Three Black Skimmers

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And who did Picasso steal from?

Anyway, Fred, your aversion to posting revisions of pictures seems to be based more on your feelings of possessiveness toward your pictures (which I fully understand) rather than on whether or not it can be a useful technique.

Phil, I guess it's possible that pictures can be stolen off Photo Net, but it's certainly not happening when someone posts a revision of a picture for everyone to see. (I know you were just kind of joking when you mentioned that.)

And Alberta's revision was truly tastefully done. She just muted a color cast that many people noted as being too strong.

What must you guys think of the revision posted of the current POW, which shows what the picture looks like without any people in it? To my mind, it's again completely appropriate, since the discussion has focused on what the people bring to the picture.

p.s. Did you know that there's a setting that you can apply to make it at least a little bit difficult for your pictures to be copied and downloaded? So, if you truly don't want people to be able to do this, there's something you can do about it.

Martin, in several posts here I hope I've made it clear that it's both my own feelings about my own photos applied to the way I treat others AND that I think it's a bad method for critique that motivates how I feel.

IMO, Picasso was suggesting that lots of artists copy other artists. I think he'd recognize it's in the nature of absorbing and being influenced by other people's work. He was recognizing, in a sense, that art is a dialogue throughout history of artists sharing and responding to one another. What he meant by the great artists stealing as opposed to copying, I think, is that great artists make it their own. They are struck with ideas, influences, a certain level of imitation and then with a creative transformation, they make it theirs, just like the goods a thief stole.

Martin
Please understand, I'm not pointing the finger at any individual. This is not a right or wrong issue. It is a matter of ethics. Most of us learn from work, techniques, points of interest, and people we admire. Not from someone showing us a different version of our own ideas...

My point about stealing was a joke. I believe Fred addressed that point very well. I'm not concerned what you think about the revised version. That wasn't my point. How does the photographer feel, is the ethical point I was getting at. You have made it very clear that you think this practice is fine. I agree, as long as the artist is involved in this process. Some photographers are very accomplished with their vision and techniques and don't need affirmation. While others are novice and seek help and feedback. We need to use wisdom based on circumstances.

Again, I respect you and Alberta's ability, so please don't take this personally. I'm sure this practice will continue, but I doubt you will get many thumbs up from the original photographers in question...

Phil,

I don't think it's a matter of ethics, unless you do it behind someone's back. Now, whether a particular photographer appreciates it is another question entirely. But, as I said, there is a setting on Photo Net that allows you to make your pictures unavailable for download, if you so choose.

Actually, it would be interesting to take a poll and see how many are for, and how many are against, this particular method of critique. I happen to think it is a good one.

http://photo.net/photo-of-the-week-discussion-forum/00Zwi7?start=0
Fred, I greatly admire the work of Landrum Kelly and always read his posts. Why on the POW link above did you not take issue with his post-process re-do? This isn't a "gotcha" - I'm just trying to understand this forum and how it should work. The rules (imposed or implied) seem arbitrary to me.
Thanks, Alberta

Alberta, any number of reasons. I might have recently discussed the issue and didn't want to bring it up again so soon. I've had a couple of strange encounters with Lannie over the years and might not have wanted to risk a scene. I may not have been in the mood. Nobody else had mentioned it in the forum, like in this one, so I wasn't riffing off of anyone else's thoughts at the time . . .

I sense that you think I've singled you out for some reason. I haven't. First, I wasn't the one who brought it up here and purposely did not direct my comments toward you, though I shared my opinion on the practice in general. Second, I no longer have the photos in my portfolio, but there were several occasions where someone reworked my photo and I asked them to remove the reworked photo. That was back in the days when we could delete our comments on critique pages. I have no way of proving that to you so you'll have to trust me. I'm sure you know both Pnina and Gordon and you're welcome to ask them about my longstanding very vocal opposition to this practice. They've had to put up with my comments over the years in many different guises. Believe me, it has NOTHING to do with you.

Enough. Let's move on.