Nikon should make every camera body able to meter with AIS lens

[gilbert_c1]

Why nikon should make every camera body able to meter with AIS lens?

 

Because, if using an mount-adaptor, every Canon EOS body can use and

meter with the following lens:

 

EOS can use and meter with Zeiss CY-mount lens, via an adaptor.

EOS can use and meter with Leica-R lens, via an adaptor.

EOS can use and meter with Nikkor F-mount non-G lens, via an adaptor.

 

Such adaptor is availble in China for around 500RMB each, made of

copper without glass.

 

Isnt it a big joke that EOS body can meter with AIS lens while some

Nikon body can't?

 

I know that there's registration-distance issue so I do not expect

nikon body to be able to take ZeissCY or LeicaR lens, but at least I

do think Nikon should make every camera body able to meter with AIS

lens, at least in center-weighted and spot mode.

 

I truly hope Nikon guys make it on the successor of D100.

Or in the comsumer market, do Nikon guys wish people to buy a next

generation 10D to use AIS lens istead of D100?

[Robert_Lai]

The harsh reality is that Nikon doesn't make any money if you don't buy a new lens and keep using the AI/AIS lenses. This whole business is a not too subtle way of forcing buyers to get the latest lenses and cameras, or buy something like the F5, which has total backwards compatibility.<p>I personally refuse to play their game. Many great old cameras are to be had on the used market, as well as used AI/AIS lenses. These old metal bodied cameras and lenses seem to last forever with a reasonable amount of maintenence. Nikon seems to have learned their lesson, and now make everything out of plastic if they can do it. Once the plastic wonders break, the purchaser has no recourse but to buy another replacement - to the joy of Nikon's bottom line.

[ellis_vener_photography]

The D2H will let you use AI-S lens with full metering capabilities (except the 3D

version of Matrix metering).

[gilbert_c1]

Yeah it looks to me that for limited-budget AIS lens users, buying a 10D is a better choice than buying a D100 now, as long as you have friend or time to get an adaptor in China.

[lachaine]

At least they can be mounted and used. Get a separate lightmeter if it's so important to you. There's no law that says you have to meter with the camera. In fact, many times, it's more convenient to do it with a standalone meter anyway. It can even be fun guesstimating exposure with no meter at all. I don't understand why so many people so often post about this lack of metering ability with non AF lenses.

[jonathan_ratzlaff]

I have seen the result of stop down metering on some of the EOS moount cameras. I am not sure if a three or four stop underexposure constitutes compatibility. This was with an elan7 and FD lens.

[gilbert_c1]

I use Minolta IV F meter pretty often and I am happy with it. But I take this metering issue on comsumer body as a fun topic to play with. Of course for users who consumes films heavily it's 100% worth it to buy a D2H and it's truly a gorgeous camera to have. But the fact is that most camera users can live with a D100/10D grade camera and wont spend that much on a camera body. If comparing cost, chipping a lens is already a lot more expensive than using a 500RMB adaptor, let alone chipping every lens. Sure using a stand-alone meter is fine like I am using a Minolta IV F but isnt it great if having the option that not needing a light meter? And what's ironic is that in a cost of only 500RMB Canon body can use and meter with Nikon lens while Nikon body can't.

[ebogaerts]

Pierre,

 

I think because people have come to expect continued backwards compatibility with their camera bodies. I know a lot of shooters who bought into Nikon on this reason alone. Nikon ditching AI function on a lot of their newest cameras (with the exception of their most expensive models & the digital ones) IS just Nikon making users of those camera bodies use autofocus lenses, or be forced into losing all metering compatibility with their non autofocus lenses.

 

I am more or less in the market for getting an autofocus body to use when I need autofocus. I really wanted to get a newer model, one with a warranty, ect. However, I don't feel like spending $1,000 US or more to be given the "privlage" to be able to meter with the manual focus lenses in my bag.

 

In any case, as I mentioned before - I had a lot of respect for Nikon keeping a policy of backwards compatibility. Nikon leaving that policy has everything to do with wanting to increase their "bottom line", (IMO) nothing more nothing less.

 

I didn't buy into the Nikon system, knowing that one day soon I would have to use a handheld meter if I wanted to use my manual focus lenses. (IMO) it is just not excusable.

 

...And I don't think it costs THAT much money in manufacturing to put an AI prong on their cameras. Nikon did it before, and made their camera bodies affordable.

[neil_parker]

To tell you the truth I have been seriously thinking about using an EOS 10D w/ an adapter and my AIS lenses.

 

Here is why;

 

The 10D has excellent low light capabilities, I shoot quite a few concerts, using Fuji 800 print film. Supposedly the 10D does quite well at 1600.

 

It would stop-down meter with my AIS lenses, a D100 will not meter at all with AIS. At shows I mostly use my lenses wide-open anyway!

 

And here's the kicker; a 50 f1.4 will become the functional equivalent of an 80 f1.4. (Unfortunately that makes my 85, 105 & 180 less useful in some ways, but that would be true on any sub-frame DSLR).

 

I realize a D-2H(x) would be a much more satisfactory solution, but its not in the budget. Otherwise I might just be able to cost justify a 10D when they go below 1K. I do a number of paying jobs covering various events, and the Canon would be very helpful for that work. Of course that would probably be the beginning of a protracted migration to Digital Canon.

[hugh_t]

I am so sick of posts whining about G lenses and why AI & AIS lenses dont matrix meter with new bodies. Enough already go take some pictures. P.S. the lenses from the Nikon rangefinders won't work with the new bodies either.

[gary_frost1]

A lens without an aperture ring is like a....

 

next it will be the focus ring.

[ebogaerts]

"A lens without an aperture ring is like a....

 

next it will be the focus ring.

 

-- Gary Frost , August 19, 2003; 05:47 P.M. Eastern "

 

You know, I would not be suprised in any way whatsoever if that starts to happen.

 

And then you'll get people defending the decision, saying it's just "too costly" for Nikon to put focusing rings onto their lenses..

[markci]

Yes, they should. But they won't.

[david_h._hartman]

Because Canon makes so many "economy" cameras and lenses Nikon feels it has to do the same. People often keep buying the same brand of camera when the buy new and the more bodies out there the more lenses a company can potentially sell.

 

Another problem is the number of people who actually want the feature. I believe more discriminating photographers are most likely to use a mix of AF and MF lenses. I wish the N80 had this feature. Not for myself but for the those photographers who want it. The price of an N80 currently is $349.95 with a $50.00 rebate (usd). That�s just 299.95.

 

According to the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis if I spent $190.00 dollars on a Nikkormat FTn in 1970 that camera should cost 899.07 in 2003. Today�s price for a Nikon F100 after a $100.00 dollar rebate is $889.95. The Nikon F100 is today�s Nikkormat.

 

Both of these camera are truly bargains. If one can possibly save and sacrifice the F100 is the best entry level camera for one who is truly serious and just as the Nikkormat FTn was fully serviceable for tough professional use so is the F100.

 

It�s not without feeling that I say Nikon feels an aperture compiling lever on an N80/F80 body is to labor intensive and costly to install on a camera where few will use this feature. Considering the price of the N80 and that its interface is much like the F100 and F5 it�s a considerable bargain. Working in reverse an N80 that cost 299.95 today would have cost only $63.39 in 1970, perhaps the price of a better Kodak Instamatic.

 

It�s often said a camera is just a box. The F100 is a better box. If at all possible buy an F100 and enjoy the extra performance and true features.

 

Regards,

 

Dave.

 

PS: I do have a boat load of complaints regarding Nikon that touch on this topic. I think I�ll be back. Right now I don�t have the time.

[chuck]

"Isnt it a big joke that EOS body can meter with AIS lens while some Nikon body can't?"<p>

It is indeed. <p>

"I truly hope Nikon guys make it on the successor of D100. Or in the comsumer market, do Nikon guys wish people to buy a next generation 10D to use AIS lens istead of D100"<p>

I doubt it will make it into the D200. Gilbert C aside, It seems unlikely that significant portion of consumer market will make its DSLR choice based on compatibility with AIS.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"A lens without an aperture ring is like a.... next

it will be the focus ring." --Gary Frost<br>

</em><br>

Oh Lord, dont even think such a heinous thought much less

put it in writing.

[dj_soroka]

I've always maintained that the thought of your initial post should be standard operating procedure at Nikon.

 

However, realize that the reason that it isn't is not technical, but a "sales" decision.

 

On two separate occasions, long time Nikon employees (20+ years service) have stated to me that Nikon thought that it could sell more lenses simply by deactivating the matrix metering feature with older (and quite usable) manual focus lenses. Of course, the contradiction is that Nikon still sells manaul focus lenses and lists them in on their Japanese website.

 

Similarly, program mode and shutter priority mode are not accessible with manual focus lenses, for a reason that the technical folks could overcome in a day, if the sales folks at Nikon would let them.

 

As far as the strategy "to get folks to upgrade their lenses", it also tends to get folks to upgrade to Canon or something else.

 

Big loyalty issue here on compatibility.

 

I can understand the sales force wanting to increase sales, but Nikon is spitting on their customers at the same time.

[paul_dibiase3]

Nikon makes plenty of bodies that meter with the older lenses. I understand the new D2h has this capability. Am I wrong? Backward compatiblity is becoming less and less important as change sweeps through the camera marekt. This may be sad and unfortunate, but it is also true.

[ky2]

I didnt knew this Canon<>Nikon adaptor exists. Does it also work with AI lens too? Do any of you have any information or solid reviews?

[michael_devoue]

I like the inflation issue, David, interesting point! O/W there are many valid points, but we live in a world where we often have to choose between two evils. There are other choices, as well, but come on, let's talk reality. I like being able to use a mechanical camera here in alaska. I just prefer to avoid batteries in these conditions, and Nikon allows this. Nikon's 180 isn't available in an Canon mount, and believe me, I tried Canon's 200's. Nikon's 180 is head and shoulders above the (affordable) Canon 200's. Solve those two issues and I'll think about Canon.

 

Yes, I would like to see all bodies meter(matrix incl.) with AIS lenses. Yes, G lenses make it seem Nikon is stepping back off their total compatibility stance, but they still have one foot on it with their pro stuff. I believe that Nikon is a more comprehensive system, so I chose it. The lesser of two evils, right?

[ebogaerts]

"It�s not without feeling that I say Nikon feels an aperture compiling lever on an N80/F80 body is to labor intensive and costly to install on a camera where few will use this feature."

 

Well, this is how Nikon feels, but they may have had another sale of that camera (from me) if they had decided to include an aperture coupling lever. Sure - I wouldn't go and replace all my manual focus lenses with autofocus versions, but I may have been interested in perhaps purchasing one.

 

What is so costly or labor-intensive about an AI prong? Why wasn't it too costly or labor-intensive before? It's a recent market decision from Nikon, and I believe it has nothing to do with how expensive it would be to add one.

 

What about those of us who don't have the finances (or feel like "financing") to throw a grand at a camera? The only other thing to do is to go used, which is what Nikon (I'm sure) doesn't want.

 

-------

 

"As far as the strategy 'to get folks to upgrade their lenses', it also tends to get folks to upgrade to Canon or something else."

 

Yes - I imagine there have been a lot of (now former) Nikon customers who did just that.

 

"Big loyalty issue here on compatibility."

 

IMO, Nikon was 'famous' for having compatibility with all their SLR lenses & cameras. They've left that policy in the dust. I wonder how many new cameras & lenses they have sold, versus the cameras & lenses that they would've sold had they not made this decision.

 

"I can understand the sales force wanting to increase sales, but Nikon is spitting on their customers at the same time."

 

Yes they are.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"What is so costly or labor-intensive about an AI

prong? Why wasn't it too costly or labor-intensive before? It's a

recent market decision from Nikon, and I believe it has nothing

to do with how expensive it would be to add one." -- Eric

Bogaerts<br>

</em><br>

Yes and why cant I buy Classic Coke? Not the stuff in US

groceries stores made with High Fructose Corn Slime but the Coca-Cola

of my youth. The Coca-Cola made with Pure Cane Sugar from Hawaii.

"The Real Thing" not this bogus and bland concoction. I

want the bite of the old "Battery Acid." The company

saves perhaps as much as half a cent per can and the typical

customer doesnt complain, perhaps doesnt even know

the difference (Customer Apathy).<br>

<br>

Ive been asked why I show up to these threads with my

comments and why they are so often the same. I didnt give

my favorite statement yet so here it is All G lenses arent

crap but all G lenses SUCK!<br>

<br>

I believe Nikons accommodation of manual focus lenses such

as AI and AIS lens in the Nikon D2h is a direct result of

complaints they have received. Perhaps Nikon is mindful of PHOTO.NET

and the discussions here. If Nikons decisions are based on

something better than a Committee of a Thousand Moneys the

successor to the D100 will accommodate manual focus Nikkors. A

cousin is considering selling a mint Nikon FE and six fine AI and

AIS Nikkors to buy a Canon 10D and one all-in-wonder zoom. If the

D100 accepted AI and AIS lenses with at least center weighted

metering hed have a D100 now.<br>

<br>

My favorite current Nikon cameras are the F5 and FM3a. I dont

own any FM3a but I do own FE2(s) and an F5. I logically want to

use the same lenses on both cameras. Sometimes I want to carry

both cameras at once. Most of my lenses are AI and AIS (20 plus).

Ive been collecting these since 1978. I have 6 AF and AF-D

lenses. Of these 4 are very useable as manual focus lenses on my

FE2(s) and FM2n(s). I started in the Nikon system in 1970.<br>

<br>

I have a very reasonable interest in Nikon keeping its promise of

compatibly. Yes they made such a promise. I dont think the

bothered to disclaim it in there oldest ads. I know ads are full

of lies and half truths but its in Nikons best

interest treat its customers honestly and with respect. <br>

<br>

<em>"They've left that policy in the dust." --Eric

Bogaerts<br>

</em><br>

I dont think Nikon has quite left their compatibility

policy in the dust but I think they are testing the market.

Sometimes I think they just wet their finger in their mouth and

hold it up to the wind. <br>

<br>

Well its midnight and I have to work tomorrow.<br>

<br>

Cheers!

[david_h._hartman]

For you PC types the "Thousand Monkeys" reference is to the theory that a thousand moneys with a thousand typewriters could produce the works of Shakespeare. You just cost me 10 minutes sleep!

[bobar57]

"Yes and why can�t I buy Classic Coke? Not the stuff in US groceries stores made with High Fructose Corn Slime but the Coca-Cola of my youth. The Coca-Cola made with Pure Cane Sugar from Hawaii. "The Real Thing"

 

David, most of that pure cane sugar came from Cuba... ;)

[mikko_kalavainen]

So, you guys really think that there's not going to be support for my nikkors for under 4500 bucks in the digital realm in the future?

 

Byebye Nikon then, welcome Canon. I have to buy new optics anyway,

so...

 

The 10D even at these prices is looking very sweet indeed... When will Nikon retaliate? Or just get even? 1Ds, 10D, 300D. That's a lot of ground to cover.

 

I guess I'll wait for a while. Parting with my 55/3.5 micro and the 105mm just feels too bad.