patricks Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 I took deliver of that 'infamous' M7 today - and it has a patch flare galore! I mounted a 50mm lens and when the light hits about 45 degrees angle the opposite side of the patch turns fuzzy and kind of doubles! For some reason it is much more announced when the light is coming from the left. Serial # is 28841xx and it has a 0.85 vf. How the hell is this possible on a brand new camera!?!? Still it is brand new and the seller (US based) wants $1,600... Perhaps worth an "upgrade" but am I correct to understand that the upgrade is not the same as getting one of the late serial # M7s and MPs, which has a slightly different VF? Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerald_widen Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 I'm not experienced with the dreaded rangepatch flare but at the EXPO in NYC over the weekend I looked thru a new MP and saw what I guessed would be called flare. It was indoors and I found focusing to be impossible since there was no image in the patch. My M2 has a much, much better view/rangefinder. It is amazing how Leica still can't solve the problem. Can't they just talk apart an old M2/3/4 viewfinder and figure it out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricks Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 Just spoke to Leica in NJ. The VF upgrade is $262.50 and takes about 2 weeks, but they have no parts at this time. Dave Elwell is supposively the guy to talk to (I couldn't reach him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry_soletsky1 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 It is not fully clear when the upgrade in the M7 was done. According to "Leica Courier" it occurred at # 2885000, just a little higher than the camera you have. Maybe that's why it was so cheap. Both my M6s from 1985 and 1987 flared hugely and now are both flare free with the addition of the condensor lens in the finder. Apparantly the first fix for the M7 was some further coating of the finder. I tried two M7s of that vintage and both were quite bad. I'm still not totally sure that serial number above is when the new condensor lens was put into the finder. But the documentation above is all I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_hall1 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Obviously Solms have not used up the flaring finders in the parts bin. One member even just handled a flaring MP. See http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=006D27 http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=006PYp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolaresLarrave Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Is this an exclusive problem of the M7? At times my M6TTL has a weird lighting right on the patch and I have to move the camera to make focusing posible (meaning, make a panning motion, focus on something else). It's happened only a few times, not enough to make me too concerned... at least, not over the light leak it still has. Sorry about your dissapointing experience, Patrick. I feel your pain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_swanson Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 FWIW I shot a Barmitzvah this last weekend and I had alot of flare problems in the room I was in. No moving of my eye got rid of it as I think there were too many sources from both windows and hot spot lights from the DJ. And of course I completely forgot I had 2 of Lutzs' patchs in my bag to stick on. They may have helped but a forgot I had them. It would have been the ultimate test for a new MP vs the dreaded flare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry_soletsky1 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 all M6s and M6TTLs have this increased potential for flare. It all started with changes in the M4-2 finder during it's run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_. Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 I think I remember Marc Williams saying that of the 2 new M7's Leica swapped him for his old ones, one flared and that was the 0.85, as is Patricks. Could it be that a run of 0.85's got the old rangefinders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricks Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 Yes, I remember Marc's comments, but I had no idea that it was this bad. Under an extreme situation when I held it up against a rather unflattered ceiling light here in the office (perhaps not a realistic every day photographic situation) it complete whited-out and it was impossible to focus/see through it. All this from a company with 50+ years experience of making rangefinders and that are selling this product for over $2,500 to unsuspecting consumers. I was prepared that there might be some issues but I had no idea that it was this bad. By far the worst of the 2 M3s and 3 M6 TTLs I've owned (one of them was a 0.85 and it wasn't anywhere near this bad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_abbott2 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Just wondering, does the so-called "flare" show up in the final printed photographs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricks Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 no, no flare in the printed photo since the problem is with viewfinder/focusing mechansim, not the lens per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerald_widen Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Not true, flare can show up in the printed photo as a shot that wasn't focused properly. Or it can not show up in the photo that was never taken because the photographer couldn't focus in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 The .085 in question had a serial Number under the so called switch over point. The .072 I got had a serial number over the switch over. I used it this weekend in horriblespotlight conditions at the end of the NY Marathon (meeting my wife at the family gathering section at dusk). Zero flare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricks Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 So can one possible conclude that the .85 vf is more prone to flare when it comes to the focusing patch? Well, well, I'll inspect it more closely tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy. Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Hi Patrick, I am on the road at this moment so I can't answer your question in detail. I have gone thru what you've just been thru, and it seems like you should pick up the "Chrome" body instead of the black ones. My new 0.72 chrome which is traveling with me at this moment has no flare - can't induce it. Don't ask me why but it's true. Sorry, but have to hurry along...good luck. from Hong Kong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_boyle3 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Patrick, why not just look for an M2 in very good condition and get rid of your other Leicas. It would put an end to your flare problems once and for all and leave you with a camera you can use till the end of your days. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricks Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 John et al,I've tried the M3 road and as much as I liked that VF, I really prefer the build in meter for my type of photography, ergo everything earlier than M6 is out the window. And also, after some reflecting I realize that I prefer having doing the aperture priority shooting with a fully manual option. Cheers, Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 My MP is a 0.85. Zero flare. It is what I tested the 2 new M7s against when I got them. The M7 0.72 performed identical to the MP 0.85. The M7 0.85 did not. Again, the M7 0.85's serial number was under the switch over number. I sent it back to get what I paid for. I have yet to receive the replacement for it...and I have a *@#@* wedding this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_ting2 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Hey Sandy, maybe we can meet up. I'm in Hong Kong on biz too. Email me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolaresLarrave Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Well, mine is a M6TTL, 0.72... BTW: chrome body. Not a terrible problem yet. Patrick, ever contemplated the MP? It's metered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricks Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 Marc, if what I was told today by Leica NJ that there are no parts available in the US at this time, I'm afraid you won't get your .85 M7 back anytime soon. You might want to give them a call tomorrow... Francisco, MP is a great camera, but I would prefer a M7 w/ the AE function. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Patrick, I think the answer to your question about whether getting the M7 upgraded depends on whether they started coating all the finder windows and other glass from the beginning, or only began that at the same time as they began the upgrade. What I'm saying is that to get the full benefit of all improvements, you need both the improved finder assembly, and the coated windows, which is a thing they only began recently, with the M7 and MP. I think the flare gets worse as magnification increases. I can see it with my .72 M6, but not in my .58. I think it's at its worst with the 0.85. So, who knows whether they started coating the windows from the first M? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerry_szarek Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Marc, the Hexar RF is still available to borrow for the price of Fedex and insurance to and from your location. Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_ting2 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 The MP does not flare. The bright frame outlines as well as the center patch is dimmer. Looking at the viewfinder from the front as well as from the back of the eyepiece, one can distinctive tell there's a bluish coating. My M6 flares and in the right angle from a light source, the center flare results in total whiteout. The MP regardless of how I tried to recreate the condition, it just does not flare. I think its worth the upgrade because I've had flare instances that I missed the "decisive moment" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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