bob_yarsh

I thank all who responded -- according to the LCD on the camera, the battery is not yet low, but even so, changing the battery seems a reasonable thing to do and I'll try it. When I had the problem the second time (not as bad), pushing the shutter button corrected it, and after 3 or so cyces of this, it seemed to work fine. My impression is that it is only the mirror that was stuck up -- it has worked OK since I posted this, so it's hard to tell more. It seems to take at least a week for the problem to appear, so I won't know for some time if the new batteries will fix it -- I'll post again if they don't. When the problem appeared, it was sitting indoors in our house in a reasonably dry environment -- although I did take the camera hiking last summer during a wet spell.

If anyone else has had a similar experience, please feel free to share more info.

Finally, I'm a bit puzzled by Alex's comment that its is time to take my "snobbish" camera down a peg.... perhaps I'm missing something. This is an N80 I'm talking about.

I have had a recent problem with my N80 -- after not using it for

about 6 weeks, I tried taking a picture and got an Err message -- and

found the mirror stuck up. After fiddling a bit, the mirror came

down, and after tripping the shutter a few times (during which the

mirror sometimes got stuck), it seemed to be working. After it sat

three weeks (during which I used another camera), it happened again

but in a lessor way -- the mirror was freed the first time by hitting

the shutter and then seemed to work. I'm wondering if anyone there

has had a similar problem and/or has advice. The manual mentions that

the N80 should be fired once a month or so to prevent "mold" from

growing and getting it stuck, and one option would be to try to fire

it frequently over the next few weeks. Alternatively, this might be

time to take it in for a cleaning and oiling (it is a few years old

and has had only moderate use). Any advice?

Anyone know if what Marco is saying is correct? My understanding was that the

camera was "off" if the film wind is closed against the body -- and that the camera

was

turned on when one cocked the film winder. I don't remember anything in the

manual about it being shut off only when on B or M250.

Thanks to Shun and Jim for responding... My current thinking is that I probably hit

something to cause this, but I'm trying to figure out just what I hit. One thing that I

perhaps didn't mention in my original posting is that the first 8 or so shots in the roll

were fine --- the ones from hike were all multiply exposed on one frame -- and the

rest after that were also fine. I agree the temperature was not cold enough to affect

the camera (but may have caused me to be clutzier than usual). There were no rips in

the sprokets on the film. I'm thinking I probably hit either the rewind button or the

double exposure button, but this had never happened before and I'm trying to figure

out what happened. I was trying to see if anyone else had a similar experience with

an FE-2 (or FE or FM2 or similar Nikon camera) and if so what their assessment was.

My plan is to watch out for this in the near future with this camera and if seems to be

a camera problem (rather than me making a mistake) to bring it in for repair. Again,

any insights are always appreciated.

Bob Y.

I had a recent problem with my beloved FE2 that someone can perhaps shed some

light on. I shot several frames of a roll of film and then took it on a winter hike (with

camera in the case - temperature was about 24 degrees F) and shot a number of

pictures (maybe 14 or so). Towards the end of the hike, I noticed that the picture

number was still only about 8. Fiddled a bit (can't remember exacply what I did), and

then it seemed to work normally. When I got the film developed, it appears that the

film had not advanced when I was hiking and all the shots were multiple exposed in

one frame. The ones I took after that were fine.

Anyone have a similar experience or insights? It is possible I hit the double exposure

button or the button on the bottom that frees the film to rewind - but if so, I've never

done so before. I have used the camera quite a bit (mostly for hiking trips) and never

had this problem before. Overall, it is in good shape, and had a lube and look-over

about a year ago.

Any ideas or similar experiences (and resolutions) would be appreciated.

Thanks!

This news, which received a sad/humorous piece in the Wash Post Style section

yesterday, saddens me. I have been thinking of adding a digital SLR to my

equipment at some time, but this news gives me the sense that I will almost be forced

to do so as it will get increasingly difficult to get commercial support for film, rather

than because of the advantages of dgital for some types of photography. Until now,

I've been lazy.

The support needed for slides is relatively little (a film maker, some decent lab

available by car or mail, and a manufacturer making a projector), so I guess this

medium will continue for some time (unlike 8mm movie film, for example). But that

said, I wonder why Kodak made this decision. Even if the slide film market shrinks,

they must be able to make some money at it, especially if they stop doing research

for new films. Companies do make money in small markets. And if they're set up to

make projectors anyway and can sell even a few, why stop making them? If nothing

else, this step sends their customers a message that film is obsolete and will hasten

their loss of market. Kodak hasn't, IMHO, been great at its other areas of business,

so they seem to be hastening their own death as a company. Seems odd, but then

I'm not an MBA.

I trust that Fuji (and perhaps also Kodak) will continue to make E6 film for years to

come, that some quality labs will continue to do a good job at developing it, and that

some projectors will continue to be available (if not just on E-bay). With regard to the

latter, anyone have opinions on the best alternative maker of projectors if one wants

a new one?

I would look at another camera besides the FM-10. I frankly think the quality is just

too low on that camera. Although it is admittedly cheap, the meter of the one I

bought a few years ago

started acting up (gave weird readings when the shutter speed was 1/8 sec or less,

and was off 1-2 stops on other speeds) just after the warranty ran out, and the local

Nikon repair shop in DC said that it wasn't worth repairing. I have heard many other

stories of similar problems with the FM-10. Also, the viewfinder leaves much to be

desired. If you DO buy the FM-10, certainly don't buy the kit lens that comes with it

-- in my hands it was so bad that even 4x6 prints came out blurred!!

On the other hand, there are a number of fine Nikon MF cameras to consider. The

FM3a sounds wonderful, although I haven't used it. It is very similar to the FE-2 (last

made in 1983) - you can buy a used FE-2 in excellent condition from KEH.com for

$215. I have one that I bought from KEH and love it. The viewfinder is big and

bright, and it is a pleasure to use. The F3HP is also highly recommended for those

who wear glasses -- you can get this professional grade camera in excellent

condition from KEH for $415. There are other fine MF cameras as well you can pick

up new or used. Just remember you can't use G lenses with any of the MF cameras.

Bernard and I have exchanged notes on the FM-10, and as his posting illustrates,

some work fine and do the job they are intended to well. I should add that my

complaint is not the plastic body material, which I agree can be tough. But it is rather

aimed at other components that seem to break way too much and the poor

viewfinder.

Enjoy, whatever you buy.

Bob Y.

John

I made the jump from a Nikkormat to a Canon EOS A2 camera several years back. I

was able to get the basic hang of things pretty easily by reading the manual, but I

found it took me much longer to really get the feel of using the automatic camera. In

fact, I didn't really feel comfortable with it even after a year or so. This is in part

because the camera could do so much more (complex flash controls, etc.), but also

because you use automatic cameras differently. One potential pitfall is that how such

a camera works depends in part on how you leave the settings. It is key, especially in

the beginning, to always leave the camera set a particular way. I'd start slowly, say

with aperature priority, one type of metering, and one type of focusing - and then

gradually expand from there. I don't think the Magic lantern books are great, but

they can help you get a better understanding of the capabilities of whatever camera

you buy.

I should add I later went from the Canon A2 back to Nikon (an F100, N80, and FE-2). I

find the newer Nikons a bit more intuitive (and I like their viewfinders better in

general), although to be candid, the A2 seems pretty intuitive now also. IMHO, the

interface on the F100 or N80 is much more intuitive than the N90 or the 8008 -- you

may want to consider that in your deliberations.

Have fun.

Barnard, I am gad you're having a good experience with the FM-10. I had bought

mine for exactly the same purpose you bought yours -- as a lightweight camera to

take hiking, and it seemed an ideal candidate for that. I sincerely hope that yours

continues to function well.

I know it's easy to blow off the problems with the camera my son and his classmates

had, but again, those classmates that bought other cameras fared much better. (And

I later got my son an N80 which held up very well.) It is hard to get reliable

information on camera repair rates, but I think that if you look at a number of web

sites

where people rate their cameras, you'll find a disproportionate number of complaints

of serious probblems with the FM-10. I'm just saying that there are so many really

good manual Nikon cameras you can buy used that I would look at those before the

FM-10, which I think is way below any other Nikon in terms of quality. Also, I'd

personally hate to go backpacking for a week with a camera and then find all my

pictures were ruined because the meter started failing. I would look at a used FE-2,

for example, which one can buy in excellent condition from KEH for $215 right now.

I've dragged mine all over the place (a week bushwacking in Alaska, etc.) and it's

performed wonderfully. Yeah, it's a bit heavier than the FM-10, but not that much.

So anyway, those were my thoughts. But if you or someone else gets an FM-10 and it

functions well, I agree that the lightness is a real asset on long hikes! Enjoy.

Happy shooting, all.

In response to Barnard, I would avoid the FM-10. I bought one several years ago and

it soon died. The light meter was inaccurate, and the circuitry stopped working if the

exposure was set at 1/8 sec or slower. I brought it in for repair at a local

reputable Nikon shop, and they said these cameras often had such problems and

weren't worth repairing. Also, the lens that came with it in the kit was so bad that

even 4x6 inch prints were blurry! My son took photograghy in high school, and about

1/2 of the class bought FM-10 cameras -- all were broken by the end of the year

(unlike those who used other Nikon manual camera). It is a dog, isn't even made by

Nikon, and IMHO shouldn't be sold by Nikon.

That said, I'd consider the FE-2 as an option as one of the best laid out cameras ever

made. (Even though it has "pseudo" mirror lock up). I have one and love it. I'd love to

get my hands on an F3HP one of these days also.

Bob Y.

It's nice to see the FE2 viewfinder coming out so well on this somewhat quantitative

test -- I am impressed with how big and sharp mine is every time I use it. Also, it

would be interesting to see the results of some Canon cameras assessed using the

same test (EOS A2, Rebel, etc.) -- I largely switched from Canon to Nikon because of

my subjective impression the the viewfinders were generally better on Nikon and I felt

I simply couldn't manually focus my EOS A2.

I just got back from Japan, and when I went to get print film in a store there, I saw

tons of the Venus

film but no XTRA. I couldn't figure out from talking to people if this is what they're

calling XTRA or a new film.

Wasn't able to tell from their Japanese website either. I'm shooting a roll now of the

Venus, so it would be interesting to know what's in my camera, although my guess is

that it wouldn't be that different from XTRA in any case. Maybe it's like their XTRA vs.

Press film, which seem to be just about the same if not identical.

I'll second the above recommendations for the 28-105 AF - it is a great all-purpose

lens and quite sharp. With regard to the camera, however, you may want to rethink

the F401 -- the early Nikon AF cameras were pretty primative and frustrating. I'd

seriously consider an N80 -- either new (although it will be more than the F401 and

I'm afraid I can't make up the difference) or second hand (excellent condition ones

can be bought at KEH for $225). Also, here you get to the problem that AIS

lenses can't meter with the N80 -- you need AF lenses. If you can cough up enough

for a used F100, you'll be able to use AIS lenses,

but even used (excellent) an F100 is $550 or so. Another thing to consider is a MF

camera with aperature priority shooting -- like the FE-2. If you are good at focusing,

you'll find this will be quite useful for most situations, except for certain

sports.

Have fun!

Bob Y.

I have the lens and have a bit of a love-hate relationship with it. It dosn't have a great

feel -- the push-pull is annoying as is the fact that it gets longer at 35mm, the focal

range is somewhat limited, and I wonder what Nikon was thinking when they included

the micro focusing at the 35mm end (?). (Anyone use this in their photography?). But

it is reasonably fast, isn't too heavy, is affordable and takes VERY VERY sharp

pictures. A number of photo.net members have commented favorably on the

sharpness of the lens. So I often find myself putting it on my F100 for slides when

I'm taking a day hike or a city walk with my camera.

All this said, I'd take it if the price were right.

GHajo

Seems like more planned buying than I would do at this stage. I applaud the F80

(great camera) and the 50 1.8D. I see the 28-70 gets good reviews -- I would

alternately consider the 28-105D lens, which gives a bit more length and can be used

to explore some macro work. You may want to consider next a tripod and a yellow

filter (if doing B&W). My advice would be to hold off on more equipment purchases

for some time to see where your photographjy takes you and instead spend the

money on film. Consider joining a local camera club to interact with other

enthusiasts.

I frankly don't see there is any point in making a list now of what you would buy next

-- just see where things take you. Maybe you would want a prime medium telephoto

(like the 85mm 1.8D) for portraits with blurred background. Maybe a really wide

angle (like the 24mm 2.8D). I'm not sure I'd get the F301 -- you can use the F80 in

manual mode, and if you decide you want a real manual camera with a great

viewfinder, I'd suggest instead a Nikon classic like a used FE-2 or even a used F3HP.

If you want to take sports pictures, you may want to consider a longer telephoto (like

the old 75-300 AF). Who knows, you may even find that after some time you want to

pick up a digital SLR. I'm not sure I'd even get a flash at this time -- I ran out and

bought a good flash quite early, but don't use it that much except for family shots

indoors. My biggest advice is to hold off on your purchases until you play with your

camera and two lenses a bit and see where your interests take you.

Have fun.

Bob Y.

Thanks to all who answered - it is interesting (and helpful) to see how others wind up

dividing their shooting when they have both MF and modern AF Nikon SLRs readily at

hand. I agree this isn't a real division (say as much as film vs digital), but it says

something about the strengths and weaknesses of of each of the tools as they apply

to different situations. I grew up shooting slides on a Nikkomat FS (using a handheld

light meter) so I'm not afraid to meter slides without matrix or spot metering. But

even so, I often find myself using the F100 to shoot slides these days because the

Matrix and Spot metering seem to give more keepers exposure-wise. Sounds like

many of you out there feel less concerned about just using center weighted metering.

In addition to the sheer pleasure of handling a manual Nikon, it seems that the big

plusses are the viewfinder (IMHO, not even the F100 matches my FE-2), its

ruggedness, and small size (especially in a case with a prime lens anywhere up to 100

mm). And yes, I agree with all who have said that it's fun taking photos with any of

the cameras under discussion here.

Thanks again for your thoughts and to anyone else who wants to offer their 2 cents

(and as well to photo.net for making this discussion possible)!

I'm interested to hear how other Nikon users divide their shooting among MF and AF

SLRs. I currently have an N80, an F100, and an FE-2. I absolutely love the feel of the

FE-2, and it is my favorite for backpacking, largely because of its size and

ruggedness. However, I find myself more often using the N80 and the F100 for slides

and color prints when not backpacking -- usually the N80 for prints, especially of

people when fill-flash is

useful - and the F100 for slides (because of the superior metering capabilities). My

sense is that I have a higher percentage of off-metered slides with the FE-2 than the

F100. So as much as I love the FE-2, I find I use it largely for backpacking or B&W

prints where

metering is a bit less critical and where I'm less likely to

use fill flash. I know one can adjust the flash level with the FE-2, but it's a bit of a

pain, especially when shooting people. Finally, I should note that from my

perspective, one of the great advantages of the FE-2 for hiking is that it is so small

when in it's case -- I don't like hiking with an exposed camera, and find all the cases

for the F100 or N80 to be much buliker than the FE-2 case.

This said, I'm wondering how others who have both a MF Nikon and a good modern

AF Nikon SLR divide their shooting --and why.

Bob Y.

This is one of the age-old questions. My first lens for a Nikon AF camera was a 28-

105, and it is still a lens I often use. It can be used as a macro lens as well, so you

get a lot of bang for your buck. If you want to go the prime route, I've gone on trips

with a 35mm f2.0 and an 85mm prime 1.8 and done very well. Adding a 24mm 2.8

would round things out. If that bumps up your budget too much, you could try the

24, 50, and 85 -- getting some 2nd hand, you could probably cut costs. Only thing

is I would strongly counsel AGAINST is getting a used 35mm f2.0D -- so many have

had oil leaks on the blades (causing the diaphragm not to close to your set f stop and

overexposing film) that I would only get this lens new and make sure to send in the

5-yr warranty card.

If you're primarily using primes with your N80, you may want to instead consider a

manual camera like the FE-2 -- you can then get some used AI or AIS lenses which

are pretty cheap these days. They make a very nice combination.

Have fun!

I'd like to second the concern about oil on the aperture blades in 35 2.0 AFD lenses

-- I bought one secondhand that had this problem. So yes, it is a real problem with

the 35 2.0 AFD lenses. Also bought a Nikon 50 1.8 AF new that had it (and I didn't

send in the 5-year warranty card!). I had to get rid of both lenses, and wound up

buying new replacements for both last year (and sent in the 5 year warranty cards!).

I would avoid buying any used Nikon 35 2.0 AF or AFD or 50 1.8 AF lenses for this

reason -- it appears to be an extremely common problem, especially among the

35 2.0 lenses!

That said, I love both lenses, and my usual backpacking or light travel kit is a 35mm

2.0 and an 85mm 2.0 AIS or 85mm 1.8 AFD lens with either my FE2 or my N80.

Enjoy.

Bob Y.

There's a big difference between 24mm and 28mm, and I think one of the first things

you need top decide is which you want. I have the 24/2.8 AFD, the 85/1.8 AFD, and

the 85/2.0 AIS (which I usually use on my FE-2). I can highly recommend all three,

although for your purposes, I would suggest especially the 24/2.8 AFD and the 85/

1.8 AFD. Both are a pleasure to use, and will work well with your F100. It's perhaps a

shame Nikon doesn't make a 105/2.8 AFD lens, but I'm not sure I'd get the 105 micro

unless you in fact want to do micro work. Many rave about the 105/2.8 AIS, and I'd

perhaps look at that as well...

You're chosing among a number of fine lenses here, and I don't think you'll go wrong

with any. Enjoy!

To From Earth..

If you shoot mostly portraits, why not consider the 85mm F2.0 AIS -- you can pick it

up from KEH. That is the lens I usually keep on my FE-2 (very similar to the FM3a).

While you say you only want one lens, in future you can also pick up a 35mm AIS --

the two make a great walk-around set of lenses. With regard to your original post, if

you get a 35 mm I would go with the MF (f2 or 1.4). A number of older Nikon 35mm

f2 AF lenses had a problem with oil leaking on the diaphragm blades, causing it to

sometimes stick (and overexpose film). I had this problem with a 35 f2 I had bought

second-hand. IF you decide to go with the Nikon 35 f2.0 AF lens, buy it new so you

get the 5-year warranty.

Whatever you buy, I think you'll enjoy using the FM3a -- the experience complements

that of the Canon AF cameras.

Sander's info on Nikon's recent sales of digital, SLR, etc. is very interesting. I tried to

find similar info for Canon, but couldn't. Does anyone have access to recent similar

info for Canon? It would be very interesting to see how they compare...

Chris

I would avoid the FM-10. I picked up one a few years ago for hiking. The zoom that

came with it was so bad that even 4x6 snapshots were blurry. I gave it to my son

when he took a high school photo class (along with a 50mm 1.8). After about 8

months of use, the meter broke (wouldn't work with slow shutter speeds). We

brought it to a Nikon repair shop in DC (Strauss photo) who said it wasn't worth

repairing. My son reports that many of the kids in his class bought FM-10s and by

the end of the school year they were almost all broken. I think Nikon should be

ashamed of itself for selling it under the Nikon name.

I would look at some of the used more solid Nikon SLRs on KEH. Or even one of their

transitional cameras (like the 2020) and use it in manual mode. I picked up a used

FE-2 in excellent plus condition from KEH and it is wonderful. It has performed

through several week-long backpacking trips, etc. I frankly think that if you buy an

FM-10 you'll be throwing away your hard-earned money.

Just my 2 cents. Whatever you get, enjoy.

Agree it is a great and very useful lens -- when going on a short hike or day shoot,

find this plus the 35mm a great prime pair. It seems odd that Nikon doesn't make a

basic 105mm AF-D lens -- they have only the macro and the DC. Yet the 105mm 2.5

(and 1.8) MF lenses have been among their most popular. Although I have the macro

105 AF, it is pretty heavy (and expensive), and I often wish they had a light 105mm

2.5 AF. Do others agree on this? Any ideas as to why Nikon skipped this particular

lens?

Bob Y.

Your post seems to cry for a MF Nikon, and as others have said, there are many that

are a joy to use. One deciding point is whether you want aperture priority (so you can

shoot more on the fly when exhausted on a backpack trip) or want to be completely

manual. IMHO, the MF Niknos with AP are the apex of the manual focus line -- for

your needs, I would suggest:

FE-2 from around 1983. You can get from KEH. Need batteries, but they are very

light and last a year anyway. Has TTL flash -- little tricky to reduce flash output for

fill flash, but can be done (see photo.net postings). KEH can also sell you an old

manual.

FM3a, Currently produced slightly updated version of the FE-2. Pricier. Easy to do -

1/2

stop fill flash.

F3 (F3HP if you wear glasses). A bit heavier, but very sturdy and some love them.

Haven't used myself, but do hanker after one.

We have an FM2n at home, but I find the diode metering somewhat of a pain,

especially if

you're trying to take a picture on the fly when tired during backpacking. I would

avoid the FM10,

which doesn't deserve the Nikon brand name and as far as I know isn't made by them

-- metering is awful, and it tends to break within the first 2 years. Obviously a

cheaper AF camera woud meet some of your needs (like the N80), but sounds like this

would be agood time to pick up a MF Nikon.

I had an old Nikkormat FS that I used to take all over the place backpacking, and it

never had a problem. I picked up an FE-2 a couple of years ago, and it performed

admirably on a 1-week bushwacking trip in Wrangell-St. Elias park in Alaska last

summer. I brought along an 85mm AIS and 35mm AF lens. I also carried a Yashika

T4 super along as a light-weight backup and for color neg film, and got great shots

from that as well.

Enjoy!