wieslaw1 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 There are bulk, 9 inches wide films available for sale, which can be easily trimmed to 4x5, but I am afraid that the curved sheets resulting from such a roll will not lay flat in regular holders. Any comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug_dolde Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 My only comment is you must be a glutton for punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk_arts Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 MY FINGER! WHERE IS MY FINGER! I CAN'T SEE! IT'S TOO DARK! If you cut it so that the curl runs paralelle along the long edge, I wouldn't think you would have a problem. You're sure this film isn't litho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reinhold_schable Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 9 inch roll film is typically use in aerial cameras, and thus is typically thinner than cut size film. (Check the Kodak spec sheets on aero films). That may not be a problem if it is cut so that the "curl" is supressed by the film guides in a 4x5 holder. That means cutting it so that it would tend to curl into a 4 inch long tube, not a 5 inch tube. That's the way you would naturally cut it anyway.(2 four inch wide pieces, side-by-side). It's possible that the strain dynamics under these conditions might make the film lay very flat despite bein thinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_kasaian1 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Wieslaw, I believe you're refering to roll films used in large format aerial cameras. The thin 2.5 mil Estar base used by Kodak, in my experience, flattens out quite nicely when inserted into holders but thats not too surprising as flat film is critical in aerial photography! Maybe the thinner base helps---I don't know. Keep in mind that it is a lot thinner than the base material used in normal sheet film. My aerial cameras have fittings to apply a vacume to keep the film flat, but so far I haven't felt the need to use this feature. Maybe I'm just lucky. Aerial film is interesting stuff to work with and quite economical, but I find cutting film down in the dark to be a real drag(personal opinion!) If you want 4x5 or 5x7, you can get 5" wide rolls, which should simplify things considerably. If you want 8x10 then the 9"---actually its 9 1/2"--- would be the ticket. The film you'll find for sale will be dated stock (which hasn't presented any problems for me,) but I'd still buy from a reputable dealer, preferably one who keeps the stuff either frozen or at least in the fridge(I'm talking B+W panchromatic---I've no experience with color or infra red aerial emulsions, though they are available. Maybe someone with HEI withdrawls and a rotatrim will chime in!) Every so often they'll be film for sale where the seller will have no idea about the conditions under which it was stored except maybe "it was in a hangar"---not my cup o' tea. Also, the dealer should have some data available to help you out, as aerial speeds aren't the same as ISO, nor are the trade names the same emulsions as similarly named sheet film. Support from Kodak(who will only sell the film directly to individuals who order titanic quantities) can be anywhere from excellent to abysmal. I've had delightful converstions with thier tech people over the phone as well as correspondence with thier regional sales representative. Great service, especially considering I'm buying dated kodak film from a non-kodak source. OTOH, requesting information on earth imaging(thats what kodak calls it)from their website is like catching the last train into limbo. Maybe if my name was NASA, they'd answer my e-mails(then again, maybe kodak layed the poor guy off and nobodys minding the site!) Anyway, IMHO its neat stuff worth trying. I've been playing with 3412, 2402(both superb emulsions!) and 2498(an industrial, not aero film that, strangely enough comes in 9-1/2" wide rolls. See my post--- What is this stuff? for info on 2498) FWIW, I like aerial film, but the only way to know if you'll like it is to try it.------Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_youmans Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 I'm curious - does this film "remember" its curly origins when you process it in a tray? Might be hanger-only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_kasaian1 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Bill, I can't say. I use a Houston-Fearless(!) processor when I'm shooting rolls and a Unicolor drum for cut film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_kasaian1 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 .......I don't think the "curl" is unmanageable. IMHO, the "memory" of the stuff is kind of like motion picture film, but I suppose that could vary with whatever emulsion you're usuing and the thickness of the Estar base. FWIW, I've also heard of Ortho roll film, used for making copies of negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffrey moore Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 You must be out of your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk_arts Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 <<That means cutting it so that it would tend to curl into a 4 inch long tube, not a 5 inch tube.>> Reinhold, the reason i suggested along the 5" side is because the film holder, atleast with the graflex magazine, the only film holder I have much experience with, secures the film down along this edge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_goldfarb Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Unless there is an emulsion that you want to use that is only available in this form, I don't see much of a case for doing this for 4x5", since there are plenty of good films available for 4x5" without the thin base. If the concern is cost, then consider Arista or Efke. On cutting down film in the dark, people who shoot 5x7" are more likely to do this (from 8x10"), and there have been a few threads on the topic, so you might try a search for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_kasaian1 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 ......Of course, if you suffer from G.S.F.I.D.F.T.M.S., or "Gee, Sheet Film is Disappearing From The Market Syndrome" it might be comforting to know that you've got the equivalent of 1,500 sheets of film stashed in your freezer, back behind the Popsicles and Birdseye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wieslaw1 Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Cutting fingers in the dark is not a problem, after all, they will grow again, rather leaving finger prints, scratches, electrostatic marks, etc. on the emulsion, worries me. I have a 70mm Rollex for my Linhof, an thus an access to various aero films, albeit not 4x5 format. I became curious, however, because there is someone on ebay for some time offering 9,5 inch wide rolls (that�s nearly a 0.5m wide!, obviously not for a camera but for a BEAST!) of � PLUS-X PAN 2402 � and � PANATOMIC-X Aerecon II B&W Film #3412� in 125 and 500 feet length, standard perforations. Under 100$/roll and he claims You can get: 1500 4x5's @ 6.6¢ each or 857 5x7's @ 11.6¢ ea., per roll! Cirkut 4" to 6"** rolls @ 97¢ ea, etc. It must be an outdated film, I believe, but the seller provides something like: �Inspection/Test Date: 3/2003� ??? I am not sure if I go for that, because cutting would require preparation of a well organized, precision equipment and procedures in place (and darkness). For 8x10 guys however, and some films going 8$ for a single sheet this might be on opportunity. Final question: The very thin negatives will not sag in a glass-less negative holders? PS Bradford Washburns mountain photographs must have been done on aero films. The pictures are outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_kasaian1 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Wieslaw, Ed, mrfoto@localnet.com has been selling aerial film for quite some time and knows more about it than most folks. He is also a wealth of knowledge on making jigs for cutting sheet film and would know of any issues having to do with putting aerial film into sheet film holders as well. I haven't had any problems(so far) but you might as well get the skinny "straight from the horse's mouth" so to speak. I've bought film from him for my K-17, F-8 and K-20 cameras(notice the cameras keep getting smaller as I keep getting older!) and he's always been very helpful. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wieslaw1 Posted August 24, 2003 Author Share Posted August 24, 2003 John, this link goes to http://mrfoto@localnet.com/ - they are internet providers, have nothing to do with bandwith on mylar, or on celluloid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_kasaian1 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Wieslaw, Ooops! I'll see if I can find a more current e-mail address for Ed. I'll e-mail you his address if you don't mind snail mail.-------regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_kasaian1 Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Wieslaw, You might try this one: mp@pa.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo_numen1 Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 I'm not the sharpest hammer in the bag.<br> But I can see a way to cut this stuff without<br> any problems and no cut fingers!<br> All for the cost of rotory scissors!<br> <b>For one thing ALL sheet film is cut from large rolls!</b><br> I have never used any without some minor curl, have you?<br> I just can't get past unknown pedigree of this stuff..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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