Summilux 75/1.4 vs Elmarit 90/2.8?

[patrik in sweden]

My Dealer has a mint Summilux 75/1.4 which is 1.5 yrs old and asking

the equvalent of $ 2300/£ 1400/� 2000. After checking around this

seems "OK", or am I wrong?

 

As this lens seems that a lot of you seem to have all had, but gotten

rid of it due to lack of use, I wish to hear your thoughts about

getting this instead of the Elmarit 90/2.8, which I use and like a

lot. The size & weight of the Elmarit 90/2.8 is perfect. But

sometimes the lack of f-stop dreads me and when seeing the mentioned

Summilux, the gearhead in me woke up, how about exchange the 90 to a

75?

What are your thoughts and ideas about this?

I am aware of the finacial impact this has, and I can buy loads of

film instead...

 

Another issue is that I am thinking to expand from my 3 lens combo

(21/35/90) and get a tabbed 50 Cron as I love that feature on the

35/2 ASPH, but this will get the 75 very close to the 50 in focal

length.

As I have not done the "live" comparison myself, only looking at

Leica's VF's on the net,I am not sure about this.

 

Obviously there is a risk that the love for the 1.4 f-stop will make

me want to change the 35 'Cron into a 'lux, the future 50 'Cron into

a 'lux...

 

Please let me have your serious thoughts as I searched the forum

about my question without luck.

 

Thanks.

[patricks]

Hej Patrik! (harligt med en till svensk pa forumet)

 

First of all, the prices on Leica gear in Sweden seems rather ridicolous. I bought and sold a absolute mint latest version 75'lux here for around $1,500. I've seen them go here for $1,400. Big difference in my check-book between that and the $2,300 your local dealer is asking.

 

The 90/2.8 is very nice in many ways, but the characteristics of the 75'lux are different, and I would also say it is a more flexible lens - very sharp across from corner to corner, but it also allows you to play with the DoF in a complete different way (obviously).

 

If you like shooting portraits, and have lots of money to spare, the 75'lux is the "killer application".

 

Cheers,

[jay_.]

You're comparing apple to orange. Or maybe more like watermelons and oranges. The 75 is almost twice the size and weight of the 90/2.8, it is much stiffer to focus and has a much longer throw, and it blocks a significant part of the viewfinder frame even at infinity and becomes progressively worse the closer it's focused. The DOF at f/1.4 and f/2 are so shallow that very few shots at close range work, even if you happen to luck out and get the point in-focus that you focused on. It is a very specialized lens that takes a lot of patience, practice and tolerance to get comfortable with. I bought, used, disliked and sold two of them. I love my 90/2.8. You really need to shoot with it before you buy, especially at the price you're having to pay, which is full MSRP retail for a brand-new one with Passport in the USA. A mint used one goes for under $1500 here.

[watts]

It's a great lens. It is plenty sharp enough - even at F1.4 - and

has a pleasing 'pre-ASPH' type bokeh. It also focuses down to

0.7m so allows for the tightest headshots or 'close-ups'

possible in the M system. However, for me it had two major

drawbacks.

 

First, it is very difficult to focus at full aperture even on subjects

that are not moving - especially up close - the DOF is incredibly

narrow. This problem is exacerbated by the rangefinder patch

focussing method. If like me you like to place your subject's eyes

distinctly off centre you will quickly wish that you could focus this

lens on an SLR ground glass screen. I found it even harder to

focus when in portrait orientation but that may be just me.

 

Second, it seems such a heavy and bulky lens (though in reality

it weighs less than the noctilux and is the same as a chrome

version 90/2.8). It didn't balance for me that well on a 'naked' M

body. With the M motor attached the balance was better though

still a little lens heavy.

 

Many of my criticisms can also be levelled at the Noctilux (and

the Noct introduces other issues such as a curved field and

focus shift problems) but the Noct has the saving grace of an

unique signature look. I can forgive all its failings because it

provides for me a swirly (most would say messy) bokeh that you

simply cannot get with any other lens. The 75/1.4 is about as

good as it gets image wise but it simply wasn't unique enough

for me to override the disadvantages I encountered with it. Of

course, it may be different for you - horses for courses, etc.

[charles barcellona www.bl]

You might condiser waiting, and getting a used 90/2.0 Summicron... yes its large, but the price will be MUCH lower than the 75/1.4 Summilux, and it offers quite similar possibilites for limited DOF.

[stephen_w.]

It's the sharpest and smoothest lens I own. Yes, it's big and heavy, but compared to the SLR equivalents, it's OK.

 

I use a grip on the camera, and focus landscape, then turn portrait.

 

I bought mine here for $1100, mint with caps and a Leica UV.

 

Stay tuned, I may sell soon (at the same price), as I have a Noct'.

[john_chan2]

You can still get good subject isolation with the 90/2.8 @ 2.8. I had the 75 lux for 2 years and I can vouch for the fact that it is EXTREMELY difficult to get proper focus @ 1.4 unless your subject is as stationary as a stone. My 90 tele-elmarit (thin) now does duty in the absence of the 75 and I couldn't be happier.

Lighter, less finder blockage, 39 mm thread, alot cheaper...

Subject composition makes up 95% of the success of an image... lens signature makes up perhaps the last 5% but if you're already a 95% photographer (can't say that I am) maybe the 75 lux is worth the extra cost.

 

John.

[george_l._doolittle]

I certainly agree with Charles. I love my 90mm Apo Summicron...when I

want to minimize weight and bulk, a 2.8 Tele Elmarit is a wonderful

lens...I'm taking the T-E to Italy next week. Another thought is that

the 75mm is too close to a 50mm, which I presume you have. The 90mm

gives a tighter composition...handy for photographing people without

intimidating them.

[patricks]

Patrik,

 

a viable option would be to get my fav. lens, a latest version 50'lux, which is very compact and light, relatively speaking. Fouces down to 0.7 meter, very useful at f1.4. Sharp in the center, which allows for really nice portraits.

 

FYI, I just got a "new" minty one last week for $1,000 and did squeeze of two rolls of Delta 400 with it over the weekend. The negatives look very nice and up to my expectations (I have yet to print and/or scan)

 

Cheers,

[john_collier2]

For all of you who have been critising the price his local dealer charges, remember

that any lens Patrik imports will be subject to substancial duties and taxes. I am sure

Patrik has taken this into account when he said the price was reasonable.

 

As to whether he should buy it, there is only one way to find out. Buy it and try it out.

You can always resell it if need be and this way you will know for sure. The only

reason to go to a high speed lens is that you are constantly trying to turn that

aperture ring one more stop that just isn't there. So if you are happy with your other

lenses then I do not think that one f1.4 lens will necessarily cause a virulent case of

high speeditus

 

I have a Noctilux which I love but everytime I read that a Summilux weighs only 280

gms or so...

[stephen_w.]

John,

 

If one sends by USPS Priority Mail, there is no duty to pay. I have done just that to Japan and Singapore.

[watts]

<i>If one sends by USPS Priority Mail, there is no duty to pay. I

have done just that to Japan and Singapore.</i><br><br>What

sort of bollocks answer is that? Patrik is in Sweden. Sweden will

have different import duties and sales taxes to consider than

Singapore and Japan. There can be exceptions and oversights

(especially on small sized goods) but in my experience of

importing stuff into the EU (whether originated from US Postal

service or sent via Fedex, UPS, etc.) is that duties and sales tax

are almost always levied at the receiving end - i.e. my front door!

[xav]

This seems a European price, unfortunately. A new 75 in London costs a bit less than £1,600. A mint minus (whatever it means, not as good as yours) is £1,200. Note that in the US, traditionally prices are without taxes where in Europe (I don't know for sure for Sweden), prices include VAT (about 20% of the retail price? not sure).

For what I know, many people reject the 75, but the one who don't really love this lens. Difficult decision without trying one for some time.

[patricks]

Being Swedish and all, I guess I should weigh in on this.

 

True, Sweden is a beaurcratic society and prides itself in charging the maximum amount of taxes/penalites/duties it can out of its poor citizen. Having said that, if you ship something to a company adress as a comercial sample or gift, one should be able to get around this.

 

From my point of view, if one buys a used item from a private party abroad, why should there be a huge tax penality?

[bas1]

adress as a comercial sample or gift

 

NOT for that value you won't. Gifts or samples are just as much object to tax as any other commodity that crosses the border. The fact that there is no monetary exchange doesn't alter the value of the goods. Check with your customs department. Again this is assumming customs isn't overlooking your parcel and at a $1500 value they won't, but then again, I only have 20 years working experience in logistics in europe, so whatdoiknow....

[patricks]

Obviously more than me... (who never ships anything to Sweden - I bring it in person)

[fotografz]

IMO, the 75/1.4 is one of the defining lenses in the M system.

Many of the things said about the use of it are true, if you limit its

use to minimum focusing distance at f/1.4. However, practice

and care help overcome those issues if you maintain respect for

them, and don't think you can cheat a shot of this type with sloppy

technique.

 

Use the lens wide open in other, less demanding

circumstances in terms of shooting distance, and it really

shines. I use a .085 finder and one of Lutz's "Steers" to help

more finely focus the 75. I also use it wide open in daylight by

attaching a ND filter. Were I forced to a 2 lens kit, it would be a

35/1.4 ASPH and the 75/1.4. In fact, that is often the M kit I carry

to a wedding assignment.<div></div>

[gerry_szarek]

Marc, cool shot!

 

FYI Patrik, if you have been following the rumors a NEW 90 is coming out soon, this should drop the price of the existing 90's and the 75, if you can hold off you should save a bunch of money. If the $1000 difference is true, you should be able to get a round trip plane ticket to the US of A for less than that and a nice vacation in Boston or NYC. Buy the lens used, ship all the paper back via snail mail, bring the lens back with you on the plane.

 

GS

[patrik in sweden]

All,

 

thanks for all you various answers.Note the time difference, due to my "late" response.

 

1. Price issue.

 

Your concern of the price issue is very nice to hear, yes, the prices are high in Sweden, I therefore have bought most of my gear in the UK. The dealers have been Classic Camera( they seem to have attended a customer service course as they have been very helpful lately) and Fieldgrass & Gale (always good). I also bought my 21/2.8 ASPH from aforum member in the UK. The UK VAT is 17.5% and the Swedish is 25%, however when buying 2nd hand this does not apply.

But as 75/1.4 Summilux comes in various versions, this is something I want to see in the flesh before going ahead. But getting one from the UK, dealer or private, sounds tempting. Ian, do you still have yours?

 

2. Shipping to Sweden.

 

Now this is a pain, like Ian Watts said. You always get to pay in the receiving end. Not only shiping, but customs and on top of it all VAT. So getting a good deal from the US and to ship it into the EU/Sweden, forget it. You will get screwed. I have done several times, and never worked. But as you say, stating something like used, repaired and returning to owner, gift, etc, may work. But NO dealers are willing to do this, private persons may do.

 

 

3. Usefulness of the 75/1.4 Summilux

 

Now this is interesting. I know Jay is not in favour of this lens from previous threads.

Yes, it felt quite big but not extremly heavy. It is the focusing issue I am afraid of and of course the pros/cons on the lack of DOF. Marc, et al, thanks for your thoughts.

 

4. Lens combo

 

I hope to het more answers on this. I have a 3 lens combo (21/2.8, 35/2 ASPH, 90/2.8). Getting a 75/1.4 would replace the 90mm. But as I am keen on getting a 50mm as well, wouldn't this be too close 35/50/75?? Perhaps the 50 would be obsolete in this scenario.

 

5. Using a .72 M6 TTL with a 75/1.4 Summilux

 

As many users of this lens seem to use the .85 finder, howabout the .72 finder, is this "too" dificult to focus on?

 

Many thanks for your kind help.

[stephen_w.]

I have now shipped to Switzerland, not insured, marked as gift. The buyer payed ~$40 in taxes and duty for a $400 declared value.

 

35/50/75 is not too close. I just don't carry all three at the same time.

[patrik in sweden]

Steve, Switzerland is a non EU country and all (Europeans at least) know their non-existent tax policies (at least from a Swedish POW)

 

Thanks.

[patricks]

Patrik,

 

to do justice to the 75'lux you'll need a .85 vf. One alternative is to get a 1.25x magnifier when using the 75, the better alternative is to get a beater M3 with a .92 vf!

[patrik in sweden]

Patrick,

 

I have had a look through an 0.85 body, and I cannot really see the difference, nor with the 1.15 magnifier on a 0.72!

I do wear glasses, but don't consider myself blind, perhaps I should!

[stephen_w.]

Is Sweden an EU country? Do they use Euro's? I lost track.

[patricks]

FYI, yes Sweden is a EU country. Just this Sunday Sweden voted no against joining the EMU/using the Euro in a national referendum. Go figure. Don't get me started on that thread.

 

Patrik - then you just have to try a minty M3 with a bright and contrasty VF w/o any irritating diods.