ellis_vener_photography Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 <I>And the 300mm f2.8 AFS VR is a mere $6k. Christ, I gotta pick less expensive hobbies:)</I><P>Try sailing or playing polo, or getting married and playing around! Those will make photography look cheap!:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anils Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 The 1D Mark II has a "1.3x" crop factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 So those of you complaining about the Nikon DX sensor size: how many of you are willing to pay $7-8000 (US) for a camera with a 24x36mm sensor? Be honest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravi_swamy Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Some of you need to check your numbers. From B&H: <p> Canon 1D Mark II, $4050, 8.2Mpixel, 1.3X crop factor<br> Canon 1Ds, $6000, 11.1Mpixel, full frame sensor<br> Canon 1Ds Mark II, $8000, 16.7Mpixel, full frame sensor<br> <p> Everything I've read says that the "s" stands for "studio." The "s" models have about half the frame rate. <p> The cheapest full frame Canon is still more than the D2X. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I wouldn't pay $8000 for a full-frame DSLR but at some point they'll be $5000. The Canon 1Ds not any more in production and that's why they're selling the remaining units for $6000 - to get rid of the inventory. The 1Ds isn't as good a camera for me as the D2X (the 1Ds is way too big and heavy, also the Nikon is faster and has better ergonomics), although I have nothing against full frame in itself. But I will wait for more reasonable prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivek iyer Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I agree with Shane. However, I would like to point out that civility is absent from certain "poobahs" when it comes to Nikon DLSRs and the pricing. Just wait for 6-8 months folks and Nikon will drop its price steeply just like it did with its current "flagship"40 mpix D2H camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Vivek wrote:<P><I>"You can already see SB-800s and the 600s on eBay. That is a sign where the movement is."</I><P>I just went to eBay and did a search for the SB800 and the Canon 550EX Speedlights. There were 36 lisitings for the Nkon and 44 listings for the comparable canon flash. No doubt some of those listings aren't for either unit but still it points the opposite way that Vivek would have you believe.<P>The bottom line is that Nikon is goingto sell a lot more D2X units than Canon will sell EOS 1Ds cameras. Vivek also wrote that the 1D mk II us a full frame camera. he is wrong: the 1D mk.iI has a 1.3x magnification factor. if you can wait a year the price ofthe D2X probably will come down -- but I just don't think you'll see that happen in six months unless the camera just tanks quality wise which no one thinks it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilkins Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 <i>I wouldn't pay $8000 for a full-frame DSLR but at some point they'll be $5000.</i> <P> Unlikely, because the per-wafer cost is the sensor's limiting factor as far as price, and that's a number that doesn't drop very much even as semiconductor technology advances. -- Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl smith Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 <i>their sensor sizes are in utter chaos. I would have to have a slide-rule to keep up with all of that. </i><br>You must be pretty easily confused Shane... How do you manage to understand Nikons mess of lenses? Canon's only begun to try to compete with that with the EF-S line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundaram_venkatachalam1 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Not sure about $8000, but when mint 1Ds were going for $3700 as soon as the 1Ds Mk2 was announced, I admit that I was tempted to pick up one of those. I think Bob Atkins mentioned recently that if full frame was more affordable, many would be buying it. I would have loved to watch Canon's reaction to a $4000 D2X. Unless the image quality from D2x is outstanding, Canon need not react at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappoldt Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Ellis, I'm thinking: Stay single, play around, buy camera gear, rent the sailboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Mark, the price of full-frame chips will come down, as will everything else digital. It may come down slower, but it will come down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundaram_venkatachalam1 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 <i>The bottom line is that Nikon is goingto sell a lot more D2X units than Canon will sell EOS 1Ds cameras</i> <p> Hopefully, some day both Nikon and Canon release sales and profitability numbers by camera models. <p> Also, it's unclear whether the D2x competes with 1Ds Mk2 or 1D Mk2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 <i><blockquote> the price of full-frame chips will come down, as will everything else digital. It may come down slower, but it will come down. </blockquote> </i><p> As <u><A href = http://www.photo.net/oped/bobatkins/full_frame.html>Bob Atkins's Op- Ed</a></u> notes, today you can get a 14MP Kodak camera body for as little as $3,500. There's no reason to believe that with (a) competitive pressures among Nikon, Canon, Mamiya and MF digi-back makers, (b) the evisceration of the low-end market by multiple megapixel cameraphones, and © full-frame cost reductions from manufacturing scale-ups and continued investment, that we'll see $1,500-$2,000 full- frame bodies within a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivek iyer Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Pardon my igorance about the crap factor of D Mark II. Since I have been looking to buy SB-800s and SB-600s I came across 4 each of these (used, barely 1 -2 months old, 3 said, pointedly, they are switching)in the last 2 weeks. Have no idea about Canon's new flashes being sold this way. Given what Nikon did with D2H's prices, I am positive that the introductory price will become $3,500 sooner than later. I am also hopeful that one of the camera manufacturers will eventually catch on to the Mini Mac idea and produce a camera for making photos and not worry about GPS, Wireless transmission, Microwave oven etc add ons. As Shun commented, it is Nikon's long term plans that one has to worry about, seriously. In the meantime, I among others, will eagerly look forward to a comprehensive D2X review from the veteran photog, Ellis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnabdas Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 >I wonder how everyone else is responding to this announcement. -- Carl Smith Mine is "#!$$ my @$$". I'll get one EOS 20D now (and an upgrade 1 year later) and the Canon 180 Macro and the 65mm MP-E all together for less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundaram_venkatachalam1 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 <i>I'll get one EOS 20D now (and an upgrade 1 year later) and the Canon 180 Macro </i><P>Arnab, I REALLY feel that it is a great plan. But, you could wait for another month or two to see if there is any D100 replacement.<p>BTW, one of my Canon friend's sold his 180 macro and got himself a Tamron and is very proud of his decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundaram_venkatachalam1 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 <i>Have no idea about Canon's new flashes being sold this way. </i> <p> Vivek, Ebay prices bear no correlation to how either of these companies is performing. Sometimes, I see prices for used items more than that for new from B&H. <p> <i>In the meantime, I among others, will eagerly look forward to a comprehensive D2X review from the veteran photog, Ellis.</i> <p> I read sarcasm here. I'ld rather read Ellis' review after him having actually used the equipment than most speculations on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnabdas Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Sundaram, very sensible suggestion. But in that case I'd again be pondering over the EOS 40D 3 years down the line (yes I have accepted that periodic upgrade thing). >Sometimes, I see prices for used items more than that for new from B&H. Funny that you would point it out. I have observed the same. Perhaps they are being sold by some celebrity photographers and are meant to be collector's tems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivek iyer Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Sundaram, Do NOT try to interpret what I wrote. What I wrote about Ellis'review is based on the fact that he appears to be the only one to have handled a pre-production D2X and is most likely to have one of the earliest issues. I was NOT talking about eBay prices of SB-800s and 600s at all. Read what I wrote and then decide to put your own spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourfa Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 "Perhaps they are being sold by some celebrity photographers and are meant to be collector's tems?" naw, I think PT Barnum had it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappoldt Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I see one used SB-600 on ebay. Most of what I see are them going for $200+ with the number of bids in the teens, regardless of the fact that they're $198 at B&H...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msitaraman Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 If Nikon had priced this at sub $4,000 they would have sold bucketloads of D2xs and they would have made a serious competitive market-share comeback against Canon. No, wait! Make that... "If Nikon had priced this at precisely the amount I'm willing to spend, they would have sold bucketloads of D2xs and they would have made a serious competitive market-share comeback against Canon." ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnabdas Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 "If Nikon had priced this at a fair price level relative to the D2h which is almost identical except for sensor type and megapixel rating, they would have sold bucketloads of D2xs and they would have made a serious competitive market-share comeback against Canon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leslie_cheung Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 >>> Arnab, I REALLY feel that it is a great plan. But, you could wait for another month or two to see if there is any D100 replacement. <<< If they annouce a d100 replacement in feb / march, it probably won't come out until sept or xmas time. I would be very suprise to see one with nikon's digital history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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