richard s. Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I wonder if anyone has any advice on using Kodachrome 64 for a beginner like me. Recently returned to real photography from digital. Have some basic gear, Contax T3 and a very small tripod. Over the past year have been shooting about a roll every 10 days or so and am trying to improve composition etc. Planning a trip to Nikko (beautiful temples and shrines up in the mountains, I live in Japan) this weekend and decided that I wanted to capture that 1970s National Geographic look. Heard from a friend that Kodachrome 64 is the film to use. Have just purchased a roll of the consumer version and am wondering if anyone has some tips on how to get good results. I am realitively new to slide film. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominic_. Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 For K64 you'll need to have tight exposure control, even 1/3 a stop will make a difference. Also, the consumer version is much cheaper than the pro version yet I see little difference and at half the price, it is my choice. Processing for Kodachrome in Canada (its sent to New Jersey) can be slow and unpredicatable, however I don't know if there is processing in Japan nor do I know of its QC. Good luck, DP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constance_cook Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Hi Richard: Nikko is not the ideal place to use Kodachrome 64. The temple/shrine area is heavily shaded and as the old saying goes, "The sun never shines in Nikko." I'd add, especially in winter. Also up in the main temple, you can't use a tripod and in the temples in the enclosure, photography isn't allowed but that's the only place in that area you can't take photos I'm aware of. You need to use someting considerably faster, especially if you're new to slide film. Nikko can make you crazy because there is so much that is awesome but it suffers so much from being absolutely gloomy. I have good photos from there and piles that aren't just because of the light. You can get some good landscape photos if you go over to the "Deceiving Jizos" where the whitewater is always good but contrasty. As you know, you needn't worry about quality control in developing or developing and printing in Japan. Quality control is excellent. Ah! If I could only get as good quality here as I get there! Conni Conni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_eaton Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I'm just curious if you've seen the actual slides National Geo photographers actually shot in the 1970s? All I see is nuances of magazine pre-press inks at work and not the actual images themselves. When you have a few hundred Kodachrome slides and then want to have them scanned, have your friend do them for you since he's such the expert. You'll find out real fast how you maybe should have used a modern E-6 film, but I guess the only way to learn your lesson sometimes is via the hard way. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Richard, this is a horrible film to deal with. Some people like the look, but the risk is great with this film stock. You have to be precise where you meter, and then your meter itself has to be precise. This film has the narrowest latitude I know of. If you manage to get great exposures, then you have to put them in the mail, and hope nothing happens. Once returned, you will have a difficult time scanning and printing. There�s a good reason why this film is soon to go the way of the dinosaur. I recommend Fuji E6, Velvia and Provia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven_zellner1 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Richard: Before you decide to use an 64 ASA film, check whether your camera will match will it. I use a little Olympus P&S camera (I think it is called the Stylus). I cannot set the meter to 64 ASA. The camera only sets to certain ASA readings, i.e. 50, 100, etc. I have to be a bit careful as per which film I can use. If you can set the T3's meter to an ASA of 64 (or better yet an EI of 80), why not try a roll and see if you like the results? If not, you will have to use another film. I doubt that you would suffer with one of the Fujifilm emulsions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard s. Posted February 5, 2004 Author Share Posted February 5, 2004 Everyone. Thank you all for your responses. Good thing I didn't already load the film!! Constance, do you have any suggestions as to which films would be suitable? I have a roll of Ilford Detla 400 and Kodak E100G in the fridge. Have never used either before - part of my planned experimentation with different films. I usually use Fuji Pro 400 or Fuji Reala 100 and have been extremely happy with the results. Seems a shame to use B&W at Nikko ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan_w. Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Make sure you know where to get it processed before you start. Options for K14 (Kodachrome process) developing are pretty scarce these days and getting more scarce all the time, it seems. I know that in the US there are only a small handful of labs that actually do Kodachrome processing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Just be sure to practice your technique before you go. Kodak has two Kodachrome processing machines in Tokyo, from what I understand. Do you live in Tokyo? The film is gorgeous. HB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Richard: Do not be afraid to use the Kodachrome. I use it all the time. It is wonderful stuff. HB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.t. dowling Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 If you're looking for the '70s National Geographic look but don't want to deal with the unfortunate hassles of Kodachrome, Ektachrome 64 (EPR) might be an acceptable alternative. It has a similar "retro" look and feel, with colors that are both accurate and bright. It is an interesting film that hasn't changed in a long time. It is has a bit more exposure latitude than Kodachrome, and because it's an E6 film, it can be processed almost anywhere. Another good film to try, if you want a gritty, journalistic look, is Kodak Tri-X 400 (black & white). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_appleyard Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Use that Kodachrome! I shoot it all the time, it's the best film made. Accurate colors and long lasting. Who cares about scanning, just send the slides to Slide Printers on Colorado if you want a print. Kodachrome is best when run through a projector. E-6--awful stuff!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beau 1664876222 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Some of you people are such alarmists. K-64 is great stuff. Shoot a few rolls and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constance_cook Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Hi Richard: All of who are pushing Kodachrome very likely haven't been to Nikko. When I say gloomy, I'm talking grey, really grey. If you do happen to luck into a sunny day, all you will get is extreme contrast. There are over 600 giant cryptomeria trees surrounding the area you want to photography (I have assumed you want to do Toshogu and the surrounding temples and shrines). It is an extremely difficult place to get a good photograph due to the light (or lack thereof). I don't feel one way or another about Kodachrome but I do know where you're intending to shoot and a slow film, especially one you haven't used and you're new to slide film, is not a good choice. Now if you want to just go burn some film and "have fun" then you can just go burn film. You are not likely to get much from it that will be satisfactory. If you could use your tripod everywhere you would still get very gloomy pics. You need something with some speed and a bit of punch to the color to capture this fabulous place. I always say "it's a wonderful photo op if it was just somewhere where there was some light." I shot some Velvia up there but only where I could use my tripod. I probably got four shots where the exposure was good enough to get photos I'm willing to show around. To reiterate it's a grey, gloomy place with stunnungly beautiful temples and shrines but both the trees and the weather patterns of Nikko keep it from being a great (good, even) place to use slow film. I don't usually shoot slides because I do print film and now use Portra UC both for the color punch and it's nice scanning qualities. It's not impossible to get a good photo but it's fushlugginer hard with slow film and the light is just not likely to be there. The thing is, when the sun does come out and you can see it hitting in spots, and you know how beautiful it really could be and your frustration level rises with your desire to get that shot -- and you can't. Before somebody jumps in and says I got good shots there, think about the film you used and if you happened to luck into one of the 25+ days when the light might be good. This is not the season for it. I don't like to see Kodak giving up on films that photographers enjoy. But my answer is based on years and years of photographiing in Nikko. And you also say, Richard, that you're new to slide film. That is not a good combination for success. Now if your objective is just to shoot film, have at it. You will learn something and who knows, maybe the kami will smile on you. I hope so. Get out from behind your camera to really look at the wonders available to you in this complex. Read up on it beforehand so you will understand what you're seeing before you get there. And also note that the photos in the guidebooks will appear flat and lack snap. That's the Nikko gloom. You might want to take some Kodachrome with you and shoot over around Lake Chuzenji or the Deceiving Jizo area. The Jizos are in the gloom but the whitewater and the mountain in the background can be nice if you luck into some sunshine. If you don't, don't waste your time because they will be very flat. Conni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.t. dowling Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Judging by Constance's description of the place, it sounds like Fuji Provia 400F would be a better choice if you want to shoot slide film. Otherwise, Kodak Portra 400UC would be a good print film choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted_ellis Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Kodachrome is a great film for bright sunny photos...not so good for the dark or cloudy days. My opinion....I've been shooting Kodachrome for 40 years now and I really like it. As others have said, it has a narrow exposure range, so bracket if in doubt. I am curious though when some are saying that Kodachrome "is hard to scan"?? I've been scanning and posting a lot of them on my website, and I think the scans are great, and I have been making prints from the scans on a photo ink jet. I use a Nikon ED 4000 scanner, with it set for Kodachrome. I will admit though that I have not scanned any other type of slide film, simply because I don't have any slides in my collection other than Kodachromes! Thanks... Ted Ellis Mesa AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Tardio Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Take a look at <a href="http://billhocker.com/">Bill Hocker's site</a>.<p>You'll find loads of beautifully scanned images scanned mainly from Kodachrome. Make sure you look at the large versions of the shots. I think you'll agree they have that "National Geographic" look.<p>But also take heed to what Conni tells you. I don't know if you can obtain Kodachrome 200 anymore, but that might be an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Kodachrome 200 is indeed available, both as an amateur and pro version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.t. dowling Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Kodachrome 200, unfortunately, is *extremely* grainy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard s. Posted February 6, 2004 Author Share Posted February 6, 2004 Thank you everyone for your invaluable contributions. I never expected so many answers. Off to Nikko tomorrow (Saturday) with a friend who has kindly agreed to lend me a Contax G2, 90mm lens, and preloaded with Agfa Optima 400 (he has used four or five exposures). Too late to go to a pro shop and pick up new film, but again the guy I'm going with offered Konica Sinbi Chrome 200. Thought that I'd load that into the T3 and take it from there. Once I get them developed will post some of the photos on this board. The Kodachrome 64 I'll save for another trip - looking forward to using it. I am interested in that '70s National Geo look though. Guess that's because I was born in '71 and those are, subconsciously at least, the first images that I "remember" seeing/saw. Although I understand the many advantages of digital, I actually like the so called disadvantages of film. I'm no luddite, I'm using an iPod as I write, I like the feel and atmosphere that film captures. Doing it on photoshop is not the same. Let's put it this way, I prefer chemistry to physics! I note that our Swiss colleagues have no trouble selling automatic watches despite the fact that quartz is way "better". So why not use film. Hmm, perhaps I am preaching to the converted ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 R.T. Dowling , feb 05, 2004; 11:20 p.m. "Kodachrome 200, unfortunately, is *extremely* grainy." But EXTREMELY sharp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_watson Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Jim beat me to the punch with his reference to Bill Hocker's evocative Japan images, most from a '70s Japan that now seems impossibly remote.Without belabouring the obvious, Richard, the '70s NG "look" was more the result of then-contemporary printing technology than it was Kodachrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Tardio Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Agreed, Gary, that the NG "look" is the result of the printing process...but not entirely. Nuances of that same look are easily found in other publications, and web shots like Bill Hockers. But, without a doubt, NG brought out the best in Kodachrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa2000 Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Welcome back to Photography :) I recommend you skip Kodachrome 64 and use Fuji Provia 100F or 400F instead. That's because for K64 is quite hard to find a lab to process it, and also it scans badly (if you'll ever need to scan you slides). PS: I don't really know what all these people find at K64... I used before, and still regret for all the frames ruined because of K64 near latitude (sunny days) or completly flat aspect and color cast (overcast or rainy)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Alexandru Averche , feb 07, 2004; 07:06 p.m. "Welcome back to Photography :) I recommend you skip Kodachrome 64 and use Fuji Provia 100F or 400F instead. That's because for K64 is quite hard to find a lab to process it..." Nonsense. Any drugstore or supermarket that uses Kodak or Qualex processing services can send it to the lab for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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