W/NW : Children Without Playgrounds

[Alex_Es]

M6 + 35/2 Asph.<div></div>

[thomas_turk]

Just because this guy shoots with a Leica, he reckons every shot is a masterpiece.. This mediocre, posed snapshot could have bin taken with a throw.away fuji, and.. without the slightest effort on the part of the photographer to make a good photograph..Light, DOF, natural etc.. Maybe our MR AS shouls spend a few hours with jaymaisel.com and try again..

[diego_k.]

<center> <img src=http://misfotos.no-ip.org/diego/fotos/argentina/images/San-Telmo%2C-Chicos-II.jpg> </center>

[Brian1664876441]

Clearing the backyard to make a Playground.<div></div>

[Alex_Es]

Thomas Turk sounds like a kid without a playground.

[EricM]

take no notice Alex, we're making a group effort here to ignore this kind of trolling.

[thomas_turk]

Dont kill the messenger...if u post fotos on PN, where members have the right, and possibilty to comment, u have to expect critique..One of the ideas of PN, Mr. Greenspun, correct me if I am wrong, is for us all to improve..whether mediocre, poor or good, amateurs, or pros, as well to exchange ideas, techniques etc... Giving a critique is not trolling..If u dont want a critique, either dont post, or say, no critique, or post a good fotograph.. Being sarcastic or rude hardly gets u credibility..

[Alex_Es]

Don't kill the messenger. Just tell him it's time for his medication.

[victor_cruz1]

I thought this was a W/NW thread. If so, doesn't that mean to critique if you wish? So what's the problem? If no critiques are desired, then why not post as NW?

[travis1]

"Just because this guy shoots with a Leica, he reckons every shot is a masterpiece"...

 

SInce when did Alex say this? ANd this is not rude? What credibility are you talking about with statements like that? Go ahead and critique but why the outburst? Your second part of the critique was fair enough from your POV...but not the above.

 

I think we have gone through numerous encounters like these and really, we don;t need more.

[Alex_Es]

Thanks, Travis, for your comments.

 

I've been a little light above. After the dark subjects I've been dealing with lately I needed a laugh. Excuse me...

 

Now, since this is going to be one of those threads, I'm going to try to save it.

 

Thomas Turk, if you are still with us listen up. I'm going to tell how to write a deadly critique which will be ironclad against any accusations that you are a troll. And, mind, before you retreat, I have to tell you that you are getting this advise from an MFA who has been trained in the secret skills of trashing any work of art that ever existed.

 

You still with me, Thomas Turk? Only a troll blathers about a guy's Leica. A trained art killer does this:

 

Shishin's photograph is an attempt at social commentary that however humane in intent fails because of certain compositional reasons. [Don't forget: Damn with faint praise from the start--it shows how fair minded you are.] There are certain obvious problems. The dead space representing the wall above the seated figures is one obvious example. The dead floor space in the lower in the lower left hand corner is another example. [You're showing how exact you are and that you do know something about formal composition--this establishes your authority.] Far more serious is the unfortunate interaction between the photographer and his subjects. One would hope for a scene unintruded upon by the photographer in which the children, unaware they are being photographed, would be their natural selves. Having seen the photogapher they go into unnatural poses and hence diminish both the aesthetic and social impact of the photograph. [You're going for the jugglar, dude, don't fumble.] It was Claude Levi-Strauss who observed in regards to anthropological fieldwork that the observer could disrupt and hence falsify the behavior of the observered by his or her presence. This is exactly what is happening in this case and why this photograph is a failure. [This show how broadly read and intellectual you are. You've clinched it. You've trashed the photograph but don't stop.] Had the photographer continued to shoot when the subjects had lost interest it is very possible he would have shot a satisfactory photograph. [You are showing your fair-mindedness and your experise as a photographer.] This was the technique employed by Eugene Smith. [Killer reference!] I would sincerely urge this photographer to study that great photographer's techniques before again pressing the shutter of his Leica M6. [The last establishes you as a teacher. You may want to leave out the last sarcastic twist. It all depends on whether you've had a bad day or not. If you have had a bad day leave it in. You'll feel better.]

 

Okay, Thomas Turk, you've learned the secret for trashing anyone's work of art. Even Piccaso doesn't stand a chance against you now.

 

If you employ this often enough the folks at Leica Photographic Forum might even chip in to buy to a Leica (or at least a Bessa R2) to mellow you out.

[sid_sharma]

Hey Alex - where did you shoot that picture? I am working on a B&W series of teenage punk wannabees in my city, and your subjects are very much like the teenagers I shoot who are hanging out after school.

[Alex_Es]

Actually, Sid, I shot it at the entrance to my apartment building. This is at night. The poor kids don't have any place to hang out and play so they just do it on the floor.

[awahlster]

PUNK wattabes???? did you miss the NERD side of this photo those are trading cards they are playing with while most likely waiting for a bus or train to take them home. Look at the clothes these kids aren't punks and they aren't street kids. They are all very close in age most likely all go to the same school. LOOK AT THE PHOTO.

[h._p.]

Actually, I rather liked it Alex.

[olivier_reichenbach]

Thomas Turk, this not critique. This is low and mean sarcasm and nastiness.

 

roger m, if you read this, this is exactly what I've been trying to do here: reacting

against this kind of vicious personal attacks which regularly poison this forum.

 

Alex, I'd like to post, but in my corner of the woods it is very difficult to photograph

children in public places. The last time I tried (children actually playing in a school's

playground), a mother came yelling at me like I was some kind of pervert. I was so

stunned and scared that I never tried again.

[Alex_Es]

Harvey, thank you. I know you do not hand out praise easily.

 

Oliver, I'd never photograph children in North America and probably Europe. Here in Japan when I've photographed children in the presence of their parents they have actually told the children to thank me. This is still a very innocent nation in spite of a lot of not so innocent things that go on here. I love Japan in spite of some of those not innocent things.

[mike_webster]

~~~<div></div>

[jake_tauber]

Part of the on-going frustration with this and other forums is the ease at which people take pot shots at posted images. The hard part of critique is offering helpful suggestions on how to make work better. It's easy to identify a problem. Sollutions take creativity and thought.

[EricM]

<div></div>

[bob_lazzarini]

Alex,<br>

I like your photo, and even better your own art critique.<br>

Very classy.<br>

In addition to Mr.Turk being rude, he is apparently unaware of the various species of photography that exist.<br>

While he has every right to say what he needs or wants to say, being nasty about is not very couth.<p>

Mr. Turk,<br> According to your bio, you travel quite a bit and use "high end" photo equipment.<br>

I really (honestly) would like to see some of your photos. <br>Cheers!

[zekkar jacques]

A lot childrens have not play grounds

helas !<div></div>

[Craig_Cooper11664875449]

Commom guy, fess up... who left the door open?

[m_.]

>>Thomas Turk , mar 06, 2004; 09:32 a.m. Just because this guy shoots with a Leica, he reckons every shot is a masterpiece.

 

Tom: That's an outragous comment at best. You might not need to like a photograph but you don't have to blast on someone's work. Any camera can take shots if we are talking about the computer screen display so why argue about that point? Truly many shots you just have to see the prints. As you said later, we are here to learn - that's exactly we post and learn from each other, but not through rude and psychologically unbalanced blast. We have a couple of people here who enjoy doing this to other members but most of us don't. Just something to think about.

[icuneko]

On being criticized/critiqued, someone once said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."