fino Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 In a few weeks, I will be travelling to Northern Spain [Llanes, Huesca, Barcelona and Madrid]. All I know is B+W photography and have little experience with colour. I've seen some nice heavily saturated colour photos around recently taken with velvia 50 and think I'll take some of the stuff with me [i dont think the 100 version will be available in my area in time] In case it matters, I use a 500cm/PME45 with 40/80/150 lenses and Lee ND Grads and a Lee Linear Polariser. I'm interested in peoples views on rating the film, metering and bracketing, best times of the day, altitude problems and basically anything else of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediumformat Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Definitely bracket, because you really won't be sure which exposure you prefer until you see the results. If you have a chance to experiment before going on your trip I would do so. Everyone seems to rate Velvia differently, and it all depends on your own aesthetic. You can give the film more exposure and less development by downrating the film to 32 iso, or uprate it to 64 and give less exposure but a bit more development. I shoot it right at 50 in medium format Rolleiflex, and that's my preferred rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_lupin Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 I agree with RJ. Definitely shoot a roll or two before you go - I did that last year before a major holiday using slide for the first time. You'll want a good light meter if your camera doesn't have an in built spot meter as you'll get little margin for error. Its a beautifully saturated film and people rate it at 32 or 40 actually to desaturate it a little whilst maintaining the finest grain available in a film. Personally I stick to ISO 50. Careful with the polariser - you can over do it but done right the effects are wonderful. Its a beautiful emulsion. Chances are you'll never look back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbq Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 As others said, be sure to shoot some test rolls before you go, to get used to it, and to have proper metering equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 The best advice anyone can give you isto test some film before you go. A lot of people prefer RVP50 (the original ISO 50 version of Velvia) rated at an E.I of 40 instead of 50, but this really will depend on your meter, and your lab and to some degree your personal taste. You won't have 'altitude problems' (not sure what you mean by that really) with RVP. it can be hard on skin tones especially subnburned skin tones,, otherthan that I think you'll like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrumohr Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 I think the altitude problem F Kennedy is referring to is the stronger UV and bluer light at higher altitude. Need to bring a color meter. Bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_henderson Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Agree with all he above. One note of caution. You won't be allowed to use a tripod in or on top of the Gaudi "modernist" buildings in Barcelona. Even on the roof of La Pedrera (Casa Mila) you won't get a tripod up there and the best colours by far are in the hour before sunset. You may also want to polarise. You might need to use something faster to make all this comfortable, and as there is likely to be plenty of saturation anyway you could consider a few rolls of Provia 100F (if necessary rated at 160 for a one-stop push). There's a couple of examples on www.photography001.com in the European Landscapes gallery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guytal Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Velvia 50 is a great film for a limited number of situations (more on that below). I would not recommend it as an "all around" film. I suggest you supplement it with at least one more emulsion. Velvia's strengths/weaknesses are its saturated color and high contrast which are great for some things but can be inappropriate in others. As such, the second film should probably be less saturated. I would recommend either Astia or Provia F. <br><br> My general rules of thumb:<br> * Low contrast scene (pre dawn, late evening, shaded): use Velvia<br> * Anything with people in it that requires good rendition of skin tones - use Astia or Provia<br> * Very high contrast scenes (deep shadows, bright highlights) - use Astia or Provia<br> * Long exposures (more than 8-10 seconds) - use Provia <br><br> etc. <br><br> I would also suggest you use warming (81A or 81B) filters over Provia in shaded areas.<br> <br><br> Altitude will likely not be a problem unless you head up into the Pyrenees. Be careful with your use of polarizers in high elevations - the effect is much more pronounced and with a wide lens can appear very uneven.<br> Also note that Velvia tends to really punch up blue skies so you may want to avoid polarizers altogether if you have a lot of plain sky in the frame.<br> Can't say much about the new Velvia 100F. I only started testing it this past weekend. <br><br> Guy<br> <a href="http://scenicwild.com">Scenic Wild</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_walton2 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Vevia is a very nice film but as stated, test before you go and that means on all your lens. Your 150mm may be off by a half a stop so to keep from having any surprises test and bracket your good exposures when your on your trip anyway! A safe thing would be to have a quick "bench test" to see if all your lens are the same and the shutter speeds are true. Chrome film is unforgiving. This is a good way to see that your meter is true also. Get a roll off to your trusted lab toot sweet and tell them that your testing. They may even give you a clip test! Talk to them after looking at the chromes. A good pro lab will work with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_piper2 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 1) I love Velvia 2) Definitely use strong UV-Haze-1 filters - not just lens-protector "UV" filters. Velvia is quite sensitive to UV and will turn clouds magenta at the drop of a UV ray. Esp. if you get up into the highlands. The Haze-1s (or Haze-2s if you can find them) will cut 80-90% of the UV, while 'plain' UVs cut 40% or so. 3) Velvia will often make blue skies nearly black even without a polarizer/grad filter. If you use filters, make at least one bracket without the filter - you'll be surprised how dark a sky Velvia can produce on its own, especially with the 40mm. 4) Avoid shooting in direct sun in the six hours around noon - the light just isn't as pretty, regardless of film. You may want to take an 81a filter for shooting in open shade or under clouds. Velvia will emphasize the blue shadows, esp. say if you're shooting in a nice whitewashed European village. 5) metering/iso depends a lot on your meter - but it is more likely that you'll want to shoot at EI 40 or 32 than at 64 or 80. My 'basic' exposure in mid-afternoon sunlight with Leicas on Velvia is 1/250 @ f/6.8 (between 5.6 and 8) so the 'sunny sixteen' rule implies EI 40. Velvia is so saturated that you don't need to underexpose to get strong colors - you'll just get inky shadows. (of course, in some shots you may WANT inky shadows!). As with all slide films - if in doubt, meter for bright areas (say that whitewashed wall) and then open up about 3 stops. If you blow out the whites you are stuck with blank film, but can often suck some detail out of the shadows in a darker shot. 6) See if you can track down either of David Alan Harvey's books on Latin America/spanish culture ("Cuba" and "Divided Soul") for a good look at how Velvia reacts in the hands of a master in a variety of lighting/settings. Once you see what he's getting you'll have a good idea of Velvia's strengths and weaknesses. 7) Finally - Velvia CAN produce nice skin tones if the light and exposure are right - it really brings out the apples/freckles in kids cheeks, etc. In Spain I'd think you'll get a big variety of skin colors: tanned tourists may look 'tan-dooried', but other skin colors can look very pretty on V. Again see Harvey's books for a nice compilation(sp?) of skin colors (EuroIberian/Afric/Indian mixes of all types) in various lights and how Velvia handles them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavin martin Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Don't get bogged down in all the detail & advice. Velvia works just fine rated at 50. The colours will be very strong & the detail pin sharp. It's always worth bracketing a good shot just to be sure. A decent light meter should be a part of your kit as standard I would imagine. Don't underestimate how much you may need to rely on a tripod using a 50 film. Finally, for those times when ISO 50 just wont cut it, use Provia 100 or 400. I'm a B+W man myself & have a 500CM & keep a CF 80mm T* as my standard lens . . I do believe though that some things just have to be seen in colour. Using Velvia with your kit, the colour & detail will make you grin from ear to ear. Most of all, don't forget to enjoy yourself. Happy trails Gavin www.urban-landscapes.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoresteen Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Take a monopod that looks like a hiking stick. Last year in Spain I couldn't use my tripod at most sights but they let people use monopods. A British chap I met told me he had been using the monopod for years. He also carried a small tabletop tripod that he would use to brace his camera on benches, tables ect. Next time I'll know better. I was able to get 2 hour E6 processing in Madrid and I love the Velvia my wife took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_wilson2 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Basically agree with testing, bracketing and with taking more than one film, especially if you have more than one back with you. Be warned, there is an anti-Velvia league, as it not to everyone�s taste. It is slow, hence is not a general purpose film. Provia is excellent for its extra stop and its exceptional long exposure performance (mind you I think Velvia does a bit better than Fuji say, but that is understandable conservatism on their part). Provia does not have the saturated Velvia palette, but it is not far off. It is very fine grained and for MF any difference between Velvia and Provia is not relevant (many say that Provia is finer anyway). Velvia can get too bright (not as bad as the �Fuji blues� of the older films). Hence some rate it lower, but I just meter accordingly. Velvia is great in overcast as it punches the colours. Use a skylight (or UV-haze) in the sun as a minimum and try an 81A in the shade. Filtering advice above is good. I think that Guy Tal got the situations pretty accurately for Velvia, although Provia can be great in overcast forests etc with a bit of warming. Velvia can be alright for portraits, but it seems if there is any red in the light or subject then it blows out. Not a patch on Astia or another �portrait� film though. Can�t say about Velvia 100 as I have plenty of Provia to get through and I use Velvia 50 anyway a lot. I am not pining for the extra saturation (the Velvia look) in 100, but I will try some soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 <p><i> Provia does not have the saturated Velvia palette, but it is not far off. It is very fine grained and for MF any difference between Velvia and Provia is not relevant (many say that Provia is finer anyway).</i></p> <p>Provia has an RMS granularity index of 8, while Velvia 50 an index of 9. On an MF tranny can you tell the difference in most applications? i don't know. Astia has an index of 6 or 7: it's an amazingly fine film.</p> <p>Everyone's advice has been excellent, especially about shooting some test rolls. I would not recommend Velvia 50 as your first color transparency film, however. It can be finicky, and a "couple of test rolls" may not be enough.</p> <p>Velvia 100F may indeed be available by the time you leave: I've seen it in various places in Boston, and you can always order from B&H.</p> <p>Bring a faster film with you: Provia 400F is a good choice, if you want chromes. And don't forget your B&W!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_cummings Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Tested Velvia 100. Dmax 3.~5: ie poor blacks. Stick w/the 50(40) for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fino Posted July 8, 2003 Author Share Posted July 8, 2003 <body> <p>Thanks for all the replies.<br> <br> <i>R.J. Fox <br> Neil Lupin <br> Paul Rumohr <br> Jean-Baptiste Queru<br> Ellis Vener<br> Scott Walton</i><br> - I've ordered the film today so I'll get some test rolls done as advised and try one at 50 and another at 40 with and without the polariser.<br> <br> <i>David Henderson<br> Anthony Oresteen </i><br> - Tripod advice noted, thanks <br> <br> <i>Guy Tal</i><br> - Very useful info, thanks<br> [Nice website and photos too]<br> <br> <i>Andy Piper<br> Nick Wilson</i><br> - Very useful info, thanks<br> <br> <i>Gavin Martin</i><br> - Firstly, I love your website and photos, FirstClass! Secondly, thanks for the advice.<br> <br> <i>Tom Emerson</i>.<br> Thanks for advice, but I'll take a chance on it. B+W is my main film, If I blow the Velvia, it wont be the end of the world.<br> </p> </body> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 <p><i>Tested Velvia 100. Dmax 3.~5: ie poor blacks. Stick w/the 50(40) for now...</i></p> <p>Velvia 100 or 100F?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_piper2 Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Just to clarify - there is ONLY one ISO 100 Velvia - Velvia 100F. If someone leaves off the "F" and calls it Velvia 100 as shorthand, it's still the same film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 <p><i>Just to clarify - there is ONLY one ISO 100 Velvia - Velvia 100F. If someone leaves off the "F" and calls it Velvia 100 as shorthand, it's still the same film.</i></p> <p>Perhaps in the United States. But here in Japan there is Velvia 100 and Velvia 100F, and they are very different emulsions. I have boxes of both sitting next to me as I type. Why Fujifilm has decided not to market Velvia 100 in the US is anyone's guess.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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