Flexible MF system advice (product/wedding/landscape)

[nicholas_rab1]

Hi,

 

I am looking for some advice on buying into a medium format system.

I work part time (about 30% of income) as a photographer. I currently

work primarily with 2 10Ds, though I occasionally shoot 4x5 for

personal work.

 

My work consists of primarily event/weddings, but I have been trying

with some success to move into product work. I also do quite a bit

of landscape shooting, both urban and wilderness, though except for

some small print sales this work is for the most part

unpaid/personal. I find it helps with my marketing though.

 

Things I am unhappy about with my 10D primarily have to do with film

choice. I recently shot a wedding that was in direct sunlight, and

did not have the exposure latitude that a good wedding film would

have. That left me with having to underexpose to keep detail in the

dress, making photoshop hard with the tux. With a MF camera &

weddings I would probably shoot the formals & sometimes the ceremony,

leaving the rest for the digital.

 

I have shot medium format in the past, and used to own a Pentax645.

I played around with the 645nII and really enjoyed the interface, but

there does not seem to be any path to digital. That seems pretty

silly to buy into a non digital-ready system at this point.

 

Buying a new body and used lenses, I would like to keep it around

$3500 for a simple 3 lens set ~(45 T/S - hartblei,80,150). Should I

just move on the pentax as a stopgap until something more compelling

is out or I have more money? If I do go with a interchangeable

system that takes digital backs what is the rental situation like for

these?

 

Sorry for my rendition of War and Peace. Thanks for any advice.

[andreas_carl]

Hasselblad Flexbody (used about $1000 to $1500) would be great for landscapes and product shots because of the tilting back. But you would need a 503CX or CW to get TTL flash and it would be difficult to get a 3-lens setup for under $3500...

[ellis_vener_photography]

Hasselblad 501cx/503/555. This is the only camera body mount that all of the

"medium format" digital back manufacturers (Imacon, Jenptik, PhaseOne, Leaf, Sinar)

offer options for.

[db1]

I would recommend getting a Hasselblad set up but not the flexbody. If the main use of this camera will be wedding photography I would go with a 503cxi or 503cw.

 

Being an avid ebayer, I am sure you could get a 503cx or cxi kit (with 80mmCF and A12) for $1000-$1500. That would leave $2000 for glass. I often see mint CF150's selling in the $850 range. Then you have $1000 left for the 50 CF FLE. Done. I suspect that if you are patient enough, you could score some really nice stuff on *bay.

 

The nice thing about the Hasselblad setup is that you can attach a digital back and I (read this as ME) believe that the prices have settled and will not continue to fall. Actually I think they might increase. There seems to be more and more digital folks coming back to medium format because digital is lacking for some reason. But this is for another conversation.

 

Good luck. Check ebay and be patient. And be sure to send an email to the seller with a few questions before paying. This will weed out the scammers.

[dale_dickerson2]

For full sun weddings, I do not use a focal plan shutter camera and use a leaf shutter. I use a full flash set 1/2 stop less then available light reading. It is possible to shoot the formal images using an 80mm lens. This means a good used Rolleiflex tlr with a 2.8 Xenotar or Planar would work at a low cost. I have a 2.8c that does great and was less then $500. At that price absence of the digital back is not a real issue.

 

You can find some good deals on Hasselblad and Rolleiflex slr systems. For $3,500 and some careful looking using using e-xxx auctions you could of been high bid on a Rolleiflex 6008 or earlier camera with a 80mm, 50mm, and 150mm lenses in the pre-PQ version during the past month and 1/2. Similar deals are out there on Hasselblad.

 

At present, I have not rented a digital back for weddings. I do have the lab scan the negatives and get them on a cd. I print using negatives and/or digital files. A 20x24 formal portrait will hold all the details of the dress. Making up a digital magazine wedding album is simple.

 

If you are wanting the use of the p-6 lenses, a good working Kiev 88CM will permit you to use the 30mm Arsat and the ts lenses. The thing to remember is the camera shutter will wear out in 6 months if you have 5 propack a day habit. I figure $30 a wedding toward the next Kiev and I am always money ahead. You can go through a large number of bodies before you equal the cost of a Zeiss 30mm! (If you get the Kiev 88CM modified to use real Hassy back, you also have use of Hassy digital backs.)

[dale_dickerson2]

By the way, ttl flash is not needed to do fill flash. My 120J Sunpack set on automatic does very well.

[nicholas_rab1]

Thanks for the feedback all. I have a question about the Hasselblad & digital backs. Having never worked with these, I had the (possibly incorrect) impression that using a digital back with a hassy is kind of a kludge. That is, because there is no communication between the body and the back is the handling different than shooting film? This was the reason I was considering the 645's (contax & mamiya for instance).

 

-Nick

[tarashnat]

Nicholas,

 

I would also look at KEH's web site for used Hasselblad equipment. They have a stellar

reputation for rating their used equipment accurately, and the prices are quite reasonable.

I was able to get bargin (others would rate them excellent) 150mm and 250mm C T*

lenses for under $700 each last year. There is also B&H and Adorama if you can't find what

you are looking for at KEH's used section. And there are many camera shops with used

equipment, many selling on Ebay, but others haven't discovered it, or are steering clear of

the auction site.

 

I agree with the recommendation for a 5x3 camera. The 553ELD or 503CW / 503CXi with

winder is probably the instrument of choice for wedding photographers.The H1 being out

of your stated budget range.

 

The 4x5 is probably your best choice for product photography according to most of the

advice I've read here in this forum. A FlexBody would be OK if you already had an

investment in Hasselblad glass, but doesn't give you the full advantage of a large format

camera's movements. Plus, you can always get a roll film back for a 4x5 for the

convinience on the film side.

 

Taras

[braca_nadezdic1]

Bulky and weighty, but excellent - Fuji GX680!

[ellis_vener_photography]

<I> Having never worked with these, I had the (possibly incorrect) impression that

using a digital back with a hassy is kind of a kludge. </I><P>This is an outdated

perception. Yesterday we sset up a Hassleblad 503cx with a Phase One 22MP back

and it was no kludge at all. A sync cord went from the lens to the back-- apparently

this is also true for the Sinar backs as well since with the Sinar 54 back and the

Contax 645 there is no communication between the body and the lens.

[paul utkin]

Nick,

 

10D isn`t a pro level camera. Have you tried 1Ds or 1Dmk2? May be such camera would fix all the issues?

 

You see, the only modern 645 system with leaf lenses is Hassy H1 and it is quite above of $3K range.

 

From other perspective if we get cheap digital backs any time soon with ISO settings from 25 to 200 - at ISO 25 it will be quite possible to manage with 1/125 contax sync speed - but how to know this for sure?

 

Frankly I would not invest into old manual digitally incompatible systems today...

[paul utkin]

I used to assist on weddings with Bronica SQ but after getting used to my Contax 645 and after I tried H1 there is no way I`m going back... I have nothing against such old cameras in studio setup but it`s just so faster and simpler and nicer to work with such modern fully electronic AF 645 system on location, there is simply no comparison...

[erik scanhancer]

Nicholas,

 

I may sound like a broken record, but the best recommendation I

can do is to buy a modern Rollei 6008 (AF). It is very well

prepared to communicate with digital backs and most currently

available can be mounted on it as well. It can also be operated

from a computer. For product shots you might consider Rollei's

xAct MF (6x4.5) technical camera. It is compatible with many of

Rollei's other gadgets and lenses and even takes Hassy backs

(or digibacks with that mount). Great concept and a lot more

versatile than Hassy's Arcbody.

[wim_van_velzen]

What Eric said!

<p>

<a href="http://www.fotografiewimvanvelzen.nl/webarticle03.htm">Wim</a>

[mark_edward_seel]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Mamiya 645AFD. The D

stands for digital, the camera is designed to communicate with a

digital back. Leaf has teamed up with Mamiya and they are

offering a 6 megapixel back with this camera at a very

reasonable price. Plus there are other backs available, including

of course, the film back. Mamiya is used by a lot of pros and is

well supported.

[paul utkin]

Mamiya 645AFD is OK camera, Contax 645 is OK camera, H1 is OK camera.

 

I looked at all of them and don`t regret my choise of Contax. I think it`s closer to some sort of golden medium than all the others.

 

The absence of leaf lenses for Contax is a very serious issue of course and this should not be underestimated. I wrote to Kyocera recently and got an answer that they have no plans in designing leaf lenses for this system. i wish somebody could find the way to make H1 lense work on Contax somehow - that would be a good workaround...

 

Contax claimed many time that current body was designed to support leaf lenses - so probably it`s possible to block focal plane shutter and transmit signal to lens.

 

Too bad there are not too many electric engineers who own Contax in this world... All one need for such thing is a motor driven leaf shutter lens that can be mounted on Contax with an adapter - to build such an adapter with one-chip programmable CPU should not be extremely difficult either. I would gladly pay 2-3 hundred for such nice little thing..

[gary_voth3]

The H1 is the best option going. It's got nearly the handling/ergonomics of a 35mm AF system with the benefits of leaf shutter lenses. It's also an excellent platform for digital backs. Unfortunately, its out of your stated price range by a long shot.

 

The 500-series 'Blad's are solid workhorse machines. Ellis is right that newer backs can sync easily with the right gear without goofy cable releases. The Imacon backs can plug into the electronic release socket at the base of the Winder CW for the 503. This method is slicker and more integrated than lens sync--it's criminal that all backs aren't designed this way. And of course, the 553 bodies are fine.

 

However, handling and working with these cameras is substantially different than what you are used to with 35mm digital. Focus throw is much longer and therefore slower, there is no lens coupling to the meter prism, and you must remember to transfer settings from one lens to another when changing lenses, and the mirror is not an instant-return type. Also, the mechanical nature of all interfaces can lead to oddball problems like losing a frame when ataching an unwound back to a wound body, etc.

 

This is all second nature to longtime Hassy users, but coming from 35mm you may find the system is awkward at first. I suggest trying it before buying. Hassy rentals are plentiful.

[richard_p]

If you want T/S hartblei 45mm, you need to buy a kiev 88cm. The concensus is that Arsat 55mm PS is the best although T/S hartblei 45mm is a good performer. It's tough to do a fill flash with Kiev 88cm because of a low sync of 1/30. A used rollei TLR may fill the gap. Hartblei 150mm/2.8 is a very beautifully made lens. You can use a reflector for this tele-lens in the full sunlight. A fish eye lens is nice with wedding shooting. For wedding, you need to carry a backup camera no matter what brand you use.

 

Richard