portraits OLD MAN--MONTPELIER, IDAHO

your points are 100% in line with what I think...and to be honest I have so much to learn in processing...at the moment I am trying snap street shots and that takes me to be highly humble....

 

Fred....the technique can be ARt as well I guess and I don't mind that....my point was only valid for shooting people and their expression...here I think some caution and great respect should be considered to look for some (if possible) authenticity....but then again it's a matter of personal response as well...what's really true when the picture is there ?

 

Ton... nobody can hidde behind poor technique or bad execution...I take it quietly and personaly as well...:-)

 

David...on occasions I told you were I felt you went too far...on others I thought it suited the subject (always my personal opinion, nothing more)...when it comes to people and portrait: well the only thing I have to say is I'd better like some mistake with a little bit of soul than a dry image perfectly executed when you feel the processing and the desire of perfection goes too far to salvage the lack of expression or give a punchy look to an image that would be a wonderful quiet one (nothing and nobody needs punch all the time)...you know when a house is too clean, too ordered, too ....too much....

you shouldn't take it personally. First of all it wasn't intended as such and secondly my point was merely that you can do anything if you set you're mind to it and invest some time. Apart from that I think it's great you're having a go at street work. Will look out for them.

I'm not sure what I said that made you think I took it personally or might be displeased with any of the comments. I am exceedingly grateful that you, Fred, Laurent, Jeff, Dennis, Marjorie,Pnina, and all of you folks I have come to know and even like, would take the trouble to make constructive comments and so in that sense I take it personally. Personally, as in a compliment. I certainly did not wish to come off as upset because of anything that has been said. When I look at the collective wisdom demonstrated by all of the commentators on this image, I am absolutely awed. I did not mean to sound as if I were pooh poohing technique. I wish I had more ability, and I intend to improve until the day I die. So please do not give up on trying to help me become better. It hurts a little sometime, but it's good for me to get hit between the eyes with a reality punch.

I never thought you were upset but must have misunderstood this one. Anyhow, no problem.

 

"Ton... nobody can hidde behind poor technique or bad execution...I take it quietly and personaly as well...:-)"

 

Your last sentence is a good one and speaks of a wisdom that most on PN will never acquire. We all need a reality check from time to time. Having been here for about six or seven months I notice same phenomenon when way back I was a member of two photoclubs. People in general are more afraid of hurting eachothers feelings than they are with writing a heartfelt and honest comment. There is only a limited number of people who are straightforward and yet they are able to do it in a nice and constructive way, see all of the above for instance. I don't care much for comments like "good catch" when it's left at just that. But the fact of the matter is that a lot of comments on this site are meaningless. I'm not holier than tough of course but I'm not afraid to give my opinion even if that's very different from that of other commenters. I don't want to be a hypocrit and I think there is a lot of that going around on PN.

 

Most people reciprocate. I do that too but only when I want to not because I have to. That's a problem as well. Let me speake about myself, after all it's a personal opinion. I want people to look at my photo's, and if they feel the inclinition to do so leave a comment, because they are drawn to a certain photo and not because they feel an obligation to do so only because I've left them a comment. If I had found the above photo to be uninteresting I wouldn't have left a comment in the first place. A drawback to reciprocating can be that it all too easily leads to obligatory niceties and meaningless dribble. Still, one doesn't exlude the other. I think it's very likely that all those people above like you and visit regularly because of that, I certainly do. But they are all grown-ups and act like it. A lot of often meaningfull discussion emerges from that and that's how it should be. That's the real value of a forum like this. Fred has talked about this on several occasions and I agree. It's the people here that make PN not admin.

 

But what certainly I have underestimated is the effect of ratings. When I started here I was naive enough to believe it might work here, it doesn't nor will it ever so I got out of it. I think the reason why it's so popular is because a lot of people practice photography as a hobby, are quite happy on that level and use them as a kind of confirmation. Some time ago Fred suggested I might clean out my portfolio which I was actually thinking about but as is the way with such things you keep postponing them. This week I finally did. Guess what, someone pointed out that my rating average had gone up. Wow, now I have really made it here, I might have won a golden turd. What most people will never understand is that a number doesn't say the first thing about anyone as a photographer. Look at someones work, then you'll know. Some seem to be under the impression that this is an accounting site rather than a photography community. Sorry if I keep rambling on. It's just that I see so many people complaining about not getting enough comments/critiques/ratings. And when they do and they don't like it everyone else is to blame, definitely wrong and doesn't know the first thing about photography. They really should get their thumb out. Learning never stops. I want the feedback and the discussions that I find on threads like these and because of people like you because I get a lot out of that. Besides, it's fun.

Oups....excuse my poor english...."nobody can hidde behind poor technique or bad execution"....what I wanted to say exacty..."nobody can hidde poor technique or bad execution behind ART"...

 

PS: I don't want to re-start the discussion, just correct my mistake....:-)....

very nice David. Very, very nice!

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