Exposing Provia 100F with the aim of increasing colour saturation

[robin_barnes]

I have recently received my first few rolls of 120 Provia 100F back

from processing - shot at 100ASA and processed accordingly. Generally

I like the results but, as others have commented, colour saturation

is not this film's strong point. I have searched the archives and

come across a number of interesting posts on push processing 100F

suggesting that at 200ASA (pushed 1 stop in processing) it is

practically indistinguishable from when shot at 100ASA and that it is

very good up to 320ASA. However I have not found any posts which

discuss trying to increase the colour saturation a little by, for

example, exposing at 125ASA and processing normally (I often do this

when using 35mm Kodachrome 64 - exposing it at 80ASA). Have any of

you tried this and if so what were the results like?

 

Thanks Robin

[wayne_crider3]

Robin, although I don't regularly shoot alot of Provia, I've never had a problem with the color saturation and like it. I mostly shoot Astia which is quite different, and will push it a stop to boost it, plus I like the extra speed. Are you coming off Velvia or E100VS for a comparsion? If not try them. > The indistinguishable chacteristics of Provia shot at 100 or 200 is a testament to the films ability to be shot at a higher speed and still give a great picture. I do plan on shooting more of the film as it actually has a better exposure latitude than Astia, and better reciprocity. If you get a chance to see the Mark and David Muench books, there are quite alot of photographs in the the latest one shot with Provia. But be informed that they are heavily invested in the digital world.

[ellis_vener_photography]

Well when you extend the development time you pick up some

contrast but I don't think that is what you are asking about. For

more color saturation why not try Velvia? It too pushes very well

and looksa lot better than E100VS at any speed.

[barry schmetter]

This really puzzles me, because Provia 100F has very good color saturation. Provia looks virtually the same at push 1 (EI 160), with very little increase in contrast and certainly no change in saturation. At push 2 (EI320) the dmax seems to fade a bit and it gets a trifle muddy.

 

Correctly exposed at EI 100, Provia should be giving you good saturation. Underexposing it (ala K64) is just going to give you hard-to-scan slides. Maybe your lab's E-6 line is not up to snuff. I've seen some poorly processed Provia that went cyan.

 

The suggestions above are correct; Velvia (or 100VS) is really the only step that's going to give you more saturation. Are you using a modern lens and lens shade? I've got to think there's something missing here.

[victor_lioce]

If the problem isn't exposure, and my photochemistry memory serves me correct, the cyan dye layer is the inner-most layer of the film. That could indicate either weak chemistry or low temperature fluctuation, causing cyan cross-over. anybody jump in here if I am wrong, but I would try sending different rolls of the same film batch to different labs, shooting the same subject matter and under the same light conditions and see if they all come back the same or if you get different results. If you do, then dump the existing lab.

[dave_hickson]

Barry - I've had an argument at the local pro lab when I shot Provia 100f at 320 ASA, and told them to push it 2 stops. They said 2 stops would be 400 ASA (200 - 1, 400 -2), not 320. Photos are fine at 320 and 2 stops, though - all 20 rolls in Italy, and not overexposed. Did this after several threads on Provia 100f in Photo Net, and a couple of trial rolls. So, is 2 stops 320 or 400, and why? Thanks.

[barry schmetter]

Dave - What you did was exactly right. Thanks to photo.net you knew more than your lab :-). When you say push 1 or push 2 to the lab, it instructs them to develop for a certain number of additional minutes. However, not all films gain a full extra stop of speed with push 1, or two full stops with push 2.

 

Just as the normal ISO rating of a film is only a starting point (NPH @ EI 250-320 for example), the same holds true for pushing. With new films, I like to see what other people's experiences are and do a little testing of my own.

[scott_eaton]

The problem with Provia (and Velvia) is these two films require extended color developer and first developer times when compared to Kodak E-6 films and Astia, and most commercial labs don't do this because they want to keep their (usually Kodak) control strips in spec. I've run E-6 lines and been in the same frustrating situation. You simply *cannot* gain the highest image quality from Provia if you are compromising your processing for both Kodak E-6 and Fuji slide films. This is a big reason I've been doing my own E-6 processing for color critical work, and Provia 100 and 400 appear to gain the best benefits. If your Provia images look flat and start to look like Astia, it's time to change labs.

 

Colors with Provia 100 and 400F should be crisp, dense, *extremely* saturated (equal to E-100S), all deep colors except for blue should shift a bit to the warm side and hold detail far better than Kodak E-100VS and E-100S. The attached file is a quick composite of some of my garden work this summer and all shots were taken with Provia 100 and scanned with no saturation enhancement. If there's any lack of color saturation here, please enlighten me, because the chromes look like they are on fire.

 

I hate E-100VS because it looks and behaves like nothing more than E-100S with little more than boosted contrast, however, I feel the same way about Velvia vs Provia. Velvia, IMHO, is much better film than E-100VS though.

[scott_eaton]

Sorry, I forgot that MF digest doesn't do uploads. Here's a <a href="http://www.mindspring.com/~wseaton/techpics/mosaic.jpg">hyper link </a> to that file. {{170k}}

[doug_brightwell1]

"...all deep colors except for blue should shift a bit to the warm side..."

 

When I shot a few rolls of Provia, I was stunned at how blue the film turned out to be in midday sunlight (processed normal and viewed on a color correct light box). The guy at the camera store told me that Provia tends toward a cool cast. I ended up switching to another film. Wonder if it could have been the lab's processing. Does anyone else notice a bias toward blue?

[colin_miller]

<i> Doug wrote: Does anyone else notice a bias toward blue? </i><p>This is one of the reasons I dropped 100VS for Provia (120) and Sensia (135). I never have offensive color shift with Fuji trannies.<p><center><img src="http://www.pond.net/~ckmiller/bluecast100vs.jpg"> </center><p>Here's an example of what I think is too much color shift with 100VS. I added unsharp mask but no color adjustments. The Sensia slides from my Canon just after or before that shot are much more pleasing. Oh well. Hopefully they won't close Grand Canyon NP before I get back there..... <p><a href="http://www.pond.net/~ckmiller/bluecast100vs.jpg">Just in case... </a>

[robin_barnes]

Thank you all for your responses. I have the feeling that the lab I used (even though it generally has a good reputation) could be the cause of my, albeit mild, disappointment.

 

Scott - I found your reply particularly interesting - the lab I used has a high thoughput operating 24 hours a day 7 days a week and its standard service takes 2 hours so it seems more than likely that it doesn't make the adjustments to its processing procedures which you say are necessary to get the best out of Provia. I will try other labs.

 

Ellis - thanks for your suggestion that I try pushing Velvia. Frankly Velvia's standard speed of 50ASA (with some people reckoning that it ought to be 40) is too slow for my needs so I had not even considered it - I've now read some of your posts in the archives about pushing it and will try this myself.

 

Thanks again.

 

Robin

[wayne_crider3]

FYI, from Fuji's Data Guide 99; Useable Exposure Indices:

RDPIII; EI 160,200,320,400; (+1/2,+1,+1.5,+2)

 

RDPII and Astia; EI 160,200; (+1/2,+1)

 

As cautioned, relative to the labs setup for Fuji and your own testing.