to see if you can? Any problems with that?

Building its own sensor manufacturing facility would represent a substantial investment for Nikon. But having this capability would give Nikon maximum control of the end product and increase gross margin. Since digital obviously isn't going anywhere, it seems only a matter of time before they do this.

"Market forces" (i.e., Canon's still growing market share) will force Nikon to offer a so-called full-frame sensor if they possibly can, whether or not it's otherwise necessary.

 

Three grand for the D2X sounds about right. Meanwhile, I imagine this new camera won't be called "D2Xs" - it'll be the much talked about D3. Whether the D3 will be 16.9 MP and cost 6k remains to be seen. I could see it offering 18 to 20 MP and costing slightly less. In any event, it'll be a good move on Nikon's part.

 

In addition to new cameras, I hope we'll see some new lenses from Nikon.

Thanks for the clarification, Dave. I've never used flash with my F3HP and hope I never have to, so I wasn't sure.

If you don't mind my saying so, the FM10 is really a piece of junk that Nikon should have never put its name on. Intended for use by students, it's the Nikon-branded body least likely to withstand the rigors of student handling. Giving your son the FM2N was the right thing to do.<p>

 

As for what you should get, I agree with those who suggest that you consider the F3 or, if you wear glasses, an F3HP (with the one caveat that your speedlight might not be of much use to you with this body). I also agree with the person who suggested that Nikon develop a digital version of the F3HP.<p>

 

In the contest with its rivals, Nikon should play to its history and strengths. Imagine what a digital F3HP might be like: perhaps they'd call it "D3HP", and feature a 10-12 MP DX sensor. It wouldn't necessarily have to offer matrix or spot metering, as center-weighted should be fine for a manual focus camera. If they could somehow get match-needle metering in there, a la the FM3A, that would just be the cat's meow.<p>

 

Imagine further that Nikon developed a new line of manual focus DX primes. If these primes were designed with the DX crop factor in mind, utilized aspherics, and were apochromatic, they'd sell by the ton. Especially if they could be offered at only a slight premium over Nikon's current lens lineup. <p>

 

But, anyway, consider picking up a late-model F3HP. Failing that, a used FM3A would be the way to go. You'll find some brief info from Nikon about the two cameras <a href="http://www.nikonusa.com/slr/information/nikon_F3HP_FM3A_slr.htm">here</a>.

Nice work. 1 and 2 especially have a lot of presence and impact and say, to me, "Duesseldorf City Blues".