Game over

Photography should be controversial.... Trevor Hopkins has raised a valid point...Most people who watch boxing don't get to see the end result.. I spent forty years as a doctor and have seen ex-boxers with total memory loss in their forties, as well as the severe movement disorders such as that of Muhammad Ali, who is seen in the accompanying photo at Harvard Medical School's Center for Neuroregeneration....He can hardly move now....Tragic.....I remember him as Cassius Clay, "moves like a butterfly and stings like a bee"....Not any more.....He is likely to be totally bedridden within ten years....

 

I am not advocating the abolition of boxing, for that would drive it underground like dogfighting.....Just remember there is a dark side to Tomm's photo, which none of you will see.

Superb image! BW/sepia makes it virtually timeless!

This photo highlights how important the "be there" is in "f8 and be there"!

 

Excellent work. I've shot wrestling matches and have nothing to compare to this.

Enough already, the opening comments are over the top: "Too

perfect to be believed". Indeed.

 

Compositionally average, but the limits of the scene are to

blame as well, you did the best with what was there.

'Atmospheric' effect has less to do with skill and more to do with

lens flare and photoshop. Then there's the whole pixel problem.

(This shot will never look much better than it does on the monitor

because that's where it was created.) I'd have hidden the color

version, it spoils the idea this might be a photograph rather than

a capture.

 

Let the booing and hissing begin. Someone had to pop that

balloon.

As far as I am aware there has never been any concrete evidence that the onset of Parkinsons disease for Ali was a direct result of his boxing. There are literally thousands of boxers that never end up with Parkinsons, Alzheimer's or dimentia pugilistica (boxers syndrome). There are many other factors as (APOE 4 etc.) that contribute to a higher risk of becoming 'punch drunk'. Many of the 'old school' trainers coached in a style of defense (and often offense) where absorbing punches to the head was simply an unquestioned part of the game. Some of that has changed as more medical data has filtered down. Much of it comes down to talent - one has to be able to think and box in order to be a successful boxer. Boxing is not the only sport where it occurs - others such as football (soccer in the US) and American rules football get missed by the media as they are considered more politically correct at the moment. I suspect this may have something to do with the amount of revenue they generate as mainstream sports. Other 'combat sports' like Muay Thai have far fewer instances of 'boxers syndrome' as there are many more legal targets than are allowed in boxing. Diesel Noi the legendary Muay Thai champion fought mostly in the 80's when knee's to the groin were still a completely legal target.

 

In boxing positive changes have been the use and the endorsement of the WIPPS Jaw Joint Protector. Unlike traditional mouth guards, the Jaw-Joint Protector moves the jaw down and slightly forward, locking it in place. In this position, the impact of collision is absorbed by the protector and dispersed from, rather than directed to, the vulnerable jaw joint.

 

Endorsed by the National Dental Association, World Boxing Association and Golden Gloves of America Inc., this mouth guard is expected to become a standard for sports safety within the next few years.

 

 

 

Alex Thompson -

 

Sounds like a serious case of sour grapes. I knew eventually someone would pull out the 'capture' v.s. 'photography' chestnut. The image has obviously had a huge impact on many people - whether it was done in a digital darkroom or a wet darkroom is largley irrelevant to that end. I don't think it is 'compositionally average' - not given the constraints of the environment.

All I stated initially was thas PHOTOGRAPHY SHOULD BE CONTROVERSIAL...I didn't take sides...All I wrote was that I remember boxing in the 1940's and 50's, and SAW punchdrunk boxers staggering around a fairground ring trying to stay on their feet while lads of eighteen, pissed to the gills, were trying to land punches...It was exiting....

 

As for Muhammad Ali's severe movement disorder (I didn't call it Parkinson's disease), it is obviously due to central nervous damage of some cause, and if you've been repeatedly banged on the head for twenty years, then that should be placed high on the list of causes....

 

Tomm was good enough to provide the colour image which I had originally asked for, but he didn't answer my question whether he saw the LOSER (Game over, and all that) get back on his feet....Have you ever been concussed?...I have, following a motorbike accident in 1957, and I still have only very vague memories of how it happened....I woke up by the side of a highway with people gazing down at me and eventually got back on my Norton 500 and drove back into London....

 

I am defending Trevor Hopkins' point of view....He deserves some help, and I will stand with him....I may not be a boxer but I am always prepared to fight.....

 

Long live contoversial photographs!!!!!!!!!!!

Whatever else you are looking at, it is an image of brain damage -- that is what a KO is -- however artfully it was delivered. I made a film about Muhammad Ali some years back, and Angelo Dundee, his first trainer was adamant that boxing had played a role in Ali's condition (though it is something Ali himself has never been bitter about). He even told me the symptoms were well in evidence before Ali retired (during the Larry Holmes fight, for example). So yes, this is a decisive moment expertly captures. But that doesnt stop it being a pretty graphic image of boxing at its most controversial (which doesnt diminish the power of the image -- actually it enhances it). The face of the victorious boxer is a pretty good, and sobering study, of testosterone gone critical.

Let's not forget this is from the launch event of a new car. A few boxers are hired and the victory goes to the guy representing the "Caddy Team". The boxer representing "Ford Connect" (major competitor) flats out on the floor in a spectacular knock out. They did a good fight but I would be quite pissed off myself if a fellow boxer knocked me flat down unconscious under these circumstances. I believe these trained athletes knows a bit about punching range and falling techniques (just like in professional wrestling I suspect). I don't exactly remember the exit of the boxer on the floor but he was walking on his two feet.

Tomm, Do you think it was staged (i.e.acted) like the phoney wrestling that some people watch on North American TV?

Actually I think the 'sour grapes' comment was directed at me. But that would imply envy, which isn't the case; Niether regarding the image, nor the equipment used to make it.

 

The image standing on its merits is a good one, but I'm not jumping up and down about it.

Mr Hansen is pleased as punch to even be here, does every review need to be positive?

 

I stand by my prior post.

Robert Holmes: I honestly don't know. But like I said in a match where nothing is at stake except giving a good show I don't think they would hurt each other as much as this shot implies. That is if in a situation like this it's possible at all to control the punches.

 

Alexander Thompson: You're entitled to have any opinion you like of course. I disagree however that digital images does not look better in print than on monitor. That goes for film as well, scanned and posted on this site.

Nice lines! Visible in the black and white version more so then the color. I too love the ref holding back the fighter. This is a keeper.

Each person has and is entitled to have his own moral values, but I have very little interest in discussing such matters in a photography forum.

To the picture... Well, first, I certainly prefer the BW version in terms of aesthetics, simply because the blue of the ring is too much of an eyecatcher whereas it certainly isn't the main subject. Black and white, here, as in many cases, helps emphasizing the content, the story, and helps to get rid of distractions.

Secondly, I will join the crowd to applaude the use of wide angle, the usage made of the rope with this angle, to applaude as well the timing - which is exceptionnal. I also agree with Tony that the referee's hand is just great, and I need not see more nor less of the referee.

All this being said, I'll have to agree with Manual Rincon regarding the mild slant of this picture. Not that it bothers me all that much, but well, it's a small imperfection imo. Then, although I haven't read the entire thread, I have seen so far no mention about this foot and this empty space on the left, and that surprises me a little. Do we need this foot and this empty space on the left side of the frame - which is the "closed" side (behind the main boxer's back)...? I don't think so. I do believe that showing us more of the crowd on the right instead was a better decision. I do of course realize that the photographer may not have had the time to adjust everything perfectly, but here is imo a possible improvement. All else is just fabulous to me, and the picture deserves the acollade anyway. A very nice capture of the decisive moment indeed, and one which tells us not only about the action at hand, but also about the determination to win on one side, and the terrible fate of the loser on the other... Congrats !

You misunderstood me. The shot is from a corporate launch event and everything happened as fast-paced as in any ordinary match. It had nothing to do with advertising and as a photographer I had absolutely no impact on the scene whatsoever just like on any sports arena. The discussion is whether the boxer on the floor is really hurt as much as the shot implies.

. . . . like a Boy Scout and a photographer. It's a strong image and it has elicited strong opinions. . . In what appears to be one of the smarter and better collection of comments and discussion that I've seen here. So many comments come from drooling sycophants and wannabees. But not this time. Everyone (almost everyone) take a bow.

I'd have hidden the color version, it spoils the idea this might be a photograph rather than a capture.

 

Oh, please... In a day when virtually all prints for publication are either captured digitally or scanned I don't see your imaginary distinction. And what's with the comment about the photo never being any better than what it is on the monitor and then sniffing at the use of photoshop?

Great Shot

For reasons unknown to me, the photo.net front page does not refresh automatically. However, we really do have a new POW:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo.tcl?photo_id=2255358

Enjoy.

A absolutely superb photograph from the photographic viewpoint.

 

The subject matter leaves me feeling sick to my stomach.

 

Stephen Bishop

Thank for the info....Game Over was beginning to look like Picture of the Month!!....I'll move on to "The Piano", and meanwhile try to figure out the very strange behaviour of this website....

This seems like one of those images where the impact of the subject (perpetrator and victim of a head concussion) is the main event, as opposed to the merits of the actual photo. Mainly geared for the type who would be ringside.

The knowledge that the event was staged, with a preordained outcome as part of a car launch promotion, vitiates the impact this image has for me.

 

On a strictly formal level, I feel it could be strengthened by a horizontal crop:

 

http://members.rogers.com/saintjohnphotos/special/boxer-crop.jpg

You're suggested crop may give even better impact. I really never considered the crop and posted full frame as I just thought it was a cool shot worth sharing. The impact of 16mm hanging inside the ropes really made me rethink about what I would normally do if I was in a 'sports photographer' and not 'event photographer' role as here. Personally I do not rate pictures on sites like this for authenticity but for looks. Like if I see a good tiger shot I don't really care if it's in the wild or from some animal park. Then there is the whole discussion of manipulations....

Yeah, I'm afraid I agree with Brainbubba ... as I indicted in my initial contribution, the picture immediately struck me as too good to be true as a capture of reality, and it was too good to be true. Still a nice image.

Brilliant, looks like something you would've seen in Life magazine in the 50s.