So... what was wrong with this forum?

[jim_britt1]

I'm just curious as to why people quit. I mean, I've seen the headlines, I quit...

bye bye etc. and it seems to me, if you don't like it, you just don't sign on

again. In the same line of thought, being relatively new to this, what were the

areas of conflict. I've enjoyed the forum, the photos, the arguments and even

the political arguments. Discussion is good. Now I did find some people rude

and unessesarily rude, but hey, it's only typing. there were mention of "heros"

who left, but I think others replace them and any serious craft questions can

be answered by those who are still here. the sharing of information is the best

way to learn. i know in my career it was the encouragement of my peers and

the exchange of ideas that helped me along. Showing and telling. The most

important part of learning.

Thanks

Jim<div></div>

[jim_britt1]

a bit smaller... and it should be, Thanks, Jim<div></div>

[m_.]

Jim: Best way to handle the "problem" is to laugh about it, as these two girls did. Nothing's wrong and everything as usual. People get dramatic from time to time and that's the way it is to some people.

 

BTW, great shot.

[jim_britt1]

Thanks... my daughters a long time ago at 11 and 12... my favorite shot

[roger_michel]

the truth, of course, lies somewhere in between. before the bust-up, the forum had the best mix of members in all the years i've been a member, going back to before this was a photonet forum. unfortunately, some of the relationships got a little twisted. don't underestimate the loss. the forum will be very lucky to attract such a talented and generous group of photographers again.

 

there was also a good mix of political views, and generally a good sense of when to go OT with political, etc. stuff. that also is gone now, as much because of the cast change as out of fear of offending new forum guidelines.

 

in the end, maybe it is appropriate for the forum to evolve into something else just at the same time as photogrpahy (especially leica photography) is itself morphing.

 

look forward to the future of the forum, but don't pretend that a productive community has not ben lost. the archives speak for themselves.

[patricks]

Jim, love the shot!

 

But this topic has been talked about enough. I for one feel that the essense of the forum is gone, it won't come back, it might evolve to something else, I hope...

[peter_n1664876959]

There were some very knowledgeable people here, many of whom disbursed their expertise with a smile, a minority with a sneer. I miss most of them, and the forum is definitely not the same without them. However, some of them can still be found in other photo.net forums.

[derek_stanton2]

Who left? Why? And, where did they go?

[karl_knize]

I think that people forget that this is all bits in cyberspace. If you

don't like the thread, or where it's headed, try clicking. It's like

everything else though. People want a set of rules about

everything, and money is in the picture somehere, so the

censorship begins.

[Tony Rowlett]

What Derek said.

[eric_.]

<i>What Derek said</i><br><br>

Perhabs someone that boosted the amount of members, not to mention the cash flow?

[jake_tauber]

Given Leica's history in the world of photography, this should be the most ecumenical of all forums. But oddly, too many posters here seem to want to limit what's discussed, shown and said. Old fashioned cameras...old fashioned thinking? I don't know. So as not to set off the "Leica is God" group, I've been using Leicas for 25+ years.

 

I think Roger has got it right. Especially, regarding the voices who have left. Can their places be filled? Again, I don't know. I hope so. But it will be difficult to find such well informed, generous, talented and experienced people again. Were some of them rude and cranky? Sure. But, so what. Have any of you been in a supermarket parking lot lately?

[al_kaplan1]

There was a lot of animosity between certain forum members. A few who kept chiming in just to say negative things. On occasion some borderline ethnic slurs. A lot of completely off topic stuff. People getting defensive about their use of old fashioned technology in the face of the digital invasion. A lot of tensions flared up. Some of the "Knowledgeable People" left just to get away from the B.S., others because they were part of the problem. One was supposedly banned, but still posts on other forums. Now we have a few new wise guys who just like to see their name above a clever post, but add no new insight into Leica photography. Some of these won't even use their real name on the forum. (Some people with web names are very nice, however.) Anyway, things are much more peaceful now. Enjoy it!

[jake_tauber]

Mr. Kaplan is one the experienced, talented, generous types who has chosen, thankfully, to stay with this forum. And, I will admit to more than one silly thread posted solely with the intention of lightening up the sometimes too serious conversations here. But Al, too much "peace" can deaden the senses. :>)

 

 

BTW, I have a lot of family in South Florida, they do seem calmer than when they lived in colder climes. Perhaps it's the humidity, or the intoxicating aroma of Cuban cigars.

[david j.lee]

i do not think you can smell any cuban cigars in miami, only florida cigars.

when i want a cuban i buy it either in havana or mexico....

[andy m.]

I very much agree with Jake here about Al. He has certainly helped me out a couple of times with good advice.

 

Anyway, the forum will evolve to be what we want it to be, as a group. It is dynamic entity with new members joining all the time. No single group of people have the monopoly on Leica knowledge. Just give it time.

[h._p.]

I'm very much afraid that I think the basic question is meaningless. There was nothing wrong and there is nothing wrong with this forum. It's a place where people post pictures and discuss Leica-ish things. A few people took it too much to heart as some do but that happens all the time.

 

In my opinion, there's nothing broke so there's no point in looking around for ways to fix it.

[jake_tauber]

David,

 

Then you're just not talking to the right people. Many Cuban cigars to be found in Miami. I only wish I could get to Havana...great music...great photo ops.

 

BTW, here's a site where you can order Cubans. Good prices. Real deal. http://www.gerard-pere-et-fils.com/

[awahlster]

Jim as the father of a 24 year old girl. I was wondering that if your daughters looked like that at 11 and 12, I assume you have no hair left now! My daughter while pretty was kind enough to leave me with most of my origional hair! I have always loved her for that.

 

Mark W.

[david j.lee]

thanks jake. great site....

[derek_stanton2]

Tony,

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic.

 

I think, when the server problems happened, i missed the posts that are being

discussed. Afterwards, i caught only posts with references to some sort of exodus,

but i never figured out the reasons. I thought it might have been related to Jay's ban,

and/or the new "underground forum."

 

I was disappointed to see that Marc Williams isn't here any longer.

 

I was disturbed to read, more recently, that certain people are not happy with a "more

P.C. forum." I've never understood why NOT OFFENDING PEOPLE is so undervalued. If

THAT is what PC is, fine, slap the label on me.

[Tony Rowlett]

Derek, I know you weren't being sarcastic.

[Tony Rowlett]

What Harvey said. :-)

[chip l.]

Respectfully Harvey, there are things wrong. But some of us are powerless to change it. Flip comments by moderators and others while still asking for money and support have left a bad taste for some.

 

There are those like myself that "dropped out" in last years dust up. Occassionally dropping in, but not as much as we did before. For some it is no loss (when discussions turn OT), but a loss for those that want info on gear and technique from those of us with experience or connections to the industry.

 

And that is what drives PN, not the OT posts, but helpful and intelligent information. Being told that those for what ever reason that have not been sent $ to PN are "freeloaders", or being told "What ever <x> said" is deeming to all that come to PN.

[working camera]

Internet forum history tells us that competing egos make for a lively discussion. They

also so have a habit of degenerating and selfdestructing. The old alt-photography

forum (for those who knew it) is the classic example. It�s a shame that this happens

and people lose �family� but just like life this is an ephemeral place. Newcomers need

to understand when a fallout occurs there is a real sense of loss within the

established community which remains. Nobody likes it when friends leave town. For

relative jonny come latelies such as myself it�s none of our business as to the

personalities and wherefores that came before us. But we should be understanding

and respect the sensibilities of those who were active participants in the �lost forum.�

 

Photo.net is large enough to absorb the fallout, which will allows it to evolve into

something else, hopefully with some of the richness and purpose which existed in the

past. No it will never be the same for the oldies, perhaps it my even overtime become

better at least for some people as new talented and knowledgeable entrants enter the

fray.

 

Craig