Stop Gap Camera while we wait for a Digital M?

[fotografz]

Forum contributor Paul Stenquist dropped by my studio yesterday to show me his nice

Leica IIIC AND to goof around with his new 6 meg Pentax DSLR.

 

If you have not held this Pentax, it is SMALL! Much smaller than the Canon 10D by a lot.

I believe it is the smallest, larger sensor, DSLR currently made. It has an incredibly bright,

uncluttered viewfinder. Seems brighter than my Canons even with a f/1.4 lens mounted.

It allows use of both the wonderful older manual Pentax lenses, as well as newer AF/AE

versions. Some lenses Paul had for it looked like new and were built like little tanks. The

45mm Pancake lens on the camera makes it not much bigger than M if at all.

 

We slapped a 80/1.8 manual lens on it and I walked around the house shooting available

light stuff, and I popped off a shot of Paul's IIIC sitting on the kitchen counter (see

attached).

 

After taking a few minutes to download Adobe's new PS/CS RAW plug-in that now includes

this Pentax digital (as well as a few other new entries), we were inspecting the results. I

was impressed to say the least. Even MORE impressed when Paul e-mailed later me to say

that he had forgot to reset the ISO from an earlier shoot, and the pix we shot were ISO 800

!!!! (a fact I confirmed by checking the file info in the Adobe file browser).

 

For a small, easy to carry, easy to use vacation camera or street shooter with barely any

shutter lag I could detect, with a vast array of both older and newer small lenses at very

reasonable prices, this baby fits the bill.

 

Did I mention how small it is? Amazing.<div></div>

[fotografz]

Some interesting spec's on the Pentax 1stD:

 

weight: 550 grams verses the M7s 610 grams.

 

Size: 129 X 94.5 X 60mm (the M7 is 138 X 79.5 X38 so the Pentax is fatter but a bit less

wide).

 

Shutter: 30 sec, to 1/4000th with 1/150th sync.

 

Uses either 2 CR V-3 batteries OR 4 of any kind of AAs (nice to know for emergencies).

 

I'm not trying to compare this to an M, just providing info to those who prefer smaller

cameras. Also, one thing I did notice was how quiet this little digital seemed to be.

 

I did take note that Pentax makes a 50/1.2... if it is a decent performer, it would make this

a nice low light digital after seeing what it can do at ISO 800 ; -)

[Brad_]

I played around with the Pentax a month or two ago. It's a very nice camera - great

ergonomics and no (at least extremely small) shutter lag. It was very tempting based

on size. But in the end, being an SLR without benefit of real-time LCD viewing and

swivel screen, it would still severely cramp the way I like to shoot. Still looking at it

though...

[travis1]

Brad, your Sony? has shutter lag? I always wonder why you kept with digital all these while...anything you don't like about films?

 

just asking.;0

[cameron_sawyer]

"Stop Gap Camera while we wait for a Digital M"

 

-- that would be an M6 TTL and a bag full of Portra 160 NC and Portra B&W.

[shel_belinkoff2]

That's an 85mm/1.8 Marc ... quite a nice lens. The backward lens compatibility of the istD is outstanding.

[robert_clark]

Mark,

 

I believe they have largely disabled backwards compatibility with pre-A lenses, by deliberately cheapening the mount: that means that unless a lens has an A setting the camera won't know what aperture you are using - unfortunately this rules out all the K and M lenses that were so beautifully built. Pentax affectionados refer to this new bayonet as the 'Crippled Mount'.

 

This is obviously a real pity, since there are plenty of people with a decent collection of these older lenses who may have jumped at this camera. I find it difficult to understand why manufacturers cheapen things and at the same time cut out potential new customers.

[fotografz]

Thanks Shel, I know little about Pentax stuff. But I though it was a nice little lens. Built

quality was outstanding. I absolutely loved the 45mm Pancake.

 

Frank, B&H price is about $150 or so less than a 10D right now, and Pentax has a rebate

of $200. when you buy it with a "digital" wide zoom (can't vouch for the lens offered,

probably consumer grade optics)

 

Cameron, that's my plan also. But some are itching to try digital and this seemed like a

nice little camera to learn on for not a lot of money (comparatively speaking). the older

Pentax manual lenses can be had for a song.

 

How it stacks up to the Canon 10D I can't say by just using it for a couple of minutes.

But the size was got my attention. Pix at ISO 800 were pretty impressive for a digital.

[fotografz]

Robert, are you sure about that? Paul said there was some fix that now allowed older

lenses to be used. He had some pretty old glass in his kit if I recall. But, as I said, I know

little about Pentax 35mm stuff. Just passing on an experience that seemed viable for those

who prefer smaller gear.

[david_kelly1]

After reading today's Mike Johnston column I Googled up the Panasonic

Lumix DMC-LC1 with Leica 28-90mm f2-f2.4 zoom. Except for the highest

ISO being 400, I couldn't see much this camera doesn't have that I

would want in a digital M. So maybe the wait is over.....

[boris_brecelj]

I have the Oly E-1 and I must say that as far as DSLRs go it is great. Everything is weather-sealed, built like a tank - rock solid.

 

The standard battery runs for ages it took me quite some time to stop being nervous when it's gonna run empty ;) The viewfinder is very bright although a bit "small" compared to an "M"

 

I only have one lens - the 14-54/2.8-3.5 zoom. I am anxiously awaiting Olympus (or Sigma) to introduce 18mm (35mm) and 25mm (50mm) but unfortunately they do not seem to be on the priorities list of Olympus.

 

More or less I can only praise the camera except for the small lens selection but hopefully that will change.

 

The camera does tend to have a bit more noise from ISO 800 and upwards than 10D (as per dpreview) but I can only restate what has been said before - the noise is not obtrusive and has a very "organic" look to it. That said ISO 800 and 1600 are OK for me but 3200 does have a bit too much noise for my liking.

 

All in all I am very pleased with E-1!

 

regards, boris

[dan_brown4]

There must be some mistake?! I read earlier that 6MP is no better than a 3.0 lier BMW?

What gives?

[Brad_]

<I> Brad, your Sony? has shutter lag? I always wonder why you kept with digital all

these while...anything you don't like about films</I>

<P>

 

Hi Travis, yes, my sony has shutter lag. Something I've learned to live with - similar to

some people learning to live without autofocus or other compromises, such as having

to cock the shutter for each exposure. I shoot digital because of the convenience -

both in capture and in post processing.<P>

 

I can shoot 200-300 frames in an afternoon in San Francisco, and have them on my

hard disk within 5 minutes after I get home, ready to process in ps. I also like the

look of digital better, though I think film is getting close. And the $$$ I save,

probably around $6,000/yr with no film/processing.

[travis1]

Ok Brad. I think you'll do just as fine with any media.;0

[keith_merrill]

Robert said "I believe they have largely disabled backwards compatibility with pre-A lenses, by deliberately cheapening the mount: that means that unless a lens has an A setting the camera won't know what aperture you are using - unfortunately this rules out all the K and M lenses that were so beautifully built. Pentax affectionados refer to this new bayonet as the 'Crippled Mount'. "

 

This is no longer the case as a firmware update available as a download from the pentax website fixes this problem. K and M lenses will work on the *istD. I have played around with this camera and found it was very well built, small, great viewfinder and intuitive. The luminous landscape attacked this camera, and to me it seems like he favors stuff like the sony 828 and canon "look how big my camera is, and do you like how large the white lens is" dslrs.

 

I took more than a strong look at this camera and really had to sit myself down and find out what and how I like to shoot. I was contemplating this camera because my 35mm slr setup is pentax with primes ranging from 24-300mm and I have the 77 and 31mm limited lenses that are great, but in the end I just decided that I really don't like to shoot digital and I wouldn't want to buy computer related stuff to store images. In other words, it aint for me, but there are a group of shooters who are singing the praises of the *istD.

[lacey_smith4]

to answer Robert about dumbing down the newer pentaxes to disllaow older lenses. Not, so, as I understand it. Pentax did have a few interim consumer models of the Z series (NOT the ZX5/7, good bodies) that did not have the mechanical linkage for the diaphragm of the older lenses, but that is not the case with their better cameras. The digital one discussed -- as initially released -- could use all K mount lenses, it just could not do open aperture metering with an older "M" lens (it would work, just metering stopped down). This month/last month, Pentax released a downloadable firmware patch that has fixed that as well. Should work well with all K lenses. Now, the oldest, the "M" lenses, may not "program", I think that still takes an "A" lens or newer.

 

Most of this from the Pentax forum. I am older manual generation, now going back to some Pentax SLR for the third time (I'm still a dmominant Leica RF user). Pentax had some great stuff (still does, I suppose). Always more successful overseas than in the U.S.

[shel_belinkoff2]

"I believe they have largely disabled backwards compatibility with pre-A lenses, by deliberately cheapening the mount: that means that unless a lens has an A setting the camera won't know what aperture

you are using - unfortunately this rules out all the K and M lenses that were so beautifully built. Pentax affectionados refer to this new bayonet as the 'Crippled Mount'. "

 

That's history ... a few weeks ago there was a firmware upgrade that allowed the K and M lenses to be used with the new mount with improved compatibility. And, surprisingly, the earlier screw mount lenses always worked. The lens that Marc was using was a screwmount lens, iirc, circa 1969-70. Paul and I are both on the Pentax list, and I recall Paul mentioning the lens he used.

 

shel

 

That said

[jay_.]

I happily use Pentax Super-Multicoated Takumar screwmount lenses on my Canon DSLRs. They are nicer to manual focus than the Canon EF lenses. They are also much smaller, lighter, in most cases sharper and less flare-prone and just as well-built as the Leica R lenses I used to have, plus I need only one adaptor which costs $25 and can be left on the camera if desired (the R-EOS adaptors you have to take the lens off the body to remove the adaptor), and the lenses have stopdown levers on them for instant switching between full and shooting aperture, so they act like preset lenses vs fully manual diaphragms. I picked up 28/3.5, 35/3.5, 50/1.4 and 135/2.5 for around $250 for the lot. I've got an extra 55/2 and a 55/1.8 that came with Spotmatic bodies I picked up, if anyone wants one of those lenses I'll sell 'em for $30 each, shipped in the lower 48.

[paulstenquist]

Those who pointed out that the new firmware makes the *istD backward compatible with all Pentax bayonet mount lenses are correct. In fact, even the early screw mount lenses can be used with an adapter. The lens Marc used onmy camera, the 85/1.8 is a K series model from the early eighties or late seventies. Many of these K series lenses are wonderful optics. With K and M series lenses (M lenses are the subsequent compact variants), the camera gives you center weighted metering that is quite adequate for most purposes. With the later A lenses, all metering functions (matrix, program, spot, and center weighted) are available.Of course with the most recent F and FA lenses, you get all of the above plus autofocus.

[robert_clark]

To Paul, Keith et al. who have updated me, thank you. As a Pentax LX user with a number of K and M lenses, as well as A, I was pretty disappointed when this IST D came out and people were saying Kand M lenses wouldn't work on it.

 

I am heartily glad that that is no longer the case. If I ever feel the need to go digital, I'll keep it in mind.

 

Does the updated firmware work seamlessly with these older lenses?

[joshroot]

Sure makes me far more interested in the *ist (or what ever it's called). I had mostly ignored it until now. But maybe I'll try and get my hands one one to play with.

 

Still though, I can't imagine having two dSLR systems. I think I'm going to have to stick with just the Canon's until I am able to add a digital RF of some kind.

[paulstenquist]

The updated firmware works as seamlessly as possible given the constraints of using a manual lens on an automated body. When shooting with the K or M lens you set the stop, then push the green button, and the camera sets the shutter speed on the basis of the center weighted meter. If you change the stop, the camera will change the speed without you asking for another meter read.

[patricks]

A Pentax DSLR makes sense if one already owns Pentax glass, otherwise I much rather invest in Canon or Nikon at this point in the DSLR rat-race.

[keith_merrill]

"A Pentax DSLR makes sense if one already owns Pentax glass, otherwise I much rather invest in Canon or Nikon at this point in the DSLR rat-race."

 

This is true, probably for most people, but you can pick up some great manual focus pentax glass for next to nothing and not have to carry around big zoom lenses, but of course it is a personal preference. I bought a 200mm f4 and 135mm f3.5 for 15 bucks apiece, the 50f1.7 goes for about the same, and Keh has 35f2 for under a hundred usually. These are from the m series of lenses and are quite small and good to great quality. Pentax seems to keep their cameras small and the *istD is no exception. Its a tiny camera that coupled with a 50 f1.4 M lens would be a pretty good walk around camera that won't freak people out by its size.

[jeff_rivera5]

What's it like manual focusing with this camera? Digital finders are not known for their brightness. Is the firmware upgrade shipping in camera now, or is it a user mod, and if so, is it a PITA? Having no huge glass investment, I'm open to anything.