francis_abad Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Has anyone availed themselves of the special order service of Ebony Cameras, that is, ordering cameras greater than 11x14 inches in size? If so, what did you experience during the delivery period and did the final product measure up to your expectations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_gasteazoro4 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I dont think anybody here has won the lottery yet.....$19,000 for a 7x17...I dont think so...:-)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francis_abad Posted September 12, 2003 Author Share Posted September 12, 2003 Must be some camera! Just like really great super-hi-end tube amps (e.g. Tenor Audio, Jadis, Lamm, etc)! There must be something which sets them apart to warrant such a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_kadillak13 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 As long as their are those that have the financial resources to expend on such a camera where the costs are not a concern, there will be companies that are willing to provide them with such a product. I suspect that if there was someone that did in fact purchase a magnum Ebony, they are probably working overtime to pay for it and do not have the time to spend with us normal folks on this forum. My experience has taught me that the only reason to upgrade any camera is when it starts to demonstrate its shortcomings relative to weight, bellows draw, movements or rigidity. My friend Pete finally acquired one of the new 8x10 lightweight Canham cameras after years of making quality images with his heavier B&J. And the good news is that he did not have to take out a second mortgage to accomplish his objective. Considering the ULF options with Lotus, Canham, and Phillips, I would be hard pressed to conclude that an Ebony, while they are well made cameras, perform their designed task of making ULF images to a proportional greater degree that their increased costs represents. In a similar vein, I have always wondered why folks would put a Rolex on their wrisk for big bucks when a $20 Casio will perform the same task. But maybe that is just me. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_candland1 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I guess you need a ULW (ultra large wallet) to go with it. I know the Ebony's are nice but that's an insane upcharge for a 7 x 17 camera unless that's 7' x 17'. They either; can get it so they do, don't really want to make any or want to recoup tooling costs asap. Maybe all 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piang_ngok_chong Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Pardon me. The question was the "experience during delivery service, and whether the final product measure up to expectation". The question was not whether it is worth the money, etc. I do not have a Ebony. But I know of a guy who had a custom made Ebony 20x26. I saw and handled the camera in his home. The camera was beautiful, with meticulous attention to the tiniest details. I myself have a beautiful 11x14 Tachihara. But the construction of the Tachihara does not even come close to the Ebony. I was impressed! However without a doubt, the Ebony does not take better pictures than any other camera. But it is a real joy to use. Was he happy with the special order service and delivery? Absolutely! Would I buy one? If I have lots and lots of money, I might! Worth it? Depends on your value system. Is a 911 worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_gasteazoro4 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 <i>Pardon me. The question was the "experience during delivery service, and whether the final product measure up to expectation". The question was not whether it is worth the money, etc. </i><p> Ah, jeeezz...they pay $25 and all of the sudden they are all forum editors....cant wait till the forum moves!...<p> BTW, I posted the price for one of this cameras so that Francis would know that probably there would not be many answers to his question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan brewer Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Francis............feel free to ask your questions and speak your mind, now and in the future, if the question wasn't legit the moderators would've deleted, they haven't so fire away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francis_abad Posted September 13, 2003 Author Share Posted September 13, 2003 Thanks Jonathan. I just love functional art, even if I did pay for the tooling myself. It appears that Ebony can make superior ULF cameras if one were willing to pay those prices. Plus it seems at least to one reply that the service and delivery period experience were excellent. No negative comments yet - must be a first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piang_ngok_chong Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 "Ah jeeezz...they pay $25 and all of the sudden they are forum editors" Come again? People post questions to the forum to get help. If one does not have an answer, why indulge in venting your personal peeve? Francis, there are numerous threads in this forum regarding the Ebony cameras. I had also searched the forum in my quest to be more more enlightened about the various makes. I have not found anyone who thinks that they make better pictures with their Ebony cameras. But many little details make taking pictures that little easier. Many have looked at the Ebony cameras and even called them functional art, as you described. The quality of the Ebony cameras are not challenged. The service is impeccable. The reasons for the high cost have also been discussed in this forum. I have lusted for one. But the high cost of the 11x14 was too prohibitive for me. So I settled for a very nice functional Tachihara. I am happy with my Tachihara. But when I looked at the Ebony, I was truly amazed at the really meticulous attention to details. For example when the bellows is racked all the way out, it sags, and cut off the picture. Ebony have a very smart device to take care of this. For me? I use a little suitably sized empty box to prop up the bellows. Works, but not neat. I think there are not many who will chose a casio over a rolex when presented as a gift. It is your value system (and your pocket) when you have to foot the payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_candland1 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 "Come again? People post questions to the forum to get help. If one does not have an answer, why indulge in venting your personal peeve?" Mr Chong, I have no "pet peeve" with Ebony Cameras or any others for that matter. While it's true I didn't answer the question, this is a free forum and people are entitled to comment. I was just rather shocked at the price increase of the larger cameras. Ebony makes fine cameras and I can see why some people can justify the around 50-100% higher prices from the other makers for 4 x 5, 5 x 7, or 8 x 10s. But when you�re talking about a 7 x 17 that�s 400% of the price of the other ULF makers. Well, It was just a bit of sticker shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_alpert1 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I have an Ebony 8x10 (mahogany) which I enjoy using. When I ordered the camera, I was told that Ebony was about a month behind in their delivery schedule. The camera was delivered at the time promised with no problems in craftsmanship. Although my camera was not a special order, I think my positive experience is indicative that Ebony is reliable in their craft and their delivery schedule. The ULF Ebony cameras are undoubtedly engineered for ease of use in the field. Since your camera will be your primary tool for many years, it makes good sense to buy the best camera you can afford. My only suggestion is that the image quality (brightness) on the ground-glass would probably benefit from a fresnel screen, such as the one made by Maxwell Optics, for installation behind the ground glass. (This suggestion is also offered for Gandolfi and other 8x10 or larger cameras that do not have a fresnel. Also, I am not positive that Bill Maxwell makes screens for ULF cameras; you need to check with him.) Fresnels from other sources may also be fine. I am happy with the screen I bought from Maxwell, which is the reason I am suggesting that source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_gasteazoro4 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 <i>Come again? People post questions to the forum to get help. If one does not have an answer, why indulge in venting your personal peeve? </i><p> Who has a peeve here? I certainly do not have one. OTOH if you think the price plays no part in considering a camera you are either rich or naive. At the prices Ebony is asking I thought there was a likelyhood that nobody here would have one, and so far I think I am correct. Even your response is a second hand experience, you personally have no idea what is like to get a camera like this nor the service they provide. The questions starts "Has anyone availed themselves," since you have not, you are as guilty as anybody here of posting an "opinion", so please in the future let the moderators judge if the responses are relevant or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francis_abad Posted September 14, 2003 Author Share Posted September 14, 2003 Thanks Michael. I have been in touch via email with the people representing Ebony (Japan) and they have been upfront about delivery schedule so far. They started by saying four months with full payment upfront. But when they realised, quite speedily I might add, that it would be closer to eight months (due to a backlog of orders on the other sizes) they told me that they would make every effort to disregard the full payment requirement and instead make some kind of a deal that makes sense in light of the time value of money. In fact, without even stating the level of my seriousness, they have undertaken to design such a camera for me in order that I can make a better decision. They will focus primarily on making such a camera a field design. Without a doubt, just like Breguet watches, it is going to cost a lot of money. However, so far, all indications are that I will NOT feel that it is expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_gasteazoro4 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 <i>Without a doubt, just like Breguet watches, it is going to cost a lot of money. However, so far, all indications are that I will NOT feel that it is expensive.</i><p> So you are planning on getting one? wow....if you do, would you post a pic and a review? I would love to see the camera finished and what you think of the operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francis_abad Posted September 14, 2003 Author Share Posted September 14, 2003 Jorge, if this forum is still up and running if and when I do decide to take the plunge I definitely will give it a review with photos. I am confident that this forum will still be around for any eventuality. I will keep you posted. Great forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piang_ngok_chong Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I am fully aware that that mine was a second hand experience, and I was conveying an experience that a friend had with his ULF ebony. I spend an afternoon with him talking and handling his Ebony 20x26. But at least I was trying to be helpful. Many responses did not even attempt to help! I think it would be good for us to look at the thread submitted by Michael Alpert titled "Goodbye" under the large format forum. I can't help but agree with Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_muse Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Francis, maybe the high end amps are more analogous to lenses. Since they actually process the "signal" they do indeed have an impact on the image quality. Functional art? Indeed, and as art it amounts to more than just a pretty package! My Rowland, breathes life into music in a way that is almost spooky. It is high resolution and lively, but also balanced, relaxed, and completely natural - as subtle as the music fed into it. I just got my Ebony, a little 23S. Its a jewel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_hamley Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Francis, No experience on ULF, but my 4x5 ordering experience was fine, and I'm about to find out on an 8x10. Good luck and good for you! Pictures and tell us how you like it please. Thanks! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francis_abad Posted September 15, 2003 Author Share Posted September 15, 2003 Thanks Steve. I am eagerly awaiting their proposed designs. By the way, I failed to mention that the design is for a 12x20. Eight months seems a looooooooooonnnnng time but if I can be convinced by both soundness of design and business practices then I certainly do not mind waiting. I shall continue to hone my meager skills with the 8x10 (a Wisner Expedition which I bought from a dealer hence the reason for this thread - I have never had any experience doing business directly with a camera builder). Oh, the wife does know about this project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_gasteazoro4 Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Wow Francis, you get the camera and you get to sleep in the house too?...and I thought I had it good! Congrats, and dont forget the review you promised me...I am sure this forum will still be around in 8 months. BTW, you got your wisner from a dealer, but there have some instances where a custom made Wisner can take up to 2 years, so 8 months are not so bad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francis_abad Posted September 15, 2003 Author Share Posted September 15, 2003 Hi Jorge. Here is how it worked out with the Wisner. I cold-called Fred Newmann (DI guy) from London and he told me that if I come over I could get the camera and have a workshop with him as well (a la Phil Davis' BTZS). Literally, I got the camera and workshop within a space of two weeks. Great guy! Great experience! This was back in Sept 1996 so maybe things have changed a bit. I would like to add though that I have never felt that the Wisner Exp 8x10 was completely rigid. I am always wary of where the wind blows and how strong. Drives me crazy! Maybe I am paranoid but for some strange reason I can sense that there is some lack of stiffness to the design (or the assembly?). I love the camera but I am always baby-ing the way I set it up. This is the reason why I am willing to consider Ebony custom-made. Rigidity? Quality? Peace of mind (definitely!). Those negatives take a lot out of my health and I want it to be worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_gasteazoro4 Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 As I have never used a Wisner I have no idea, but is not the first time I have heard that. In any case for the kind of money you are going to pay, that sucker better be tighter than a gnats a$$...I am sure they will make a good design, most people who have Ebony camras rave about them. I think Paul Owen is in your side of the pond, perhaps he might be willing to give you his opinion. Good luck and have fun with the camera..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emile_de_leon10 Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 For the price of one Ebony 12x20 camera you can have one 12x20 Wisner camera and an extra 11x14 back....and for a spare/backup camera.... a 20x24 Wisner..... with more than $2,000.00 in your pocket to boot! If I were you I would want to see all the ULF dealers/companies cameras to make sure you are not making a HUGE mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan brewer Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 'I spend an afternoon with him talking and handling his Ebony 20x26'................................What did his camera cost? I ask because I have in mind what Fracis is considering, so I wonder if the tooling/design already exists for a camera that is here and happens to be an Ebony. I also see from another thread that an Ebony 11x14 is roughly 10 grand and change, francis what if you can get an Ebony between the 11x14 and the 20x26 that may be way cheaper with idea of cropping to 12x20 from a different format? What if you can get a different format, crop to what you want, and save thousands, is this a consideration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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