My first nude

Lannie: In my opinion, there is nothing to discuss when someone has an argument which says:

"...I refuse to think any differently just because a few ignorant individuals muddy up the waters..." Not at all.

Hay mucho para discutir aqui aparte de esta frase de Jayme, incluyendo el silencio de Marina. La foto sin explicacion es muy, muy ofensiva.

 

Lo que Jayme ha dicho es "I like to think I live in a world which is just and caring." Yo tambien, pero a veces es dificil.

Y como justificas la primera oracion con la segunda. "Si no estan de acuerdo conmigo, son unos ignorantes". Por mas bien intencionada que sea su deseo, creo que es un argumento "moralmente incorrecto". Por lo que respecta al silencio de Marina, se me ocurre pensar (no prejuzgo) que hay que considerar que en Europa es temporada de vacaciones...

De todos modos, ella aclaro en su comentario del 10 de julio que la paciente esta sanisima.

Creo que aqui resalta la falta de sentido comun de critica: Lo que en principio era una imagen obviamente no morbosa sino ironica (el titulo de la imagen) ha sido totalmente mal interpretada. Pero ese no es el problema. El problema es juzgar de "inmoral" aquello que se desconoce. Es un claro reflejo del ambiente de "miedo" que se vive en su pais. Miedo a lo desconocido. Miedo del projimo. Miedo a si mismo. Miedo a ser demandado por "HUGE" amounts of money, simplemente porque alguien puede hacerlo. Es increible y preocupante a la vez.

Jayme

Discussing with you is extremely annoying since you are arrogant to a superlative degree, nevertheless I will try to dialog with you, to make any sense of this discussion. I point to you some of your sentences that are difficult to swallow: < So back off! I'm a RN and my middle name is "Patient Advocate"> (by the way what is RN?) nothing that favors dialogue, and this < Are any of you medical professionals? If not, bite your lip and hush!> please! since when being a medical professional entitles you to make final moral statements? I guess you think that only medical professionals may have opinions, it is hard to sustain this when doctors make often mistakes even in the medical field, not to name other area of the social life. And this one is a jewel < Medical Ethics is very similar in most countries because the USA educates a vast majority of Physicians worldwide > It is arrogant in a continental scale and wrongly sustained. How much is a vast majority? Do you know that in the US are more Argentinean, Chilean, Venezuelan etc. Physicians (see WHO statistics) trained in their own countries than physicians from those countries trained in the US working in their own country. In fact brain drain is a mayor problem for underdeveloped countries and not only in the medical field.

 

I come back to your assumptions. All your argumentation is based on a very thin knowledge on Marina. About her you only know that she is photographer, that she works in the medical field and that she is Spanish. Why then you suppose that she acted wrongly? That she had not release from her patient? Not because she is a photographer, I assume, neither because she is in a health care profession, then it must be because she is Spanish. Please the world is going very, very bad because some people are making judgments on peoples intentions based on nationality. You may think what you like, but look the world we are living in, I assure you that it is not loving nor caring. If you dont want to see how things are is your business, but please dont judge people based only on your prejudices.

 

Jayme what makes a dialog difficult here is that you start from very sound principles, that I, and I think almost everybody here, share, but when you applies them to this concrete situation you betray them yourself. Besides you write in a way that irritates your eventual interlocutor. It is funny buy I agree fully with your ethical principles:

or < it is unacceptable behavior to exploit any patient >. It is true that < Medical Ethics is very similar in most countries > (stressing very) but not its practice, but that is another thing. I agree too that < it is Medical Ethics, not cultural ethics > and that .

 

Anyhow I think that you state, in a complete wrong way, a very important problem for us photographers, professionals or amateurs. Which is what is ethical acceptable in photography. The problem is not knew, is open to discussion and by not means has been said the last word of it. I am concerned with this problem, I have been thinking on it for some time and I have no ready-made answers. There are many photos I don?t like but I think are necessary (World Press exhibitions every year are not nice but illustrative of some real situations). There are photos that in one context will be unacceptable but the same photos can be right in other situations (remember the photos taken in Abu Dahbi prison, as private joke were abusive, as testimony in a trial served justice). The doctor that operated my wife took photos of her breasts, if it were for him and his friends entertainment would be wrong, but he show them in a medical conference.

 

Now, in relationship with this photo, I wont discuss its photographic merits, it is outstanding. But I think there are two questions here: 1. Is it ethical to show a photo of a patient? 2. It is right to show suffering? To both I answer you yes and no. In case one if the patient allows it why not. Somebody may think that the artistic merit of the photo is enough reason to let it publish. Or may have any other reason; this is strictly an agreement between the doctor-photographer and the patient. As it is with any other model, naked or dressed; assuming there is no abuse whatever. The second question is more tricky because usually you dont have the possibility to ask release from the suffering person, but, as a provisional answer, I would say that you may show suffering if by doing this you improve consciousness of people that are going to see the photo. But on this I have to elaborate more to have a solid opinion.

 

Finally I agree with you too that the title of the photo is not very happy, in general I dont like titles on photos, less in this one.

 

Firstly, I do watch world news and do know the world is not a really wonderful place to live in. I am NOT arrogant, never have been and I am not about to start now.

 

Secondly, the world is a conglomeration of real people. Individually, the majority are just like you or I. I believe it is collectively, that people can become either good, bad or indifferent.

 

Thirdly, I assume nothing about anybody. As they say in my country, assuming makes an ass out of u & me. RN stands for Registered Nurse (26 years).

 

As for all the other dialog, it was a little hard to follow, but the points we agree on:

 

1-Medical ethics is different from cultural ethics.

 

2-The title of this image is bad!

 

Let us agree to disagree. I think you assumed a few things about me that are erroneous. You assumed I am arrogant because I said a vast majority of the world's physicians are educated in the USA. Sorry, but from the info I see, it is true. As for the "brain drain". Years ago I spoke at length with a Physician from India. He had moved his family to the USA and had to re-educate himself through the US medical education process. I asked him why he did not stay in India where many of his country men needed assistance. He then explained Indian cultural morays to me. Humm...., not real pleasant. He then explained that if he stayed in India, he would not be able to offer his children a higher education. After quite a long discussion, I came to understand. I had a similar conversation with a physician from Pakistan last year. So please, don't think I do not understand, I do. Do I have any answers? Not me. Heck, my husband is a physician. If he had it to do all over again, I am not sure he would choose the same path. I know that after 26 years as a nurse, I know that if I could have a "do over", I'd skip nursing altogether. I'd be a photographer :) Would I photograph people in agony? Again, as you say, it depends, if by photographing their agony, it would have a positive impact on the world as we know it, I would. But if it is just to scoop someone else, NO! Or do it because I can, NO!

 

And lastly, I just wanted to know if there were any medical professions in this discussion. I by no means meant medical professionals were more intelligent than the usual crowd. Remember, I'm looking from the inside out, not the outside in. I know the reality. :)

 

What ever the answer, this image is NOT going to change the world. And as I said, the TITLE annoys me more than the image.

 

And no, I only took 1 year of Spanish. Can't read or speak it. Wish I could. I did however pass 4 years of Latin. Little good that did me! :) Sure helped me figure out a few medical terms, but that's about it. :) I have several Spanish friends, does that count? :) Just kidding! Have a wonderful night or day were ever you are!

Genius.

 

B&W photography as good as it can be.

I guess you should look at the work with an open mind and use your fantasy.

 

Kind regards.

I've read atonished the discussion above. The photo is a really good one, although I can understand it is of not for everybody taste. But this is photo.net, a forum for showing and commenting photos, to judge photos, and not the people behind the camera. To start the discussion with expression such us 'shame on you' or out of place comparisons between the high and low moral values we have is, let me said, the opposite I expect to find in this web site.

 

'I find this photo too much intrusive' or 'the title is not fortunate' are appropriate coomments in case that is your opinion. Phto.net admit the summary trial to the photos showed, no to the people. I do not know whether Marina is or not in holiday, but I would not expect her reaction to these very unfortunate personal critics to her. First, as said above, this is not the forum for this kind of comments; second, to make these kind of statements one should have an in depth knowledge of the one he/she is critizising, and I'm afraid this is not the case here.

I would suggest those so interested in this kind of personal assessment to use photo.net for the less interesting exercise of commenting photos and to enrol in the Slavation Army for the their more moralist comments.

Everbody here would thank the decision.

Definitely!

Mauricio, get a grip. My comment in no way reflects an environment of fear in this country, nor fear of the unknown.

 

I don't support Bush nor his ridiculous war, and I don't feel threatened, not by external forces nor by this photo. I simply feel that there are foundational ethical principles that might have been violated, and I hope that Marina will deign to explain how this can be justified. I am not saying that there is no justification, but I certainly do not apologize for asking for it.

 

No one is being accused or indicted here. I am simply asking for an explanation.

 

Thank you for muddying the waters even more. You would think that I had dishonored Marina somehow in asking for an explanation.

 

Manuel, Photo.net is an EXCELENTISIMO place to ask questions like this.

 

--Lannie

ONE MORE CHALLENGE:

 

How would it be possible to get prior consent to TAKE a photo of a patient in this condition? Even if one were somehow able to get consent prior to PUBLICATION of the photo on PN, that would not answer the first question. If I go to a hospital in an injured state, I don't want any pictures made of me except for strictly medical reasons--and those should at the very least preserve the anonymity of the patient from the general public.

 

These are not questions for this or that culture in particular. They are general questions for thoughtful persons in ALL cultures.

 

YES, DISCUSSIONS OF THE ETHICS OF PHOTOGRAPHY ARE DEFINITELY JUSTIFIED ON PHOTO.NET. Such questions frequently arise when photos of accident victims are posted, as they are from time to time. This one is no different that I can tell--except that it appears to have been taken by a health care professional.

 

If this is a setup, and not a real patient, that is quite another thing. So far, however, Marina has only said, "Preparing the patient to start surgery."

 

If we are to take her at her word (and I have no reason not to do so), then we are most definitely justified in asking a doctor what in the world he or she is doing taking this kind of shot when one should be caring for the patient and continuing preparations for surgery.

 

If it is a setup and not a real patient, then I consider it a very bad joke.

 

--Lannie

Well put Lannie. I also, made no judgements about Marina's personal morals. Please re-read my comments. I voiced my opinion about posting such an image of a vulnerable human being, in a very vulnerable (preop) position, with a title, I felt was disrespectful to the patient. That is basically what I meant. Flippant = disrespectful. "My First Nude" Please give me a break! Marina must be on holiday (or vaction as we say here in the states).

 

I also, did NOT vote for George, I don't agree with much he does (personally, I think he's just not very smart & makes us Americans look even duller for voting him back in, but that's another story). I am not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water, Americans are basically good human beings. Let's just say I'll be glad when he returns to Texas permanently. This too shall pass!

 

But, I will NOT apologize for being an American, nor would I expect any other nationality to apologize to me. I will not apologize for having an opinion. I called no one any nasty names, I made no judgements about the photographer, I was just concerned for the patient. That's all! We are all different, that's what makes the world go round. I like diversity, it is a breeding ground of knowledge.

 

So cool off! I meant absolutely no disrespect to anyone! Even George!

Ah, Jayme! I agree with you on so much, but I would like to express the utmost disrespect for King George and his children's crusade. (Well, a lot of soldiers being sent over are barely eighteen. No wonder we call them "the infantry": "Les enfants.") And the Iraqis that we are killing! Oh!! Who are the terrorists here? We are about to have Saddam Hussein put up on a show trial while King George pontificates in such a sanctimonious manner. I think that he is a war criminal, too.

 

As for being born a U.S. citizen, I am neither proud nor ashamed of it, since I had nothing to do with it. Citizenship is simply an accident of birth, not unlike bastardy in that regard. I am rather glad to be a human being, however. In the words attributed to Socrates, "I am not a citizen of Athens nor of Greece, but of the world."

Landrum, I agree with you on Socrates, but please remember that he was forced to suicide for having such "free" thinkings :). About the picture taken by Marina, I would like to show you some pictures I took in a Spanish hospital in a typical Spanish city about 300,000 ha in population. Please, only point your browser to:

www.holos-photo.com

 

Then, after clicking on the central image, only chose the "Hospital" link. When I took picture #7, I assured myself to hide and preserve the patient's identity. By the way, I'm not professionally related to medicine (although my wife is a MD). I'm only a RA.

By the way, I perfectly understand the point of view of Jayme, but please take into account that Marina has also preserved the patient's identity. In fact, and due to contrast, lighting, framing and other chosen photographic considerations, I doubt even her patient wouldn't recognize herself in the picture. The image is strong, that's for sure, but it's not the type of picture that "journalists" love to show us dayly in the news on TV.

Thanks, Luis, for the great photos and commentary.

 

I am an ethicist by training, and Jayme is a nurse by training. In addition, I had the misfortune to spend nine days in a hospital last December, my first hospitalization since a tonsillectomy at the age of six.

 

Those facts, combined with the fact that hospitals are nearly "total" institutions, make me very leary of any further intrusions on the rights of the unfortunate persons who happen to find themselves at the mercy of medical professionals even in the best of circumstances.

 

I can see that this is a good photo on its technical merits, as is your own, and I will not deny that it is a powerful image. Unfortunately, it evokes different emotions for us, all powerful. I can identify too much with this patient as a patient, and I think that Jayme can identify not only as a nurse but as a woman--thus her indignation at playfully naming this a "nude." Certain things do not lend themselves to a playful treatment.

 

There are certain things that also probably should not be in the public eye. They are not the public's business. This is very personal space. I don't want strangers in my personal space without good reason when I am that vulnerable. The merits of the photo qua photo will not change that. Individual rights trump the usual photographic criteria for me on this one.

 

Nonetheless, I appreciate your reasoned response and the opportunity to view your most excellent photos.

 

Thanks.

 

--Lannie

The insistent tone of morality lessons that continuously come from Jamie and, specially, her unfounded statement that the US is training a majority of practitioners of the medical world (implying, perhaps, that we "aboriginals of poor uneducated countries" should behave and keep silent) prompt me to remind her of several facts:

1.- Medical ethics are conducted based on the rules of ICH-GCP, an international document jointly prepared by Europe, Asia and Japan following the Helsinki declaration. The USA only joined in 1993...

2.- Followig are extracts from the internationaldocument:

QUOTE

2.1 Clinical trials should be conducted in accordance with theethical principles that have their origin in the Declaration ofHelsinki, and that are consistent with GCP and the applicableregulatory requirement(s).

2.2 Before a trial is initiated, foreseeable risks and inconveniencesshould be weighed against the anticipated benefit for the individualtrial subject and society. A trial should be initiated and continuedonly if the anticipated benefits justify the risks.

2.3 The rights, safety, and well-being of the trial subjects are themost important considerations and should prevail over interests ofscience and society.

2.4 The available nonclinical and clinical information on aninvestigational product should be adequate to support the proposedclinical trial. Clinical trials should be scientifically sound, anddescribed in a clear, detailed protocol.

2.6 A trial should be conducted in compliance with the protocol thathas received prior institutional review board (IRB)/independentethics committee (IEC) approval/favourable opinion.

2.7 The medical care given to, and medical decisions made on behalfof, subjects should always be the responsibility of a qualifiedphysician or, when appropriate, of a qualified dentist.

2.8 Each individual involved in conducting a trial should bequalified by education, training, and experience to perform his orher respective task(s).

2.9 Freely given informed consent should be obtained from everysubject prior to clinical trial participation.

2.10 All clinical trial information should be recorded, handled, andstored in a way that allows its accurate reporting, interpretationand verification.

2.11 The confidentiality of records that could identify subjectsshould be protected, respecting the privacy and confidentiality rulesin accordance with the applicable regulatory requirement(s).

2.12 Investigational products should be manufactured, handled, andstored in accordance with applicable good manufacturing practice(GMP). They should be used in accordance withthe approved protocol.

2.13 Systems with procedures that assure the quality of every aspectof the trial should be implemented.>>

UNQUOTE

3.-IMHO, Professor Dr. Población, reputed and highly respected member of Academia and the medical profession, author of this remarkable photograph, is strictly complying with ruling 2.11 above. And she does so in a carefully sensitive manner not to speak of its great photographic values

I cannot, finally, refrain from suggesting to my dear fellow photo.netters, citizens of the US, that these are not times when they should indulge in giving lessons on ethics or morality to the rest of the world.

Many of us have good memory and know the kind of gross lies that were used by their freely re-elected leader.

We cannot forget what still goes on in Guantanamo, or the fact that an International agreement to prosecute war criminals are not ratified by your government.

Clearly, again, no times to give Ethical lessons to anyone.

Finally, I thank a fellow photo.netter, a reputed Mexican brain surgeon, lecturer and professor, for pointing me to the text of the ICH-GCP.

Alberto- I thank you for providing proof that medical ethics IS similar world wide.

 

Further more: Complying with rule 2:11:" The confidentiality of records that could identify subjects should be protected, respecting the privacy and confidentiality rules in accordance with the applicable regulatory requirement(s)." I don't believe that posting this image on the web, with such a disrespectful title, complies with these rules? You have proven my point, and much better than I did.

 

Again- My only concern was for the privacy of the patient & their condition, PLUS the disrespectful title, "My First Nude". Why not put a pair of panties on his head? Obviously, that causes outrage!

 

I am sure, you are aware of leaders in the history of your country & other nations (not the USA), whom were NOT supported by their people, but somehow they came to power. I feel that we, as Americans, have been fooled, lied to, and distracted (by 9/11) into believing we needed to right some wrongs. But......... as a whole, we CAN speak our minds, no matter how SIMPLE our minds may be. Most of us do NOT live in fear of disappearing in the middle of the night and never being heard of again. At least not as of yet! I pray it never happens here.

 

But as usual, the news agencies around the world only cover the BAD a few do. Need I remind you that thousand of our soldiers came to the rescue & lost their lives while assisting in the liberation of Europe in WWII. The fact that Sadam & his family murdered thousands (as evidenced by the mass graves in Iraq & eye witness testimony) on their personal whims. I feel that if this is true, it is outrageous.

 

I get the feeling you may have begun to believe all the news hype? Please, give us a little more credit than OUR current government does. I DO NOT live in fear of a terrorist attack. In fact, here in the USA, an American is more likely to be killed by a causal household fall, (over 10,000 people killed each year in the USA by household falls) than killed by a terrorist. We are much more likely to be killed by a drunk driver while dropping our children off at school. DO NOT believe the almighty news caster's HYPE. We are NOT all living in fear of terrorism! We do NOT all believe all Moslems are a threat. We do NOT all believe all Italians belong to the mafia. We are NOT all threatened by the number of foreign born Americans. This is silly & stupid!

 

I think that because certain "abnormal" Americans get most of the news hype, many believe the majority of Americans are LIKE these people. Not so! We are, as a whole, hard working, kind, caring individuals willing to give our hard earned money, our time and our hearts to helping others less fortunate than ourselves, not necessarily just other Americans.

 

Regarding your verbal attack on me. You stated, "The insistent tone of morality lessons that continuously come from Jamie" (spelled jaYme) .

 

It is MY opinion that this image & especially the title, is in bad taste. I AM entitled to my opinion am I not? Just because it is MY opinion, I realize, it does not make it a fact. If you feel I "continuously" spew morality lessons, that's too bad. I am sorry my "morality lessons" offend you. However, using words like 'continuously" are synonymous with "always" and "never" in the American language. Probably not your best choice of words when making an argument in your favor. They tend to invalidate your arguments :) So again, re-read my words. They were not meant to offend or make a moral judgment of anyone.

 

Your statement about me hardly makes it true, any more than a high ranking image on PN's TRP defines an outstanding image. You lack enough information about me to be able to make an accurate assessment of my character. I realize I may have upset you with the statement about the education of Physicians, I apologize if I was wrong. Some facts supporting your disagreement would have been appropriate.

 

You also wrote:

 

"I cannot, finally, refrain from suggesting to my dear fellow photo.netters, citizens of the US, that these are not times when they should indulge in giving lessons on ethics or morality to the rest of the world."

 

I feel this statement is sadly, very hypocritically devout of you. In other words, kind of sanctimonious, don't you think? The cliches "People in glass houses should not throw stones" comes to mind. Or maybe the one about the "Pot calling the kettle black?" I am not sure if these translate well into your language. I hope so.

 

So finally, I also can not refrain from pointing out something that is so gloriously obvious to 99.9% of all Americans. We are the MOST multi-culturally diverse nation on the face of the earth. "Americans" have come together from all over the world, for good & bad, to form a collective culture unlike anything ever known before. Being called an American is definitely a unique thing. In my small community of less than 10,000 people, I know lots of African-Americans, Italian-Americans, Korean-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Bosnian-Americans, Vietnamese-Americans, German-Americans, Australian-Americans, English-Americans, Mexican-Americans, American Indians, Indian-Americans, Pakistani-Americans, Iranian-Americans, Iraqi-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Irish-Americans, need I go on? Plus any combination of the above & much more. My ancestors were Irish, English, German & who knows what else. Amazingly, we have all come together to create what you call an "American". So..... I respectfully suggest you open your mind & think a little more globally. These "Americans" you so sanctimoniously suggest should refrain from giving lessons on morality & ethics to the rest of the world, are not only Americans but also members of every culture in the rest of the world. Is it any wonder we consistently extend a helping hand to others, even if it's not a popular decision by many others in the world.

 

So,..... unfortunately, I feel because of our cultural diversity, we are destined to frequently teeter on the brink of controversy. Maybe because Americans are so culturally diverse, it affords (gives) us the ability to see a bigger picture.

 

I'm very proud to be called an American! Thanks!

This thread has turned in to a discussion regarding culture etc.. and that is fine - but in the middle of all this debate about codes of conduct and "America bashing" which in my view is completely unwarranted (I'm not American BTW, but English) the possible/potential violation of a patient's privacy and dignity has been forgotten.

 

This is about morals as well folks, and to take a picture of a patient in such a vulnerable condition, without their consent, is completely immoral and unjustifiable in my view.

 

Interestingly Marina has not come forward to either confirm or deny that permission was sought, and given for this image to be taken.

 

As for the title... well.. words escape me.

WWII?

 

What's the relationship between WWII and this picture? Maybe the thread is drifting a little bit OT.

Bruno- I am guessing OT= off topic?

 

WWII = An analogy, brought on by Alberto's uncontrollable need to pontificate "that these are not times when they (Americans) should indulge in giving lessons on ethics or morality to the rest of the world." I happen to feel that indifference to other's suffering (an analogy that referrences not only this particular image but other world events) has been proven to be a mistake in any country, not just mine.

 

Tim- Thanks for your thoughts. Maybe it will make a differece coming from someone who is NOT an "American" :) I agree, why have we not heard from Marina? Long holiday?

 

 

Quien insulta al arte como es esta foto???........ el que no sabe....

 

Curra: fantastica foto, te felicito!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Talk about Assuming! Hum........

an amazing image, I just saw it and it is really amazing. Strong yet sensitive, long time that I have seen something that good in photo.net. The title of the image also has a dark bitter humour that as I see a lot of people in the thread do not understand and think is insulting. I disagree and I think that the title is appropriate. I think that it is safe to assume that the photgrapher knew what he was doing except if someone has evidence of the contrary. This is not a court, this is a photography site and the thread goes into an attack assuming possible situations (we can open a detective's forum for that). The photographer, and correctly to my opinion, has not answered because he did not ask us our opinion about medical ethics. We have to assume that she covered this aspect. Photography is made from telling how the world works and this means usually strong images and telling bitter stories to my opinion. Also i think that it does not help when discussing to critique images to state where we come from and which country we live in, also making comparisons that degrade other nations (I do not see what it has to do with the image, framing, lighting etc.). I hope that the person in the photograph is well.

Thanks , thanks everybody for your time and all kind of comments. As a courageus supported the freedom a feel myself very pleasant for this thread on my pages.

 

Unfortunately I was working far away from my home, whithout internet connection and I could?nt follow the thread.

 

I must answer many questions you are asking me, but before I?d like to ask you .....

Why not a thread about this pic ?

 

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1931232

 

or this one ?

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1984527

 

or maybe that one?

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2238020

 

When I posted them I was looking forward to know your opinions about .... the poverty, the unhealthiness on some countries, or prehaps about how spreaded the Kalavniskov guns are, even in primitive tribal groups, but I felt most of you tourned the eyes away to see another pics, trying to avoid to be involved on this kind of real important problems of the world . Why???

 

I am the same person, it is the same finger that pressed the shooter but with two different an almost opposite goals: In this pic the only goal was to instigate to begin a thread but in this particular case i took the pic only for a aesthetic reason and I posted it because I thought it is possible to find beauty, even in a striking place, as a surgery room.

Marina:

I feel proud to call you my friend even if I am an American too (from Mexico). That is not an assumption. You have the courage to travel this "not getting smaller" world and photograph all the sadness and real unfair world we are living. Against that, discussing about this thread, for me, means nothing, really nothing at all. Thinking of vulnerable situations...what can be worse? And yes, you do have images that reflect hapiness, beauty, positive messages too. This is what the real world is. Sometimes YOU have to go out of your "shell" and experiment what this world is all about: Smell, taste, hear, laugh, cry, and so on, to get an idea of who you are. Some people will never understand this.