greg_moss2 Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Is it just me or does Canon have a reason to make the 10D and now the 1D MkII's LCD viewfinder inaccurate. Or as David Drakin put it in his 1D MkII Superbowl Review, "The one thing Canon warned me about is that the preview screen is about a stop brighter that [sic] the actual image will be, which is something to get used to." Why get use to it? Yes, I use histogram to determine exposure, but it would be nice not to have "to get used to" it. Is there a reason? Does anybody have a fix? My Canon D30's LCD was very accurate. I shoot under rapidly changing light and really miss the instant feedback. Plus, my cameras are used by others who don't know where to start on a histogram. Thanks for letting me vent. I feel better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard thompson www.fotoz Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 I have my the brightness of the screen on my 10D at the lowest-but-one setting (mainly to conserve battery) and hadn't really noticed this. But then I only use the screen to check composition and occationally zooming in to check focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_________1 Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Cut a minus 1-stop Neutral Density gel to size and slide it into the LCD window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beauh44 Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Can't you adjust the brightness in setup? I understand histograms are a little tough for newbies, but I've come to realize from experience that it can be very dangerous to rely on the LCD for exposure confirmation. Best wishes . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photobyalan.com Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 <i>"Plus, my cameras are used by others who don't know where to start on a histogram"</i><p> I have to say, if they don't know anything about histograms, they really have no business using a digital SLR. It's akin to driving a car but having no idea how to read the speedometer, tachometer or fuel gauge. <p> Since the LCD screen has a brightness setting, it's also rather strange to say that it is going to be "a stop brighter than the image". What happens if you turn the brightness down? Or up? Doesn't that change the relationship? I know that adjusting the viewscreen doesn't make the actual image change, so it MUST change the relationship. If the viewscreen were not brightness-adjustable, then this might be an issue. BTW, having the viewscreen brighter makes it much easier to see if you've captured shadow detail and gives you a very clear indication that you are approaching clipping of the highlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_helmke Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Histograms aren't all that hard to read. If you are going to use a DSLR then learn how to use it. It isn't rocket science but it isn't a Brownie either. I have found the color on my 10D and 300D screens are kind of close but tend to be blue. Brightness is an adjustment. Rick H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_moss2 Posted February 12, 2004 Author Share Posted February 12, 2004 The LCD Brightness control changes the intensity of the screen, not the exposure or brightness of the image. (Take an image with blown highlights, they may be fine on a calibrated monitor, but not on the back of the 10D. Compare it to video on a camcorder. You can have an image that appears dim or dark on a TV, but still has washed out highlights.) Thanks, but using an ND gel and/or adjusting the brightness level only changes the intensity of the LCD screen, not the perceived exposure value of the image. BTW, I use calibrated monitors, light meters, and controlled lighting in some situations. The LCD makes me think I have washed highlights when they are dead on! The Point & Shoot cameras from Canon, Nikon are more accruate than my 10D. Yes, I understand Histograms, but they do not replace an good clean, wellexposed image for fast feedback. But don't compare driving a car to using a DSLR. I work with all kinds of students, corporate clients and semi-professionals. Having to explain that my DSLR is inferior to their P&S really leaves them laughing. I'm not looking for perfection, but D30's features, not resolution, seem to really hit the mark much better. (Maybe I had 2 flukes of nature.) And now that I want to upgrade to the 1D MkII, I thought this was problem of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basscheffers Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 And I assume that you read your LCD in controled light conditions after each photo? They are absoltely useless for anything other than checking composition and maybe focus, when zoomed in. Oh, and displaying a hostogram of course. But checking exposure on them is impossible unless you are _way_ off the mark. How hard is it for your other users to understand "if it is sqaushed up to either of the sides, it's over/under exposed and if it is squashed up to both sides you don't have enough dynamic range to capture the scene. Use a grad or choose what to lose: shadows or highlights". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppyDigs Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Correct brightness isn't a big deal for me. Even when my 10D LCD is maxed out it's still too dim to see in bright sunlight in Hawaii, conditions I shoot in everyday. I can barely see the histogram when shooting on white sand beaches. Sometimes the light’s all shining on me. Other times I can barely see. - Robert Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_moss2 Posted February 12, 2004 Author Share Posted February 12, 2004 Thanks for all your input. At least the 1D MkII does have the "Highlights" or Zebra pattern to let you know when you've blown out the highlights. ON the 10D the inset image is so small, its hard to see where the highlights are. Regarding using people who can read histograms: I work with all sorts of people, from engineers to students. They have a 2 minute "hands on" lesson and then go out and shoot pictures that we use for screen shows. We only ask that they have some experience with 35 mm SLR or DSLR. We are not paid to train them, only to let them capture memories where we can't go. And yes, I understand the concepts; I've been doing photography, motion picture filming and professional video for almost 25 years. Yes, I still learn stuff every time I shoot, but I am always looking for ways to improve mine and others shooting with the equipment I have at my disposal. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard harris Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 I don't quite understand the patronising tone of some of the responses, I guess that's just the internet for you! The 10D's LCD is indeed way off, it's a known issue. God knows why Canon have decided to do it that way, but it is annoying until you learn to ignore it. You simply have to look at the histogram and ignore the preview altogether, otherwise you will get underexposed images. It's possible that Canon decided to do this so that inexperienced users would under rather than over expose their photos and thus preserve highlights better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basscheffers Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Well, Richard, the original question had a pretty whingy "I just can't work this way, my way is the right way and I don't want to put any effort into changing it" tone to it. So I guess you reap what you sow... As for your theory: what inexperienced D1 Mk II users!? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_moss2 Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Thanks Richard! As George Bernard Shaw put it, "Some people are always content with the way things are. Some people are always complaining about the way things are. It's these people who cause progress to occur." (Paraphrased from high school days. So no literature critics, please ;-) My original quesion was to see if anybody else was irritated at this "feature", not to open the door to personal attacks or to cause a conflict. Who knows, when the warranty runs out, some engineer-type will figure out a way to "correct" the image. And BTW, when I'm in the studio or on location, I use an external monitor that is calibrated. Clients love it! Now, let's talk, eat and sleep photography. Whether digital or film based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william_le Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 The short answer is 'adjust the brightness of screen. If it's bright, lower it. They made the bright setting so you can see them in direct sunlight. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_moss2 Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Thank You. But again, the brighness control on the LCD viewfinder only controls the intensity of the LCD screen, not the preceived or recorded exposure value. Film users: If I over expose a 35mm slide, it does not matter how dim my projector lamp or slide viewing table is set, it will not bring back washed out highlights. Video Users: If the viewfinder on a camera/camcorder is set too low, you tend to overexpose your image. Especially in stage lit or harsh lighting conditions. Please understand, this is not a user adjustable setting. Even Canon service reps agree. You would need Gamma, Contrast, Drive, Color, Hue and Picture controls to accurately set the image. Then you would need an image to calibrate to. (Like high-end video cameras have SMPTE color bars built-in for that very purpose)Now there's an idea. Put a built-in generated image in the camera for downstream calibration. I can dream can't I! To summarize, I like the Canon 10D. I can live with the 1DMkII. (I hope soon!)But it would be nice if the LCD screen could be accurately calibrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_mactire Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 I am a film shooter and wonder what you use the LCD for? Isn't it much too small to accurately see your image? I realize you can zoom in, but still. Most I would see myself using it for is the histogram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiestphoto Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 For a film shooter: Although the screen cannot be used to tell over or under exposure (that is what the histogram & flashing highlights are for), It can tell you critical things about you shot. You can see how well the flash worked, and increase it to remove shadows under the eye or decrease "flash" feel. You can model studio lights. You can see that you GOT the SHOT for sports or portraits. Then you know if you need to reshoot. You can zoom in enough to check focus on the 10D. You can show people how they look, even if it is only a approximation. This can loosen people up immediately. You can see if someone blinked (I have a REALLy fast blink reflex, so I blink for the first Flash in E-TTL. Uncountable things, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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