No rules!

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• This image has been selected for discussion. It is not necessarily the "best" picture the Elves have seen this week, nor is it a contest.
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• Before writing a contribution to this thread, please consider our reason for having this forum: to help people learn about photography. Visitors have browsed the gallery, found a few striking images and want to know things like why is it a good picture, why does it work? Or, indeed, why doesn't it work, or how could it be improved? Try to answer such questions with your contribution.

I like this picture. The pose, location and color treatment make me feel like I am sneaking a glimpse of a forest elf. The soft, pictorial rendering and the triangular composition are very appealing.
I might want to see the face/eye a bit lighter, with a bit more detail in the hair, and move the crop up and to the right slightly (thigh is looming a bit large) but I understand cropping the figure is always a challenge. Overall a lovely, romantic scene.

Haleh: Congratulations on the POW; it is very well-deserved.

You've captured the essence of a dryad, a wood nymph. She conveys both innocence and eroticism. The subject's placement in the foliage is spot on, as is the soft treatment and tonality.

My best,

michael

I think the result is probably exactly what the photographer wanted. It is rather pictorialist, which no doubt will earn it some criticism from people who can't stand that sort of thing -- I remember some comments on past POTWs complaining about "pictorialist rubbish", for example.

The composition fits nicely into the almost-square frame. The graphic design elements (mostly triangles) are strong and well-placed. The B&W treatment is well done, though I'm not crazy about the slightly greenish tinting -- I would have preferred either a standard sepia tone or no tinting at all. There are bright lines that look like halos from over-sharpening along the top of the thigh and the upper back. I find those just a little distracting.

My only real problem with this image is that in concept it isn't particularly original. It's like one of those songs that seems too familiar the first time you hear it, but you aren't quite sure what other song it reminds you of. Sometimes people manage to get hit songs that way, because they're pushing the right buttons to appeal to the masses, but those songs don't usually go on to become classics because they're just not distinctive enough.

Well, first things first. I wanted to see other examples of the photographer's work for comparison purposes, so I went to her portfolio. And I don't even see this photo in her portfolio, so I'm wondering where photo.net found it?

Regarding the photo itself...I'm mostly negative on it. I think the tint is simply horrible. In addition to the nasty color, the tint gives the photo a washed out look which I simply do not like at all. Overall contrast is just very poor. The photo is full of what looks to be sharpening artifacts. I suppose the eye is supposed to be the focal point, but it's so washed out, its impact is lost. The foliage covering the subject's mouth and left eye further dilute any impact the facial expression might have had. If it's supposed to add a bit of mystery, it totally fails. And the title? No Rules? I don't relate it to the photo, except in the very vaguest sense.

This photograph held my interest for much less time than it's taken me to write about it. POTW? No. Just no.

This is one of those images that certainly draws you in. The warmth of the color, the muted tonal range and the mystery it renders, if only for a moment or so.

The triangular shape of the torso, leg and arm draws our attention and is a bit ambiguous initially, which I like. As we figure it out, we discover the face hidden in shadow. I really like the choice of the model, especially the light eye which just adds to the eery sense of the image. Of course, this is further enhanced by how the clump of leaves at the mouth/nose area seems to integrate with the face and transform it into something a bit more animalistic. I think this helps, as well, to minimize the personality of the model, which also adds some mystery and neutrality (I often find clear faces in these sorts of images can affect the reading of an image depending on one's response/bias to the personality that is identified/inferred. More ambiguous faces seem to neutralize this effect.)

This is really one of those images that does suffer quite a bit from being presented on a light background. Blocking the lightness or looking at this on a dark background (right click and select "view image") lets us better appreciate the image IMO.

Toning is always an issue and here there is a bit of green, which might be fine with an image like this. But the thing that I find distracting are the red crossovers in the mid tones of this image. We see this in several places, especially near the bush in the transition from the highlights on the thigh. I know that when I move a b/w image away from neutral, I do have to be careful to detect these sorts of crossovers as they can be very distracting, and expensive, when one makes a print where often these are amplified.

The thigh, as indicated by someone already, does seem a bit prominent but it also helps create the shape that draws our attention into the image and moves us through the bush on the left and back around to discover the face/head. I think one could play with minimizing it in some way, maybe burning it down or cropping, but I think it shouldn't lose its importance within the composition. I am actually ok with it as is, but if it were mine, it would have ended up here after seeing various alternatives--which Haleh may have done herself. My impression is that she has a good sense about these types of things.

Overall, I do think it is a nicely seen image.

--I just saw Jim's comments above mine and did write this having seen them. I do see that I have addressed some of the same issues in different ways--my point, my comments weren't in response to his but totally independent.


(Note: This is, again, one of those things I don't understand. If we go to Haleh's photostream we don't see this or any of the images that follow this one if we click the arrows--none of these are in her portfolio--this is really odd to me!?!?--how was this image found by the elves?)

See THIS THREAD for an explanation of why we can't find this photo in the photographer's portfolio. [scroll down to my posts.]

I don't mind pictorialism when it is purposely done.
I actually like the image as a whole, but I do find the pose a bit strained and uncomfortable looking, perhaps to hide the nipple, I suppose?

I think the positives outweigh the negatives, in any case.

Actually this is one of the least pictorialist photograph we've had in recent weeks. It does seem to dip into the picturialist tradition in the use of color. One had imagine not this particular nude but a nude of this color in a Wild West bar. The image would be that color because of the heavy doses of cigarette and cigar smoke it would be receiving.

The colors here making me this of paintings in need of restoration. Remove the old varnish and the dark painting is transformed from gloomy darkness into bright sunlight. My only negative criticisms as far as the image goes are that the murky colors and tones are too dark and need to be lightened up a touch and the model's skin tones are too yellowish and need to be less so. (I hope the poor girl is not ill.)

To be more exact, the picture should be lightened to the extent that her eye becomes clearer. That eye is intense and it holds the image together.

Otherwise, I like the way the model was posed and I like her impish face.

Now here is the thing about nude studies. They all tell a story in some way. That is because nudity in our society is a special event. That being so, there has to be a story behind it. The story may be simple, like "I'm here for you" or "Its great to be so free on the beach" or it might be as complex as a Classical painting. But it is there. The title tells us that the artist is aware of what I've been saying. His title is provocative: "No rules!"

I fail to see what the title has to do with the image but never mind. There is a drama in this image that is both intriguing and charming. The face and the body work in harmony with each other.

In spite of the imperfections (which can be easily repaired) I believe this a fine example of a difficult art form.

This is an extraordinary photo. When one clicks on the folder, one finds others equally extraordinary, if not more so. In spite of the title of the folder, I did not find them all to be nudes. I was a bit surprised to find that the clothed ones coiuld also hold me in their thrall. My own artistic imagination ran wild. All of the photos were intriguing. This one intrigued me about as much as any of them:

[link]

What I did sense was that I had in some dream state, or by some accident of nature, wandered into the world of the natural woman, a world that men can only glimpse but never entirely understand. Even when men are permitted access into that world for a while, they cannot fully understand it. We never will. Nor do women ever totally disclose themselves or the world they live in, whether they are undressed or dressed, as in the photo I have linked to above.

I think finally that questions of technique are almost irrelevant here. The overall vision of the artist-photographer is what has captivated me upon seeing these photos. I have been offered a glimpse into the mysterious world of woman, of women. It is a world in which I will always be a stranger, although I may be allowed to think otherwise for a while. I may be expelled from that world at any time. The wood nymph (more of a feral female to me) may stay or she may flee. Whether she stays or flees, she has touched my soul. That look in her eyes will always be with me.

Thank you, Haleh, for a glimpse into your world and that of women everywhere. We know that it is a temporary blessing. Tomorrow, or even this morning or even in an instant, you may be gone again.

The Eternal Feminine shines through in this most incredible folder, and in the work that was chosen as Photo of the Week. I am in awe that such beauty and mystery exist and can occasionally be captured in a photograph.

--Lannie

Following a link to the work of Daniel Andreev (after Googling "Eternal Feminine"), I found this:

I do not know if there is a similar philosophical message in Haleh's photos. Perhaps she will weigh in and tell us.

--Lannie

It could always just be horniness.

Actually, men putting females on pedestals can be just as oppressive as other more obvious methods.

"Divine reality" seems an oxymoron to me and "eternal feminine" just seems overwrought. The farthest I guess I'd go would be "mythical." I see both masculinity and femininity here, as I note that both of these are personal and cultural constructs.

I like that the body is more lit than the face and I sense this photo was meant to be low key. More subtlety in the highlights and in the gradation from light to dark might alleviate the feeling of muddiness or underexposure that some are feeling. Because the body is somewhat more strongly lit overall and the face is in a kind of sudden shadow, there seems to be something off balance or jarring, though I like the head and eye being less lit than the rest of the body, which plays into a kind of mystique. The sharpness of the line of the top of the thigh, which many have noticed, is very prominent and it's a case where technical and aesthetic do need each other, IMO, to create the kind of sensuality of form that seems to want to come through here. I think a bit of finesse with the lighting could soften that edge and increase that sensuality.

Hi all,
to me it seems this portrait has been made with purpose to sell a product - musical CD of some alternative, gothic band. That I give as a compliment! For that part the model seems to evoke mystic / irrational side of a feminine nature. It is executed well! I really like it. As well, the golden-yellow hues work wonderful with the woman's pose, and all this completely emphasise rustic, pictorial, and especially the gothic 19th century style of feminine literacy as an inspiration to tell the story. I especially like her folder of a family.
I recommend to browse Francesca Woodman.

Thanks Kristina for that reference. Although the comparison may be a challenging one, the image and much of the portfolio does remind me of Francesca Woodman's approach, where the life and psychology of the woman is explored in some depth. Such photos are very honest as they do not attempt to depict some ideal of femininity but place the latter in the context of the woman and her relationship with herself and the world (insofar as we can generalize women as opposed to a woman). There are several female artists that attempt to explore that relationship. I think it is LACMA and the Mexican modern art museum (MAMM) that are responsible for a current commendable exhibition of women artists in a Quebec museum ("In Wonderland- the surrealistic adventures of Mexican and American women artists"), that is eye-opening (I should say mind-opening) in this regard. I don't get too much caught up by any technical "imperfections" in the present POW, as the exploration by the photographer (man, woman?) of the nature of women, of which there are also other good examples in the portfolio, is of most interest to me. Message often trumps technicalities of composition.

<<<Message often trumps technicalities of composition.>>>

Perhaps only if message and "technicality" are seen as a competition rather than a symbiosis, kind of joyful partners.

___________________________

The extent of the similarity to Woodman, IMO, is woman photographer and woman subjects, and I don't minimize that connection. Otherwise, as I see it, Ms. Bryan's are an exploration of a connection to nature and a somewhat ideal way of looking. Woodman's photos, to me, have a sense of spirituality but seem more grounded, more earthy. She is seen in hard environments, often against hard edges of walls, corners, doors. The object seems important as a juxtaposition to the human in Woodman's work. There is a confrontational aspect to Woodman's work that I'm not seeing in Bryan's work. Woodman seems more likely to directly engage the camera. Woodman's are self portraits and feel like self portraits. Bryan's photos don't suggest self portraiture to me. Bryan's photos seem to be somewhat protective and distanced. Woodman's seem more raw. Both are pretty "conceptualized" though Bryan's feel more classic or literary while Woodman's feel more deeply psychological if not, in some cases, psychotic (in both a good and obviously negative sense, since she committed suicide at a quite young age).

The so-called connection between their works seems only superficial to me and I don't see much of a visual connection, though each has its own sort of power, as different as the kinds of power are.

I just have to suggest that the comparison of Woodman and the portfolio here are almost at polar opposites. Woodman was raw and spontaneous while the images that are linked to this one are more idealized, theatrical and romantic. If any images come to mind that seem closer to these--and they probably aren't really--it would be some of the very early Imogen Cunningham pictorial images.

This example isn't the best one, but I am thinking of some of the more theatrical images she made of her husband and others early on.

Just my opinion.

(and what Fred said simultaneous with my writing this!)

The photo is of a naked woman in the woods, Alex, and you cannot figure out what "No rules!" means?

--Lannie

Arthur, from what I saw on your recommended exhibition "In Wonderland- the surrealistic adventures of Mexican and American women artists", it's definitely a mind-opening one for me. I am not much familiar in-depth with female artists representing women. I started to be when I read a book about Francesca Woodman, which was this year. Thanks for it!
Fred, I am speechless. You analysed it so well. Those are the main differences. I draw a parallel between this portrait and the 19th century Gothic style in the literature, as someone titled this style for some reason, because there were some less popular women writers writing about their inner state. The one that comes into my mind is a novel about a married woman who was chronically ill. She moved with her husband to the country side. Her husband locked her in the room that had window bars and would check on her from time to time. Eventually, she started imagining a female character trapped behind decorative wall-papers, full of foliage. That female character at the end became free by exited from this lavish wall-paper, and the sick woman was saying, "I'm free." In that moment her husband unlock the room and he died when seeing his wife crawling on the floor among the thorn wall-paper. Now, according to various interpretation from both female and male views on a woman's health, is that women were found weak and irrational, inclined to depression - a male view. Women's view created the feminist movement some time in the 20th century, and under that there is a lot that justify a woman's behaviour.
So looking at her foliage and the model merged in it, is for me an association to that less popular novel in the general world literature, but absolutely popular among all women for women writers.

Fred and John and Kristina. Your points are well taken. Not having known much of Woodman's work in the past, I was simply impressed by the female view of her sex as opposed to the male views and what I see as being somewhat similar in the present portrayal (albeit not aggressively so), before knowing that the POW author is a female. However, Woodman's photos (the few I've seen on Internet) are more obviously to me the perceptions of a woman photographer, whereas the present POW is not necessarily so evident as issuing from a female mind. It suggests to me a sort of animal like fragility or isolation of the person portrayed, enhanced by the somewhat obscure natural surroundings, but I am not so sure that the color palette is a convincing choice in that regard. A bit more light on the foliage at the far left hand side might change that impression a bit. I wonder if the photographer had considered the use of a black and white image in this case, which might prove equally or more connected to the (albeit supposed) intent?

I get the sense of 'hiding and being found' here from the cramped position behind the vegetation, the dark colour and how Haleh draws attention to the eye. The facial expression suggests a bit of alarm at being discovered. Haleh did well to compose the image to fit the format dimensions, particularly with the use of angles and lines within it (assuming intent rather than discovery after the fact). To me, the nudity does not contribute to the image other than it simplifies it.

Arthur, to me as well this portrait suggest animal like fragility, and lower instincts, and danger as well. She looks more of having dangerous nature. She can either jump out at you or run away from you in fear. This is how it looks to me.