ray_lau1 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Is there a optimum aperture for each leica M lens. I do believe each aperture would be a workable aperture. However, should it has the best one with excellent performance. I would like to ask which step would be the best for 50mm F.135mm F2.075mm F1.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_amiet2 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Ray, Do you mean optimum for definition, optimum for DOF, or optimum for some other factor. My point is, I don't believe your question has a simple answer. Only an answer for a given set of parameters, and even then, I suggest personal preference will come into anyway. Go take pictures. Then LOOK at them. You will see the answer much better! :-) Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl_heinz_strohmeier Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Ray, concret example: 100 asa slide, 35mm f/2, street photography at twilight, the meter reads 1/15s at f/2. Will you really consider and pay attention to the might be better f/4 of your lets say pre-asph. lens and thus choose the 1/4s? Yes? OK then, you'll have a slide with a somewhat higher resolution. Theoretically. Why? Because you'll have missed the shot. Please read between the lines and take pictures. Best regards, Karl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschweigl Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Apart from what has been said before you might find some info here: <a href="http://www.leica-camera.com/imperia/md/content/pdf/msystem/49.pdf">Leica M Lenses by Erwin Puts</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_ting2 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Just to generalize, typically all the pre-ASPH lens have the best performance in the middle apertures. The extremes as in wide-open or completely closed down will degrade the quality. That's why now we have the ASPH, which is claimed to be better. However, in real world I find it hard to justify in terms of price vs performance factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_amiet2 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Henry, I read what you say above, but, that assumes one consider "technical" performance as the optimum. I for one, frequently consider "aesthetic" performance as optimum, thereby needing quite different qualities from a lens. My point being, there is no such thing as "the best lens", only the "the best lens for a given task". Endeavouring to specify beyond this I reckon is futile, IMHO. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Henry: You said, "That's why now we have the ASPH, which is claimed to be better. However, in real world I find it hard to justify in terms of price vs performance factor." In the case of the 35mm Summicron ASPH, I agree. There are some exceptions, though, to what you said. The 35mm Summilux ASPH is light-years ahead of the pre-ASPH when used wide-open. And the 28mm Summicron beats all versions of the 28mm Elmarit, when used at f/2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_fang Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 This is a premium example of a question that serves no useful purpose. The optimum aperture for any given lens is the one that you need to use to take the picture you want to take. Where's PK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl_heinz_strohmeier Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Rob, you stated: "...And the 28mm Summicron beats all versions of the 28mm Elmarit, when used at f/2!" Hmm, the Elmarit f/2,8 is just no Summicron f/2 ;-) Best regards, Karl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perry Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 As stated above the best aperture is the one needed to get the desired affect but from a purely technical point of view I would say that as a general rule most "M" lenses are at their best stopped down 2 or 3 stops. At these apertues in most cases vignetting is eliminated or at least well controlled, contrast and resolution is at it's best and extended well to the corners, coma and barrel distortion are at their minimum or non existent, etc. By f8 and beyond resolution begins to deteriorate, contrast is lessened, etc. If the highest technical performance is the only consideration an aperture of f5.6 should not be to far off the "sweet spot" of most lenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 From a purely techncal point of view, what you should do is to test seveeral lenses ofthe same type and model, at all apertures and then choosethe one that works best and make notes about the performance at various apertures. This is known as "cherry picking" and is what a lot of professionals do. I a mnot saying that a photographer might own 2 or three 35mm f/2 Summicrons , with different best apertures, butthat they will test several 35mm f/2 Summicrons and then choose the one that performs best, and they will have notes about which aperture gives the highest resolution, and when they have the luxury of using that aperture will do so.<P>A general rule of thumb is that all lenses regardless of manufacturer tend to technically (resolution, MTF and contrast) perform best about 2 stops down from wide open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art waldschmidt Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Maybe in reality (considering that tripods ,it seems, are anathema to classic *Leica practice*), the optimum aperture (for sharpness) will likely be the one that overcomes the photographer's shake/unsteadiness ... of course that's a different *number* for everyone. (It's always seemed, that regardless of all the niceties of optical considerations, the big leveler is camera motion!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_ting2 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 "This is a premium example of a question that serves no useful purpose. The optimum aperture for any given lens is the one that you need to use to take the picture you want to take. Where's PK?" Al, please re-read the original question from the poster : "Is there an optimum aperture for each leica M lens. I do believe each aperture would be a workable aperture. However, should it has the best one with excellent performance. " I couldn't possibly misinterpret the question in what the poster wants to know. How in the world there were such diverse answers from this board ranging from philosophy , to art, to anything other than a simple answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Based on my limited Leica experience with one camera and one 50mm Summicron lens I would say that it doesn't matter. Performance ranges from excellent to supurb no matter what aperature you use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_. Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 <<Is there a optimum aperture for each leica M lens>> Yes, it's the one you need to get the DOF or the shutter speed you need to make the shot work. One more reason why the M7 with AE lock is my favorite, as it lets me pick an aperture and not have to vary it a 1/2 stop up or down because of the full-stop shutter speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Jay, do you honestly think that we could see the difference in sharpness between f/4.8 and f/5.6 using Tri-X behind, say, a second generation 50mm Summicron, hand-held at 1/30 second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainer_viertlb_ck Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 hi ellis.. is this really what professionals do? to rent a.e. 20 leica lenses of the same type and select the best?well,- i dont know any prof. including me who has enough time to waist it in such a funny way.......would be interesting if some are here who are doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk_thompson Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Ray seems to want a more definite answer than we can give him, but we can still offer some help: He's asking, I assume, about sharpness in circumstances where he has a wide choice of aperture & shutter settings & is not primarily concerned about DOF. Besides the Erwin Puts site, consult www.photodo.com, under "Products," for Leica lens tests (& many others) using the equipment at the Hasselblad factory. We're given no serial numbers or ages for the lenses tested, and N is presumably 1, so the results must be taken with several grains of salt. Nevertheless you can get general ideas from Puts & Photodo about which lenses are more useful wide open, & which must be stopped down to f4 or f8. Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 The Noctilux has its highest sharpness at about F5.6 ; but at this aperture; most all modern 50mm lenses work real well thus the question is abit goofy; in the sense because what optimum are you asking about????????..............If I is was to use my Noct at f5.6 all the time; I might as well use the slightly better Summicron @F5.6 ; which costs way less; and weighs ALOT less too......................................................................This is like asking where modern cars get their best gas mileage; at constant speed; on a long drive............It is usually about 40 to 45 MPH........; but almost nobody goes that slow; steady state at that speed on a freeway; plus many states have a 45 MPH minumum speed on highways.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray_lau1 Posted July 9, 2003 Author Share Posted July 9, 2003 To my astonishment, I got so many replies. My expected answer would be closed to Perry's one. I only focus on optical performance, not for shutter speed combinations. Thus I may search for MTF for each lens. Thank you so much for all of you. Best wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_fang Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 <b>"Al, please re-read the original question from the poster :"</b> <p>Why? <p><b>"I couldn't possibly misinterpret the question in what the poster wants to know. How in the world there were such diverse answers from this board ranging from philosophy , to art, to anything other than a simple answer."</b> <p>I don't think I so much misinterpreted it as I did take it as a stupid question. Read Jay's response for an elaboration on my answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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