A Day At Edward Weston's Home

[todd frederick]

Rob...Thank you.

 

Toxic Pyro...I think many photo chemicals are toxic and I just don't like using them. I recall that he said if the powder is inhaled it is toxic, and should be handled carefully. I won't even use selenium any more. I did Cibachromes many years ago, and that was very toxic as well. I prefer liquid chemicals.

 

I just checked a dictionary under Pyrogallol: "a white, poisonous, phenolic compound,C6H3(OH)3, used as a developer in photography..." Interesting.

 

 

 

Cat photo...sorry about the undisplayable image.

 

Anyway, the event was very enjoyable and I learned a lot. Perhaps some of you could share your workshop experiences from time to time.

[jorge_gasteazoro4]

<i>I just checked a dictionary under Pyrogallol: "a white, poisonous, phenolic compound,C6H3(OH)3, used as a developer in photography..." Interesting. </i><p>

 

Last time I checked the people who edit dictionaries are not chemists, nor do they work in industrial hygene. This is precisely the point, an opinion becomes a "fact" once many uninformed persons repeat it. If you state your opinion and fear of the developers that is fine, but making a cathegoric statement that pyro is "extremely dangerous" is false, and shows a high level of ignorance on the chronic as well as acute toxicity of chemicals. Just as an example, if you eat spinach, you are eating ferric oxalate, a poison, if you use sweeteners, in the right amount they are poisonous. There is more to the effect of chemicals than what the dictionary says...

[todd frederick]

I just thought it was interesting. I'm not a chemist, don't want to be, and I'm not trying to make an issue on this. I only wanted to share some experiences of the workshop and the Weston home.

[jorge_gasteazoro4]

<i>I just thought it was interesting</i><p>

 

What did you think it was interesting? you lost me here...<p>

In any case I dont want to make an issue of it either, I am just posting information that is accurate. If you are not a chemist, nor want to be one, then perhaps you should not be posting false information about chemicals..no?

[todd frederick]

Jorge,

 

I am simply repeating a statement made at the workshop by Kim Weston, who's opinion I accept as reliable, who has a good knowledge of photographic chemistry, over 40 years of hands-on experience working with his father Cole Weston and with his uncle Brett Weston, and working as one of the printers of the Edward Weston special edition prints.

 

I respect his opinion much, much more than I respect your's!

 

Pyro IS toxic and should be handled carefully.

 

Other photographic chemicals are also toxic and should be handled with care as well. This includes selenium, hydroquinone, and developers containing metol which can cause skin problems with some people. Acetic acid is also toxic. I would not want to drink it and the vapors are very noxious.

 

All darkroom work should be done with good ventillation and basic safety measures.

 

I am not passing on any false statements and I resent that accusation.

 

Also, if I mention on this forum that I saw a demonstration of the use of a toxic chemical, and suggest that it might be interesting to try it, such as Pyro, I think I have the moral responsibility to mention that the use of such may have toxic side-effects for those who may not be aware of the potential dangers.

 

I don't know why this Pyro issue has become such an obsession with you. I don't even know you or your qualifications, and I really don't care.

 

I posted and up-beat, positive, non-argumentative report of an enjoyable workshop experience, and, for whatever personal reason you have, you want to turn it into a viscious debate of "I'm right and you're wrong!" I don't care who's right or wrong.

 

Please discontinue your off-topic debate.

 

End of discussion.<div></div>

[joe_dahlgren]

Todd,

I am glad that you posted this about Weston. I also found it one of the more interesting posts I've read on here. Have you read Claris Weston's book? I found Edward quite an interesting character. More pictures please.

[todd frederick]

Joe,

 

I have not read Charis' book. It's on my list. She is still living and visited the house a few months ago to be a part of a documentary on the weston family. I met her in 1976 at a workshop at Foothill College in Los altos CA along with Adams. She is a lively and direct person. I think she's about 92 and lives in Aptos CA. Read Edward's Daybooks. They are a wonderful insight into the inner life of a great artist.

 

I will post some more photos. Hope some are still reading this. The family has added all kinds of little items and plants all around the house. It is very beautiful and colorful. I found this abalone shell and ship's chain resting on a log next to me as I had lunch. Photo ops are everywhere!...see photo below.

 

Technical Note:

 

Out of responsibility, I need to post this item on Pyro from Bostick-Sullivan who supplies this developer in many forms, as well as platinum/palladium kits. This is not my opinion but one coming from the source itself:

 

"Is pyro toxic?

Yes, pyro developer is toxic, as are all of the commonly used developers. Always wear gloves and take proper precautions. Dispose of used developer properly according to your local regulations. If you have limited experience handling chemicals it is best to buy premixed liquid solutions (like the B&S pyro kits) and avoid using powdered pyrogallic acid to mix developers from scratch."

 

http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/main/pyro_page.htm

 

Also, if you visit the Weston website listed above, there is an e-mail address and phone number. I am not an expert, just a "reporter" so any specific questions about technical issues should be directed to Kim or to Bostic-Sullivan regarding chemistry.<div></div>

[todd frederick]

The Weston workshops are very small and imtimate: 10 people. Parking is limited. Our group had 7.<div></div>

[todd frederick]

This is the first workshop I've taken for about 20 years. I was getting into a rut and this kind of activity can stimulate your creative juices. It is also good to share these experiences with other like minded people. Even posting these photos and chatting about it is stimulating. Think about taking a Weston workshop or one in your area, take a class, or visit a gallery.

 

This photo is Kim Weston showing Edward Weston special edition prints in his gallery.<div></div>

[bob haight]

I hope we all agree certain powder chemicals are toxic, especially, seleniun and care should be taken to avoid inhalation. Do we have to be chemists to read labels?

[todd frederick]

Bob,

 

Thank you for your comment.

 

In the Bostick-Sullivan web site, under Technical Papers, under Misc., there is a collection of the formulas for the chemicals they sell. Under Pyro "A" it clearly states the following:

 

"Weigh out the pyrogallic acid and add slowly and stir until dissolved. Use a mask, as this is toxic!"

 

No other formula they use carries such an explicit warning. How much more direct can it be stated, and these people are chemical experts!

 

It goes without saying that we should use extreme care with any chemicals we use. Ever try to clean a bathtub with household bleach with the door closed?...don't try! (^0^)

[eric merrill]

Todd:

 

<p>

Thanks for taking the time to write about your experiences at the Weston workshop and posting the pictures, too. I've really enjoyed reading and viewing what you've so kindly been providing us. Thanks!!

 

<p>

--<br>

Eric<br>

<a href="http://canid.com/">http://canid.com/</a><br>

[todd frederick]

Eric,

 

Thank you for your kind comment.

 

I think one of the reasons I wanted to write about this experience is because not everyone will be able to take one of these workshops. I brought my little digital with me, and photographed everthing in sight.

 

I guess this is a "virtual" workshop, with some technical tid-bits thrown in...from Kim Weston. I have others I will share, so keep reading.

 

If you can get out this way, such a workshop is a great experience, but there are great classes and workshops all over the world. His assistant, Randy Efros, said that you can get more out of a good 2 day workshop taught by an experienced photographer, than by reading books for two+ years. I believe that. The one I took was not expensive, but the 8x10 and Platinum workshops are a bit pricy (at least for me). One nice thing about the 8x10 workshop is that he provides the cameras, it is three days (one day for exposing and film developing), one day for contact printing, and one day for presentation methods). The May workshop is filled, but I'm going to try to catch the one in September (after my son's wedding!!!$$$).

[todd frederick]

Eric,

 

I appreciated your website and your photographs.

 

This photo is one I did today at the San Juan Bautista (CA) cemetery...a really sad place to visit.<div></div>

[jorge_gasteazoro4]

<i> am simply repeating a statement made at the workshop by Kim Weston, who's opinion I accept as reliable, who has a good knowledge of photographic chemistry, over 40 years of hands-on experience working with his father Cole Weston and with his uncle Brett Weston, and working as one of the printers of the Edward Weston special edition prints. <p>

 

 

I respect his opinion much, much more than I respect your's!</i><p>

 

Ah, I see, so if an actor portraits a medical doctor in a soap opera for 20 years he gets a de facto MD degree, uh? I dont think so bubba...<p>

 

Pyro is toxic but, so it is caffeine, chocolate and many other chemicals in the right amounts. It is certainly <b>NOT</b> "extremely poisonous" as you stated.<p>

 

Certainly correcting your false information might seem to you off topic and "vicious", but in fact it is very much on topic! anybody who in the future might want to follow in EW's steps or perhaps MAS, might be discouraged to do so because of your very ignorant statement, they might think that pyro is indeed to dangerous to use, which cannot be further from the truth.<p>

 

I really does not matter to me if you respect my opinion or not, I only hope that those who want to use pyro an amidol make an informed decision based on knowledge, not on second hand "he told me so" scare mongering information. You do not have to be a chemist to read a label, but it helps to be one to understand what it means.<p>

 

BTW, if pyro was so toxic, people like Steve Simmons, Michael A. Smith, Gordon Hutchings, Sandy King ( to name a few) would probably be dead by now since they mix pyro developers from stock.<p>

 

Seems to me it is another one who suffers from " I am right, you are wrong!" feelings, specially since my information is first hand from toxicology not from word of mouth "he must know what he is talking about because he used it for a long time"

[todd frederick]

Pyro is a fine film developer. We just need to be careful when using it. Not a major problem.

[tribby]

you boys...

 

cool yer jets. i think my ol' buddy whore-hey is just jealous.

 

good stuff toodles,

 

tribby

[jorge_gasteazoro4]

<i>i think my ol' buddy whore-hey is just jealous.</i><p>

 

There is that too Tribby....and what is this "whore-hey"??? I might be easy but I certainly am not cheap...:-)

[tribby]

yep,

 

but i know different. don't i jorge? how do you think ol' geo got them stained fangernails? naughty naughty!!!!

 

wink wink,

 

trib

 

p.s. i'm jealous too toodles. great thread, one of photonet's best.

[todd frederick]

The Kim Weston site has been updated with photos from our workshop.

 

Please look at: http://www.kimweston.com/workshops/cpadaywildcat.htm

 

I'm the handsome "husky" guy with the white beard.

 

The old camera we're looking at is an original Graflex (first model) rollfilm camera, and we're reseaching the film size...103/124???

 

I also appreciate the new name of Toodles...I was using MrToady (on eBay), but I like Toodles much better.

 

A good debate always keeps us alive and kicking!

 

blessings, Toodles

[msitaraman]

Tribby!!!!

 

Welcome back to photo.net! It's been a long, long time...

[mark__5]

I don't want to rain on your parade by adding any negativity, but the last time I checked out the Weston website (and maybe it is different now), I imagined Ed rolling over in his grave as I saw prints for sale that were no more than snapshots of "Edward's desk" or other areas of his living space.

 

I also thought that only the sons were allowed to print Edward's images, I saw some for sale that were printed by Kim, what's up with that?

 

Overall I found the website to be rather distasteful.

[todd frederick]

Mark,

 

I think there is one photo of his desk that is for sale. Mine's available also! (^0^) It's not ment to be an art item...but I'm not sure. I'll have to check. Is that a problem?

 

To my knowledge, only Cole Weston printed the special edition prints. Edward's grandson was give ONE of Edward's negatives (Charis nude in the window) which he uses to demonstrate printing in his workshops. He has only that one for sale as well, and prints it for that purpose to make an Edward Weston print available. I presume he received permission to do that from his father's (Cole)estate. Why not send Kim an e-mail and ask? I don't know the answer.

 

No more special edition prints are being made, but many are available, to the best of my knowledge, from what was said, and Kim helped Cole with the printing of those prints for many years, according to what I heard at the workshop. That is partly how Kim learned to print and use the traditional chemicals and methods. That's my understanding.

 

In what ways do you find the web site "distasteful." That's a rather strong word to use. Uninteresting, cluttered, commercial, etc., but distasteful is a rather specific term to use. Could you give examples of what you mean? I find it interesting and comprehensive with much personal info and photos from the workshops. It's a bit hard to navigate at times, but not "distasteful!" If you mean Kim's nudes, then you must know that he is a photographer of nudes...that's what he does and that's what both his father and grandfather did extensively.

 

Kim and his family have possession of his grandfather's home and they want to preserve it and his heritage. I found Kim Weston and his wife to be most gracious and positive, with a strong interest in continuing Edward's legacy, and in teaching traditional LF photographic skills as well as alternative processes.

 

I'm not trying to defend anyone here...just passing on my personal reaction to a very good experience.

 

Attached is a photo of the window in which Charis posed nude behind the glass in Edward's photo, minus the bird feeder. See the example of the original on the web site.<div></div>

[mark__5]

I find it distasteful because of the two, not one, image of the interior of the house for sale. A picture of Edward's desk and another showing the fireplace, doesn't this seem a bit tacky to anyone here?

 

I believe the printing of Ed's negatives originally were handed to Brett, who having less available time for it, handed it down to Cole. I just don't see Ed agreeing with the continued passing of any of his negatives down to later generations so they can generate an income from the sales.

 

It seems to me that these examples should suffice for my opinion, but in addition, the whole site seems to serve up Ed in a way that I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have him on display like Lenin and were charging admission to see him.

[jorge_gasteazoro4]

<i>I believe the printing of Ed's negatives originally were handed to Brett, who having less available time for it, handed it down to Cole. I just don't see Ed agreeing with the continued passing of any of his negatives down to later generations so they can generate an income from the sales.

</i><p>

 

Why not?...I have never read Weston's biography, but even so you make it sound as if he was a petty SOB whom would not want his progeny to profit from his efforts. I think he would actually be happy to see his family was enjoying the fruits of his efforts.