shachar_weis Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I don't have any canon gear. <br>I wanted to buy a 10D + 17-40mm<br>I really did. The 300D kit lens is good enough <br>for me but I don't like the 300D. <br>10D+17-40mm = 2100$<br><br>But then came the D70.<br><br>D70+kit lens = 1300$ (supposedly)<br>I could get a cheaper wide for the 10D, sigma maybe. <br>Does not matter, the difference is still huge.<br>I love canon gear but I can't ignore the difference here.<br>Unless canon lower the 10D's price and introduce a good wide for <br>digitals I'm going to have to switch camp.<br>I'm not trolling here, just venting a little.<br><br>Suprise me Canon. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
river side Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 if there's no IS in your life in the forseeable future.. by all means go for it.. I still think consumer Digital SLR's should be at most a 1.3x crop and under $600 to be really mainstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark cohran Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 If you don't have any Canon gear then you're not switching camps, you're choosing your initial camp. You comments don't follow a logical progression though... Digital equipment will continue to get better and cheaper (at least for a while) as the manufacturers compete. That's a great thing for the consumer. You need to choose system based on the whole system (lenses, cameras-both film and digital, and other accessories) and not on the basis of a single body. If that means you go to Nikon, great. That will be what works for you. But, don't expect anyone to sympathize with you if choose based on the single body, then lament your choice 6 months to a year later when the other camera company brings out their new and improved version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Why should you care? Why should we care? If Nikon offers better value, buy Nikon. Pretty simple, Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phule Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 And when Canon beats Nikon in 6 months, then what? And when Nikon wows you again 6 months after that, switch again? Where does it end? Why become absorbed in equipment-porn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgione Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Do you dislike the 300D so much, that you'd pay more than double for the 10D combo? I have a hard time understanding why so many people 'hate' the 300D. I went to a shop and played with a few digital cameras, including the 10D. I found the 300D much friendlier, the 10D is loaded with knobs, buttons, dials. Yeah, the 10D has mirror lock up, but I find it unacceptable for a such an expensive camera to not have the timer customizable. Do you care for the custom functions in the 10D? Me venting, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_austin Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 "But then came the D70." Uh, I don't think it has come yet, has it? If it looks tempting on the basis of its announced specifications, recommend you wait until it is actually released, then read a few performance reviews before deciding. I can guarantee that Canon is quite aware of the D70, and will make the competitive response it deems appropriate, when it deems it appropriate. They may still lose you, though. Isn't it great to have choices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crowe Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 As I have been saying for a long time: if you manage your photography as a hobby and on a budget then do not consider purchasing a DSLR for at least 2 more years maybe even 4. Wait until the manufacturers have figured out what they are doing, and until they have a top quality DSLR for a reasonable amount of money. In the mean time you can do one of two things, decide which system you want and get the cheapest used film camera for that system and start building a nice set of lenses that will be compatible with their proper DSLR when it becomes available, or buy a point and shoot digital camera for under $500 and start honing your software skills for when you do get a DSLR system. Manufacturers have put photography at a major crossroads for amateurs and there is no point rushing into anything. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vassil_mihov Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Sorry, Shachar, I don't think your situation is Canon's problem. They offer you the 10D and the 300D; in my opinion, the D70 is a closer competitor for the 300D, not the 10D. Also, the 17-40 can't really be compared to the Rebel kit lens (and likely, the D70 lens), so it's not apples to apples. The paradox is, you don't like the 300D, but you like the kit lens? Does not compute, in my opinion. What, is it the silver finish? Don't worry, it's not going to show on your pictures. If you are price conscious (aren't we all), go with the 300D, you won't regret it. For the price, it is a great deal. But is not market competition wonderful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shachar_weis Posted February 9, 2004 Author Share Posted February 9, 2004 Thanks everyone for your answers, on second thought posting this was a mistake. As Bob said, you should not care. I was just venting. I don't like the 300D because I've handled it and it was not comfortable for me, I've also handled the 10D, which I loved, especially all the dials. I know its weird to say that I like the 300D kit lens. I wish canon will release a cheap digital wide this PMA. I know that in 6 months something new will come from the other side of whatever camp I choose. I won't care. I promise. Thanks, Shachar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbq Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Shachar: I'm totally on your side hoping that Canon will do more on the wide-angle side. I'm crossing my fingers for a 12-24. Yet, what's wrong with Canon's 20-35/3.5-4.5? (yes, it's not quite as wide as 17 or 18mm, but it's significantly cheaper than the 17-40, and it's available today). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casey mcallister Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 "Also, the 17-40 can't really be compared to the Rebel kit lens (and likely, the D70 lens), so it's not apples to apples." Yes it can!!! Here goes! One seventh the price weight - 190g vs 500g 15MM bonus focal length on the high end Less robust build Not weather sealed Slightly lower performance on the image edge, but not bad overall Constant f4 on 17-40 vs vairable 3.5/4.5 on 18-55 I'll keep my $600 bucks, stay away from combat photography, use the extra 15MM, and crop out the edges which were all doing anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldmoose Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 >>>John Crowe , feb 09, 2004; 12:16 p.m. <snip> In the mean time you can do one of two things, decide which system you want and get the cheapest used film camera for that system and start building a nice set of lenses that will be compatible with their proper DSLR when it becomes available,<snip> Not to pick on you, John, but what if someone decided to follow that advice a year or so ago, and picked the Olympus OM system? In a similar vein, what prevents Canon from deciding to drop EF lenses (unlikely as that seems) in favor of some digital-specific family to solve some knotty DSLR problem (like producing full-frame sensors at a reasonable price)? No matter what route someone chooses these days, unless they buy older film equipment (i.e. small investment, little to lose), there is still a risk that whatever they invest in, could be obsoleted in a short time. We have no control over the market, in spite of the fact that we participate in it. At some point, you pay your money and jump into the stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markci Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 >>> As Bob said, you should not care. Well thanks for posting, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crowe Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Dave, as you may have noticed that was one of my last ditch suggestions. I, for instance, am going to wait the 2-4 years just to avoid the problem you bring up about Olympus. Changing from one media to another after 20 years of photography is not going to help my photography so drastically that I can't wait for a proper DSLR. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg M Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Shachar, Good luck....have fun.... ...and what do you say when the next Canon model is "better" than the D70. "Nikon, you are losing me" Yeah right. Buy a film body and be happy. It won't be obsolete next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e_lin Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 ehem... Canon Elan 7. cheap, for only 300 bucks + 200-300 for film scanner + lenses (50mm 1.8II for 70 bucks) woohoo. Cheap ASs quality. plus you can get wide angle for cheap. the 28-105mm f3.5 is only 220 after shipping. film is alive i say :D, and im a teenager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liem_phan Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I'm still sticking with film, not ready to go digital yet. Don't want to buy something that's gonna be superceded in 6 months again and again and again. Like the other poster(s) said, I won't need to spend any $$ on super wide angle lenses to compensate for the silly lens mag factor. One day..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh1 Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Ha ha. This is too funny. You just said you don't have any Canon gear. Therefore, Canon never <i>had</i> you to begin with! Oh, I'm sorry. A fickle consumer was considering purchasing Canon gear and suddenly changed their mind based on what products were <i>currently</i> availible. I'm sure that everyone who works for Canon is now losing sleep because Nikon has won some battle going on up in your head. Ha ha ha. <p>These posts are hilarious. I guess Canon has <i>won</i> me (they own my soul!) cause I own thousands of dollars worth of equipment in their <i>system</i>. If you like what the Nikon <i>system</i> currently has to offer, then by all means, just buy it. I'm tired of these belly-aching posts about digital cameras that will be replaced with newer models in less than a couple years. <p>And while I'm on the podium, I'd like to tell people to quit worrying about camera equipment as <i>investments</i>. If you really wanna <i>invest</i> in something, put your money in real estate or mutual funds, or something that actually <i>appreciates</i>. I got news for ya, this doesn't include camera equipment (at least not the equipment we're talkin about here). Yes, camera equipment is verrrrry expensive. However, these are still just really expensive toys (unless maybe you make your living at it). Be a good American--go out and spend lots of money on camera equipment--but please, please, please, quit whining. This is perhaps the harshest post I've ever written....so please take it in somewhat "playful" tone. I can see the flaming arrows coming....take cover!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shachar_weis Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 First, I'm not American. Most of the world isn't. Second, you are absolutely right. My post is whiny. I would delete it if I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakim_peled1 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Bob, are you listening ? Happy shooting , Yakim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh1 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Sorry, Shachar. In the heat of the moment I sometimes forget the photo.net is a very international forum. My apologies. So have you purchased your new Nikon gear yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shachar_weis Posted February 11, 2004 Author Share Posted February 11, 2004 It'a OK. I'll be in NY in April. I wont decide until then. Waiting for the PMA.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_lloyd1 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 crikey !! It makes me laugh a lot to see threads like this. Its simple really if you want to take great shots and produce wonderfull images you have 2 choices. Film or digital. Which is better - who cares!! Which is more cost effective - simple film!! (when you take into account total capital outlay and depreciation) Which is instant - Digital but thats what you pay the premium for. Which is better quality (sharper etc..) - Film Which brand - Thats personal prefference, they all have their pros and cons and only by evaluating what you want can you hope to find which brand fullfills that. Digital is, and will be for the foreseable future a gadget. Unless you are a pro with clients who demand it, digital is far more expensive to work with. As with all gadgets it is expensive and will continues to have new enhancements for the foreseable future. As with most things you need to analyse what you really want to achieve and what the true costs are. The nearest parallel to digital cameras are computers. As with cameras they have been subject to over spec for a long while. Think about it most people only use a computer to surf the net, do their accounts and type the odd letter. You don't need much power to do this, the same is true of a camera. However if you can tell everyone that they should process their digital images at home on their home PC now you can sell millions of PC upgrades. Most people see absolutely no cost saving or benefit by using digital, they have no ability or wish to become image processing experts they just want pictures to show others. If they want to put them into digital format then they could just have them scanned and tweaked at a pro lab. This would still be far cheaper. I guess what I am saying is whatever you buy and whatever brand you choose is a personal thing, led in no small part by carefull marketing. Don't get suckered in, decide what you want to create and then choose the equipment to create those images. If you have equipment that meets those requirements then it can only become obsolite when your requirements change, not just because a manufacturer brings out a new model. If you want to just collect equipment thats fine but if you want to be a photographer then buy just what you need to achieve your goal. Just to put this in context I have worked as a pro for quite a while and even though I sometimes get asked for digital I am still film based. If the client wants digitised images then I can have the slides/negs scanned which my clients have been happy with. I occasionally use high end scanning backs for certain clients but I hire this equipment as required. Working this way suits me and has saved me tens of thousands in capital outlay. The client always gets what they want and they are happy. I have seen a number of pro studios go under because they switched to digital too early and incurred huge capital costs only to find the equipment still didn't deliver and that they also had to budget for huge amounts of in house processing time that the client wouldn't pay for. When the time is right I will switch to digital once the current development curve settles down and I can buy equipment that I know meets my requirements. At that point I don't care what bells and whistles the manufacturers add to their products because I will have invested in what meets my requirement so for me it can't become obsolite. Just my thoughts you don't have to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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