vincetylor Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Has anybody used this scanner yet. I am very interested in any feedback at all. Specifically regarding shadow and highlight detail. Thanks ahead of time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_kennealy Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I'm sure I'm not the first to have one - but I do have one. My impressions are highly favorable, although I've just not had time to do any highly quantitative evaluations. However, in comparing some 5400 scans to scans of the same slides from my SprintScan-4000, it's no contest. The 5400 is an easy winner in every way. More to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincetylor Posted July 10, 2003 Author Share Posted July 10, 2003 Great to hear Jack! I anticipate your next post on this thread..... Feel free to share any and all opinions. You da man! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel_staver1 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I just posted this in another thread, but realized the thread was rather old, so I'll repost it here... I'll see if I can make a test of shadow and highlight details and post some samples here later... I own the scanner, and here's some thoughts... It's a modified copy of some posts I made to the DigitalBW group. - I'm upgrading from a Canoscan FS4000US, and it's wonderful to finally get some decent software. The Canon software was horrible. The Minolta software has everything I would want - Levels, curves, save jobs and settings, ICE, multisampling, 16/48bit scanning, etc... The interface is logical and easy to use. - The grain dissolver has a small but noticable effect on most films. It has the strongest effect on color slide film, and the weakest effect on BW negative films. I still find it worth using, since it smooths out the grain just a little bit. Scanning times increase with this switched on. When using ICE the grain dissolver is mandatory and always switched on. - With ICE and color films the scanning times can be _really_ long. I measured 14 minutes for one color negative. That was at 5400dpi with ICE and the grain dissolver switched on. It's worth noting that a 5400dpi scan is almost exactly double the file-size of a 4000dpi scan, so longer scan times should be expected I guess. Still, 14 minutes is a long time to wait... Fortunately I do BW scans 95% of the time, and those always come in at less than 2 minutes. - I have some underexposed Kodak HIE negatives (exposed at ISO 50 when I should have used 400) that my previous Canon scanner had some serious problems with. The Canon software simply couldn't scan them, and with Vuescan I managed to rescue the images by increasing the exposure to very high values. The Minolta scanned them without any problems at all, just like any other negative. - The scanner software can run as a separate application and scan directly to files. This is really nice as I can work in Photoshop on one image while another is scanning. I honestly can't imagine why I would use Vuescan anymore. It's a nice application, but the Minolta software has a much better interface and does everything I need. - Is 5400dpi worth it? Maybe... With TMAX100 and Supra100 films I feel I can see some more detail at 5400dpi than 4000. A BW scan at 5400dpi is 70mb for 16bits BW and 230mb for 16bit color, so I resample down to 4000dpi if the scans aren't exceptionally sharp in the first place. - The image quality is great. I don't really notice much difference from a good scan with my previous Canon, except for the higher resolution of course. The work required to get a good scan is much less however, and that makes it worth it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I would be upgrading from a 2900 dpi Nikon coolscan III, so I don't doubt that the improvement would be worthwhile. What concerns me is not just the scanning time, but the minimum computer requirements - processor speed and, of course, memory. How many adjustment and duplicate layers do you use in your work flow? The other question is much more subjective. How do you determine that your original is 'sharp enough' to justify scanning at the highest resolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_kennealy Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I'm not sure why Daniel's scans were so slow. I tried a few scans of Velvia slides with both ICE and Grain Dissolver, and they were about 5-6 minutes per scan. Without either ICE or Grain Dissolver, I was getting complete 5400ppi scans in 1-1.5 minutes. I've concluded, in fact, that I prefer not to use ICE and Grain Dissolver, because I don't like their side effects. I prefer the results from manually cleaning up any dust/spot effects and, when really needed, use NeatImage for grain/noise reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincetylor Posted July 10, 2003 Author Share Posted July 10, 2003 Great comments, please keep them coming. Everything I have heard sounds very promising. I too would be tempted to use the scanner in raw mode. 14 minutes sounds like a bit, however it's easy enough to just go into Photoshop with one image, while scanning another. Carl, if the overall impression from Daniel is that he sees no reason to use the Cannon 4000 again (since using the Minolta 5400) may I ask why you would think it's not worth the upgrade from the much older 2900 dpi Nikon?? It's only $900. Just curious. Thanks again for ALL comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 "I DON'T doubt . . . " Pardon the double negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincetylor Posted July 10, 2003 Author Share Posted July 10, 2003 hehe ...must be my eyes Carl. Still early in Hawaii. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel_staver1 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I just tried a Velvia slide with ICE and Grain Dissolver, and it also took about 5-6 minutes. The one that took 14 minutes was a Supra 100 color negative. I'm using a firewire connection, not sure if that makes a difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendel_leisk Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 The precipitating factor in my decision to purchase Vuescan was my first and last attempt at scanning color negatives with Minolta's software and Scan Dual II. No ICE, and it still took around 15 minutes, compared to 1 1/2 to 3 minutes, for either black and white negatives or color slides. It will be interesting to see what happens to these times when Vuescan adds supports the Elite 5400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincetylor Posted July 10, 2003 Author Share Posted July 10, 2003 Fellow brothers, forget how long it takes (I am satisfied there) tell us about quality. Particularly about dynamic range! How are the shadows?? Also, I hear you get the entire frame on the scan...True?? Thanks so much for taking your time to share!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_childress Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Daniel I think if you exposed 400 asa film as if it were 50 asa you would get an overexposed negative rather than underexposed. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel_staver1 Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 You're absolutely right, at 50iso they're overexposed. I'm just mixing terms... The mounted slide holder will leave plenty of room around the slide when you're scanning, the film strip holder does not. With the film strip holder the edges of the holder covers the image just a lttle bit. I've found this to be insignificant, it's probably less than 1mm on each side. The scanner software leaves plenty of room around the image when scanning, so if you really wanted to you could probably file down the strip holder and get that last bit of image. Attached is a sample of shadow detail. It's a night scene shot with Velvia. The right side shows the uncorrected scan, and the right side shows the same scan after applying levels. The shadow detail certainly seems to be there, but pay attention to the horizontal streaks in the darkest shadows - I'm not sure how well you can see them in this small version, but they are there. I tried the same scan again without ICE and grain dissolver, and the streaks seemed to be gone, although there was still a horizontal pattern in the deepest shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william_symington Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 I have upgraded to the DSE 5400 from the DSE II and am favourably impressed with it. I have only used it for one evening so have no exhaustive results for you, but: 1. Much faster index scans/prescans than the DSE II. Better film holders - more robust and with better mechanism for holding the film flat. 2. Much the same user-friendly interface as before. Pixel-polish software can produce some good results if used appropriately. Grain dissolver does appear to soften grain decently well - does not eliminate it by any means. You can now batch scan with Minolta software - hooray! However, it appears to apply the same settings to each slide, so make sure they´re not of widely differing contrasts and brightnesses. 3. Scan times are acceptable for the resolution. I use Firewire connection and at 5400 dpi trannies take about 10 minutes. It may seem a long time - but you do get a 110MB image at the end! 4. Noticeably more detail than from 2820 dpi scans I´m used to. Whether there´s more useful detail than from a 4000dpi scanner I can´t say. Images viewed at 100% show soft details/edges - which I guess means that you´re pulling all the meaningful detail out that´s possible. Need to test some new USM settings to see what works best with these scans. 5. Robustly constructed and handsome-looking piece of kit. Very slim profile. I like the manual focus knob - easier to control than mouse-clicks. 6. From what little I´ve seen so far, shadow and highlight details seem good - but no better than the DSE II (which was good anyway). Like it very much so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan_horvath Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Does the new DSE 5400 give same sharpness and details than previous great scanner DSE II (I mean at the same dpi of course)? Or even better? DSE 5400 has a new 8 element optics! I wonder if is it useful? Before Minolta shipped the new DSE 5400 I found that the DSE II gives a very sharp, full of detail images with great range of tonal. Based on imaging-resource.com test images, seems that DSE II is sharper and has more detail than any tested scanners (even 4000 dpi FS 4000 and Nikon scanners). I would be interested for 100% sized cropped test images! It would be great and thanks for ALL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william_symington Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Zoltan, I haven´t tried scanning at any other resolution than 5400 dpi yet - my lo-res scanning days are over! Ha! It would be an interesting experiment I grant you. I´ll try and test it out at 2700 dpi (it looks like I can´t select 2820dpi as a possible resolution) and see how it stacks up against DSE II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william_symington Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Zoltan, Sorry, misread your question. I´ll try to post comparative crops from the two scanners at the maximum resolution, then resized. w. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan_horvath Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Thanks for that! My english is not so good, maybe my text was not clear. So I am looking forward with great intrest, thanks William! Of course I meant just a cropped detail of scanns (full scan surely would blow out photo.net). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel_staver1 Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 I've tested this some more and can conclude that the scanning time I mentioned of 14 minutes for a color negative with ICE and Grain Dissolver enabled is for color negatives only. Color slides always take about 5-6 minutes at 5400dpi with ICE and Grain Dissolver enabled. Unfortunately this means it will also take 14 minutes if you want to use ICE with chromogenic films, since you have to scan them as color negatives. I've also done experiments comparing 5400dpi vs 4000dpi scans, and I haven't yet found a slide or negative that contained any additional detail at 5400dpi. The grain structure is much prettier however, having a much more detailed and natural look than the upsampled 4000dpi scans, so I think it's worthwile purely as a better alternative to other upsampling methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel_staver1 Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 I just scanned a chromogenic Ilford XP2 negative that had many scratches on it from the lab. With my Canon FS4000US the scratches would be there even after using FARE, but the same negative scanned with ICE and Grain Dissolver has no scratches at all. 14 minutes is much less than the time it would take me to remove those scratches myself, and much less boring since I can do something else while it's scanning, so it seems like the long scanning times for color negatives could be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincetylor Posted July 11, 2003 Author Share Posted July 11, 2003 Great comments. I just ordered one from tristatecamera.com since B&H is still sold out. Not only did they have it in stock, but they also had it for $60 less. However, they do NOT have the greatest reputatation according to the reviews. A throwing of the dice! I look forward to more feedback here, and will offer my own since once I receieve (supposedly on Tuesday). Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_kennealy Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Buying from tristatecamera.com could be much more of an adventure than buying a new scanner. Good luck - and let us know how it turns out - <b><i>if</b></i> it does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardfuhrman Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Photo-i just did an independent review on the 5400. The web address is: http://www.photo-i.co.uk/ Howard Fuhrman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel_bliss Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Thanks for the tip. Actually, it looks like Photo-i is adding to the review day by day -- it will be interesting to see how it shapes out. The Kodachrome scan results are quite impressive in my view but what I really want to see is more testing of shadow detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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