p__2 Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Hello: I have received as gift a used m301 Durst enlarger... Please excuse novice question, I and new to photography .. and studying photography in great detail these past couple months come to this simple bit and am stumped... .. what lens do I use with it? It came with a lens that is pretty beat up, and no specs on the lens that would give me clues other than it is "Will, Wetzler" "Made in Germany"...it is plastic, optics scratched quite badly, and gives poor quality and I can use it only for contact sheets. It has no other identifying information. This enlarger is definitely the weak link in the chain for me as far as quality of my images and what is the point of spending the $ on photo equip. just to have a poor/mediocre enlarger lens? I am shooting primarily w/ an M6 & 50mm Summicron, and wish to blow up to no larger than 8.5x11, and the current lens is threaded and screw directly into the enlarger. Again excuse the novice question, but when searching for an enlarger lens what are the specs. I am looking for? Any explanations greatly appreciated, and/or future advice. Any suggestions for a lens as well would be appreciated. Thank you ALL very much in advance..I truly appreciate it.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p__2 Posted February 29, 2004 Author Share Posted February 29, 2004 Also, I do not have any lens board. It screws directly into the enlarger.....I believe it is 39mm however it is not stated anywhere what the thread mount size is. I see 50mm, 63mm, 210mm, etc..what lens do I f-length do I require for what situation. I simply do not know what the H*ll I am looking for here... Apologies as I know this is off topic...just trying to get the best out my M6. I am a student and travel often using other's enlargers where I go...if I can purchase a high quality lens to keep and use where I go, I will do it. Kind regards, and again THANK YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacey_smith4 Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 the lens is probably std. Leica thread, and any good enlarger lesn shoud do well. The std size lenses for 35 mm are in the 40-60mm range, with 50 mm by far the easiest to come by, and would do you well. With so many switching to digital, seems as though the used enlarger lenses are sort of buyer's market. You may chance upon a good Schneider componon, Leica, or Rodenstock, or Nikon -- all had good lenses. You can look up in the web site for B&H photovideo for the cost distinctions (say, between the various Schneiders by their 2 or 3 names). A new, top of the line, will be several hundred, even e-bay prices are likely to be no less than 100-200, but a good deal. A Nikon is good, and the second-rank from the top brand companies is likely to do downright fine, but you are right, this is the weak link in your change, so get as good as you can afford (used). Contact me off-thread (direct e-mil), and I may have an extra Nikon or rodenstock for you. Fairly cheap (but, I also advise to look for the best you can find. These aren't bad, actually quite good). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark-j Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 I purchased a used 50mm Schneider Componon last year for $42.00 on E-bay. I purchased an adapter ring from B&H for $15.00 to mount the lens. The 50mm Schneider Componon is a smaller thread diameter and needs an adapter. The El Nikkor lenses should mount directly to your enlarger. Generally speaking 50mm is the standard for 35mm enlargers, but anywhere from 40 to 60 should work fine. You might also want to check the other photo.net forums for more advice on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 A 40mm focal length lens will give you the largest image, compared to a 50mm or 60mm (smallest image), but with some enlargers the shorter length may vignette (cut off) the corners of the image. It would be best to start with a 50mm lens. The Schneider lenses were made mostly in 25mm thread, sometimes called "Schneider thread". Just about every other make, and some Schneider lenses, have a 39mm Leica thread. A 25mm to 39mm adapter is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren_allen1 Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Not to start a range war over: "A Nikon is good, and the second-rank from the top brand companies" but many of the finest printers insist upon Nikkor 50mm 2.8 for it's contrast. I've found it has a bit more snap than the Schenieder or Rodenstocks I've used and noticably so. Perhaps the light source is to be considered but I've always been partial to the Nikkor 50mm and Leitz Focomat or Valoy combo. All a matter of style. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Try to find a Focotar-2. It out-performs any of the lenses discussed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahe_sahakian Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 "many of the finest printers insist upon Nikkor 50mm 2.8 for it's contrast. I've found it has a bit more snap than the Schenieder or Rodenstocks I've used and noticably so." I had both Nikkor 50mm 2.8 and the 63mm 3.5, I got rid of the 50mm and kept the 63mm, the 63mm is the sharpest enlarging lens compared to all current contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland_schmid Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Try to find a EL-Nikkor 2.8/63mm. It out-performs any of the lenses discussed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_jones4 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 I've never used the lens Roland refers to but my Leitz Focotar-2 easily outperformed my Rodagon 90/4 and my Nikkor 50 f2.8. You should be able to pick one up quite cheaply if you shop around. FWIW, in Barry Thornton's book "The Edge of Darkness" he tested numerous lenses and concluded that the Focotar-2 was the best in terms of edge-sharpness etc. (A good book to buy if you're interested in setting up enlargers correctly) I'm not familiar with your enlarger but it sounds to me like an economy version from what is a pretty decent manufacturer. In any case, you may wish to test the enlarger for correct alignment/evenness of light output too. It's fairly easy to mock-up a "neg" on a dtp programme with parrellel lines running vertically and horizontally to check that the projected image remains true (print out on acetate film/OHP sheet). If the enlarger is not set up correctly/true, whatever lens you use will give poor results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan_reynolds Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 I suspect from these answers that you are asking the question in the wrong PN forum. The focal length you need will depend on the length of your enlarger column, the size of photo you normally want to print, the largest photo you want to print, and even the enlarger condenser (if there is one). I'm afraid I know nothing about Durst enlargers, so I can't tell you. I use a (non-Apo)Rodagon lens (forget which, I'm in the office just now), and it is plenty good enough to demonstrate the difference between my Leica and Nikon negatives. I've never had a Nikon enlarger lens, but I've read some very negative comments about them. BTW, I think you are limiting yourself unnecessarily by choosing to print no larger than 8.5 x 11. You can hardly appreciate the benefits of your 50 Summicron at that size. [i expect this will spark off a lot of sarcasm from Leica-sceptics who follow this forum. I've come to the conclusion that they never print larger than 5 x 7, have defective eyesight or wobble their cameras.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 The Focotar-2 will outperform even the 63mm El-Nikkor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee_shively Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Too much hair-splitting going on here today. You said you were going to enlarge nothing over 8.5x11. At that size, you will not be able to tell a bit of difference between the El Nikkor 50/2.8, Schneider Componon-S 50/2.8 and the Leitz Focotar (I or II) 50/4.5. I've used all these lenses and I can't see any difference in the prints made up to 11x14. I currently have the older Focotar and a Nikkor and I use the Nikkor more because it's brighter. Get a used Nikkor, Schneider or Leitz and get the one that is in the best shape at the best price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerald_widen Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 I would recommend the El-Nikkor 50/2.8 (6 element). While it is not the very best it gives excellent results and is probably is the best bang for the buck. I am very happy with mine printing my Leica images.(On Topic) They can be had on ebay for around $50-60 with perfect glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Lee Shively , mar 01, 2004; 11:23 a.m. <i>Too much hair-splitting going on here today. You said you were going to enlarge nothing over 8.5x11. At that size, you will not be able to tell a bit of difference between the El Nikkor 50/2.8, Schneider Componon-S 50/2.8 and the Leitz Focotar (I or II) 50/4.5.</i><p> Hogwash. The qualities of the Focotar-2 include brilliance and tonal differentiation that other lenses cannot match. It has nothing to do with size, and everything to do with quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren_allen1 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Hmmmmm.... I'm a bit suprised here. While I'm a devout Leica enthusiast I've always heard that the Focotar 2 is over rated. I've not used one and am now tempted to give it a try. I have used the Nikkor, Schneider and Rodenstocks and found the Nikkor to be more contrasty and sharper giving a better performance on my Leitz enlargers. To be fair I compared lenses/prints done on Saunders VCCE ( sorry I forget the exact model but the 4x5 size-very good enlargers) and the Rodenstocks seemed to have the edge there. Evidently these lenses vary due to the light source. One good thing not mentioned is the fact the Nikkor lenses can be "clicked" around once focussed and bring the apeture scale to the front. Essential for the Leitz helical focus enlargers. I had older Shneiders and Rodenstocks and don't know if the current models have this ability. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas k. Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 That's what I am learning to love about Hans: he makes unqualified, sweeping statements without citing any evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p__2 Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 Just a quick note to thank all of you for taking time to reply...much apreciated... Felt like an idiot asking, especially such an off Leica topic issue, however this type of enlarger info is not in any of my books..did not know where else to go. Also, has anyone any experience using an old Leica screw mount lens on an enlarger? I have read of a fellow using a 5cm Elmar on his enlarger!? hah... At any rate, again, thanks! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland_schmid Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 The 63mm El-Nikkor will outperform even the Focotar-2... well, it is also a question of taste. I'm owning quite a lot of EL-lenses (including Focotar-2, a Focotar-3 prototype and a nameless Leitz 4/65mm prototype) and use all of them. All what I can say is that the El-Nikkor 63mm is the sharpest of them, the center/corner sharpness is absolutely identical and the contrast is the highest of all the lenses I own. The Leitz lenses show a nicer, more creamier tonality. So the general look of a print made with one of these Leica lenses is more charming. All the other Focotar lenses made for 35mm are much weakier performers (especially in the corners)and I would'nt recommend them at all. I think using old SM Leica lenses for enlarging isn't a good idea at all. For that purpose they were probably ok around 1950 or so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark-j Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 I tried using a 5cm collapsible Summicron on my Focomat. I had to have the lens in the collapsed position to use it due to the lens to negative distance. The lens is not a flat field lens and it had a LOT of field curvature. I do not recall which direction, but it was not acceptable. I was curious too. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p__2 Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 Thank you...ok, time to research and study in depth lenses... El Nikkor seems readily (and reasonably) available...will give the 63mm a shot as I am sure, like most of you, I will eventually possess many different enlarger lenses. ...and as I have found in the past that my preferences contradict others as those here do. Much I believe, like most things, is going to be subjective and lean towards personal preference. Nevertheless, all of you were tremendously helpful. The experience here is overwhelming.. Thanks for you patience regarding my inexperience here and a rather off Leica topic issue. Best,Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Roland said: 'The Leitz lenses show a nicer, more creamier tonality.' I have owned and used the 50mm El-Nikkor (first version). The Focotar-2 is sharper and has MUCH better tonality. There is no comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p__2 Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 One final thought... From my brief research online, and per responses here, I have read that the Nikkor gives (and/or is renown for) its contrast. Does not the Summicron already deliver this contrast? The "creamy" qualities described on the focotar sound interesting..this is probably complete ignorance, however, I would like to keep it in the family..I have always been pleased with Leica lens results..and am, I must admit, although completely ignorant here, obviously partial to things Leica... Then again, just as the filter glass is outsourced, so too may be the enlarger glass as it is not strictly part of Leica camera production..but I doubt this. I would very well blow up larger than 8.5 x 11 however, I am living a bit of a nomadic lifestyle and will not be doing so in the relatively near future...then again, who knows...I am very whimsical! H*ll, the answer is to buy both you will say! ....amazing how these things so seemingly simple become so complicated so quickly with photography, and also of course, having such high standards! Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland_schmid Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Hans said: "I have owned and used the 50mm El-Nikkor (first version)." Aha! You didn't try the El-Nikkor 63mm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 The Leica Focotar-2 is out of production. Plan on a search on e-bay, and expect to pay at least $300 USD. It blows the Nikkor away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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