No Words, Trailer Park Trash

[douglas k.]

"Bob, If I had said upfront that the shots were staged, I wouldn't have gotten a good read on them. Given the initial responses, I now know that our work was a success. It's authentic enough to offend. Love it. Thanks."

 

I'm not offended by the photos, and the fact that they're staged is meaningless to me. I'm offended by terminology that perpetuates a nasty stereotype. As Bob mentioned, using derogatory terms to describe racial minorities wouldn't fly, and this doesn't fly, either, at least with me. As for your comment that "our work was a success": please note that the only comment on the photos themselves refers to the model's ass -- without the provocative subject line, these photos would merit no comment.

[el_fang]

<i>"The characters portrayed in this thread are entirely fictional and resemblance to any persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental" - Paul Stenquist</i>

<p>I see you're still taking it as a joke. I'd like to see how your tone changes when your actress friend hauls you off to court for making her look stupid in a public forum...

[paulstenquist]

Al wrote:

Paul, it is OK if she agreed to this term AND if she knows that it

will be used to describe her picture posted in a public forum. I

don't know to what extent she agreed to have this label used, but

I hope you have a model release that includes permission for

you to use it.

 

Yes, yes, and yes.

She's also a very good friend of many years standing. We

planned this shoot for several months. It was always going to be

"Trailer Park Trash." However, in deference to the sensitivity of

some, I have named the Photo Net folder where all the shots will

eventually be displayed "Trailer Park Princess."

[el_fang]

<i>"gee, i thought this post was tongue in cheek. my subjects don't even live in a trailer park, i was just trying to fit an image with a stereotype. didn't know pn had become so pc. ?:-)"</i>

<p>Not so much pc as a legal minefield. Your posting of your Elvis fans picture in a public thread entitled "Trailer Park Trash" is grounds for a lawsuit as well.

[paulstenquist]

"Emotionally Charged" Al wrote:

"....when she hauls you off to court for making her look stupid in a

public forum."

 

She doesn't look stupid. She looks quite lovely.<div></div>

[dennis_couvillion]

I dunno, I think the people who live in the South, like myself, find the photos funny. You see, everyone who lives here in the South either knows someone, or is related to people, just like the girl in the pics. The touch of authenticity in the photos, for me, is the pack of cigarettes on the railing next to the Budweiser can.

 

The first time I drove to Alabama I was stopped at the state line where my car was searched for cigarettes. When they discovered I had none, they made me buy a whole carton of smokes. You see, in those days, cigarette smoking was mandatory in Alabama. (This story is almost entirely true.) ;>)

 

BTW, Mike Dixon, when does that purty little gal turn 17? You know how them women start gettin' fat when they hit middle age. ;>)

 

Lighten up, guys.

 

Dennis

[el_fang]

<i>"Yes, yes, and yes. She's also a very good friend of many years standing. We planned this shoot for several months. It was always going to be 'Trailer Park Trash.'"</i>

<p>That's all well and good, but you should have said that in the very beginning, because this is a forum where people do "reality-based" photography. It would then be understood that your picture (and caption) are an illustration and not to be taken as reality. Believe it or not, the problems of illustration vs journalism and libel/defamation are covered in Kobre's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0240804155/qid=1060632371/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-7462360-2487855?v=glance&s=books&n=507846" target="_blank">Photojournalism: The Professionals' Approach</a>.

 

<p>Otherwise, you're making yourself look like a troll who is trying to get a rise out of people (which, apparently, you have successfully done).

[el_fang]

<i>"She looks quite lovely."</i>

<p>I agree, but I'm not talking about the picture, I'm talking about the caption.

[dennis_couvillion]

"Hmmm, this is deja vu."

 

Uh, Al, why are you always so concerned with, what you perceive to be, other people's potential legal problems? I thought it was kinda funny when you gave me lagal advice on my "dancin' fools" pics, considering that I'm a lawyer.

 

Dennis

[paulstenquist]

Douglas Kinnear wrote:

As for your comment that "our work was a success": please note

that the only comment on the photos themselves refers to the

model's ass -- without the provocative subject line, these photos

would merit no comment.

 

My comment in regard to the work being a success was in

respect to the fact that the photos were mistaken for the real

thing. That, once again, is why I didn't indicate that they were

staged. The "trailer park trash" title is unimportant, and I

apologized to any who were offended many posts back. If I could

change it, I would. I don't like to upset anyone. In regard to the

shots themselves, I am quite pleased with them as is my friend

and model. Your disparaging remarks are meaningless. I've

seen your work.

[douglas k.]

"Your disparaging remarks are meaningless. I've seen your work."

 

Ah, that old argument. So if a well-respected, widely-published photography critic like A.D. Coleman, or Janet Malcolm, or Susan Sontag commented critically on your photos, you'd casually disregard their comments since none of them even attempt to make photos? That ad hominem attack tactic (I dislike your photos so I will disregard, without consideration, your negative comments) is nonsense. The same insecure people who apply this faulty (and ego-protecting) argument probably never scrutinize the portfolios of those people who offer POSITIVE comments.

[paulstenquist]

I generally look at the portfolio of anyone who comments,

positively or negatively. And I generally agree that there is no

direct relationship between the quality of one's work and his or

her ability to offer a valuable critique. I just felt that your comment

was somewhat mean-spirited and out of line, so I spat back.

[cd thacker]

Hilarious. For your next series, might I suggest you try putting her in blackface? Some watermelon rinds strewn about, a large chicken leg in her hand (make that two), a bottle of gin nearby. Should be a real thigh slapper. Great fun. Then, maybe something with an Oriental slant. You and your actress have a whole world of hilarity ahead of you.

[paulstenquist]

There is no connection between the kind of crap you are

suggesting and the photos I have posted here. The trailer park

shots are an accurate representation of a real life style. No black

face, no extreme stereotyping. Your post is disgusting. My work

is not.

[dennis_couvillion]

"For your next series, might I suggest you try putting her in blackface? Some watermelon rinds strewn about, a large chicken leg in her hand (make that two), a bottle of gin nearby. Should be a real thigh slapper. Great fun. Then, maybe something with an Oriental slant."

 

Really, don't you think that's a bit of a stretch? You guys are as tense a trailer park in tornado season. Jeeez.

Dennis

[douglas k.]

"The trailer park shots are an accurate representation of a real life style."

 

Paul, I offer this as something to consider, and am sincerely NOT trying to be inflammatory. Your comment above, tied with the photos, raises an interesting phenomenon. The "lifestyle" you've depicted, as far as I can tell, involves (1) hanging around, (2) drinking beer, and (3) smoking cigarettes. The photos depicting this lifestyle are titled "Trailer Park Trash." But aren't leisure time, alcohol, and smoking enjoyed by people across the socio-economic spectrum? In suburbia the actors might be drinking microbrews or wine instead of Budweiser, and they might be lounging about in more upscale surroundings (say, on a deck rather than outside a mobile home), but wouldn't the lifestyle activities be similar? In fact, when I was her age, my friends and I spent much of our leisure time just hanging around, drinking beer, and smoking (not tobacco, but you get the idea). Yet, no one would have called us "trash": we were all college-educated, held good jobs, lived in nice homes, etc. So it seems unlikely that her actual activities inspired the word "trash" in the subject line.

 

So why, when depicting a woman doing these things next to a trailer, does the word "trash" come into play? Since these activities are rather common, the label "trash" seems inspired only by the trailer park surroundings, which is painting with a pretty broad brush, isn't it? That's why I object to your title and your cavalier defenses of it.

[mike dixon]

Dennis, I'm afraid she's already over the hill at the ripe old age of 18.<P>

<i>People say that I'm no good, crazy as a loon<br>

'Cause I get stoned in the mornin,' get drunk in the afternoon<br>

Kinda like an ole blue tick hound, I like to lie around in the shade<br>

And I got much of nothing at all, but I damn sure got it made . . .</i><p>

--Charlie Daniels, "Long-Haired Country Boy"

[dennis_couvillion]

Mike. 18?? You sure? She don't have that "rode hard and put up wet" look. Maybe you just take good pictures. ;>)

 

Dennis

[robert_m_johnson]

<div></div>

[dennis_couvillion]

Just out of curiosity, how many of the offended folks here have ever even been inside a mobile home, let alone known anybody who lived in one?

[bobtodrick]

18 years Dennis...born till I left for University....your point?

[douglas k.]

"Just out of curiosity, how many of the offended folks here have ever even been inside a mobile home, let alone known anybody who lived in one?"

 

Me.

[al_kaplan1]

Dennis, I was last inside a mobile home day before yesterday, visiting an elderly (81 years)lady I've known for over 20 years. She lives on Social Security and food stamps. College educated, she's hardly trash, just a product of an unfortunate series of events.

 

Let's all decide to just end this lousy thread now and get back to more important things, like the big Fondlers Vs. Users game.

[dennis_couvillion]

"College educated, she's hardly trash, just a product of an unfortunate series of events."

 

Well, that is my point...well, sort of. I've known many people who lived in mobile homes, usually in rural areas. I knew a dentist, someone who raised horses, a guy who made prosthetics, etc., etc. Not everybody who lives in a trailer is "trailer trash", and I don't think that's what Paul was trying to say. However, I have met some pretty trashy people who live in trailers, too.

 

Fact is mobile homes, rightly or wrongly, have become a symbol of cheap, tacky Americana in some circles. Fact is there are many people who are, maybe, undereducated, undermotivated, under-achiever types who live in dilapidated conditions, sometimes in trailers. Some of these folks may just be unlucky, or maybe they made really poor decisions in life, too. Maybe they got involved with drugs. Regardless, trailer trash is one of those American expressions, like it or not, commonly used to describe some of these people. You are likely to hear it in a movie or read it in a magazine article, because it describes a recognizable type and it is not an offensive race-based expression.

 

Fact is, Paul's picture was right on the money in capturing that. It's not just the wardrobe and the props, it's the look and expression of the girl. Her expression exudes abject dead-endism. Plainly speaking, this gal looks like she's going nowhere fast. Unless she hits the lottery, this about as good as it's gonna get for her. However, she's ready party all night with you, or spit in your eye if you piss her off.

 

As sad as poverty is, there is nevertheless (rightly or wrongly) a comical aspect to this stereotype that is lampooned in books, movies and television all the time. I've known some characters who fit the description quite well, regardless whether they lived in a trailer or a beat up apartment complex. And, they were usually pretty funny people who were comfortable with their position in life. Perfectly happy with the rusted out Ford pickup and the disaility check every month.

 

I just think some people got a little too worked up over Paul's pictures. And maybe, just maybe, some of those people have no earthly idea what "trailer trash" is, but just "knee-jerked" reacted to a politically incorrect expression.

 

I just think Paul took too much heat...

 

Dennis

[chris_hawkins]

I'm from Appalachia. My grandma lived in a trailer the last 20 years of her life. I lived in one for 6 months. I'm friends with a few people you might call white trash or trailer park trash. If I called you a nigger, whop, spic, faggot, hooknose Jew, etc., would you think it funny? I guess it would be OK if I told you later it was a joke.

 

I've got a request for you. Come visit me and I'll take you down to a trailer park where I've got some friends. Since trailer park trash "is not necessarily a derogatory term" you call them that and see what happens. If this is too much for you, check out the following book "The REDNECK MANIFESTO: HOW HILLBILLIES HICKS AND WHITE TRASH BECAME AMERICAS SCAPEGOATS" by Jim Goad. This would help you understand a few things.