Leica M7 or MP?

[andy_eulass]

I dunno, I guess I'd defer to some of these guys, but I have an MP and I'm happy as I can be with it. I also own an M6 Classic which I also love but the MP is my preferred camera to use. The one thing that really leaps out at me about the MP is the viewfinder which is absolutely awesome in low-light situations. I spent a couple of nights during the carnage of the Cubs' collapse at Wrigley Field using both my M6 and MP and found that the MP was far superior for being able to get a bead on something and focus it accurately. I guess the M7s are now being fitted with the MP viewfinder, but I'm not sure. The other thing is that the MP, as far as I can see, is built like a brick sh*thouse. Though I wasn't happy about it, my MP took a couple of whacks while wading through the crowd at Wrigley Field and it was fine. I'm sure you'll be fine with either the M7 or the MP but my preference was for the MP.

 

By the way, I'm not sure what this price issue is that some of the others are talking about. Last time I checked the B&H website, the MP and M7 were priced exactly the same. No getting around it though, they both are expensive and aren't likely to get cheaper unless the Dollar rebounds against the Euro in a serious way, which is unlikely anytime soon from what I can see.

 

Good luck with your search. Whatever you buy, I hope it brings you as much joy as my Leicas have brought me.

[jerry_freeman1]

Mitch Alland ask:

 

<Do you mean that Gibson still uses the DR Summicron?>

 

who knows what gibson is doing today. :) the most recent article i read hinted to as

much, and deus ex machina says he has a preference for that lense...jf

[cp]

Charlie,

 

1. Borrow, rent each -

 

2. Shoot

 

3. Decide for yourself...

 

 

Cheers,

[feli]

New the MP and M7 are the same price, at least at places like photovillage.com.

 

You are more likely to find a used M7 than an MP. Beware that a used M7 will

probably have the old style finder, which is not flare proof. Is that the end of the

world? No. Is the flare annoying when it happens? Yes, but it hasn't stopped people

from shooting with M cameras for the last 30 years. You can have the finder

upgraded by Leica to the MP standard, but at the moment there is a long waiting list.

 

I think the choice depends on how much automation you are accustomed to. If you

usually shoot AE Nikon, you will probably find the MP slow to use. If you shoot fast

faced action, like weddings etc I would go for the M7.

 

I've shot both of them. Both are extremely well built. The MP feels smoother than my

M6TTL and pretty much identical to my M2. The guts of the MP are a refined iteration

of what's in previous M4-2/M6 cameras, re-engineered for smoother operation. I

have found this to be true in comparison to my M6TTL (which had a recent CLA) and

IMHO it's the smoothest M since the M4/M5.

 

If the price of either the MP or M7 is too steep I would suggest a M6 classic or M6TTL.

I like the TTL, because of the large shutter speed dial and the TTL flash support, but

either one is a great deal if you want an M with a meter. If you can live without the

meter I would suggest an M2 or M4. If you use the 35mm focal length, I would skip

the M3, because it only has frame-lines for 50/90/135. If you decide on one of the

older M cameras, factor in $200-300 to get it cleaned.

 

I would suggest you try to rent one of each or at least handle them in person.

 

 

Feli

[steve_barnett2]

"who knows what gibson is doing today. :)"

 

For anybody who wants to see what I think are a pretty wonderful set of new Gibson images get the new 'Leica Lens Book', free from any good Leica dealer if you have spent enough with them (so maybe rules out mail order cheapskates). Black and white photo's of the Leica production line. Superb!

 

As to MP or M7. As an owner of both I would say the M7 for everyday practicality, and the MP for joy of use.

[charlie_fox1]

Thanks guys for the responses so far. I have played with a M7 and MP in a camera store, I seem to like the feel of the MP.

 

Another question for MP users. If we use "manual aperture priority" as suggested in the post ie setting the aperture and then then dialing the shutter speed according to the meter, is there any ability to increase half or 1/3rd of the the shutter speeds? Would this be an issue with slide films? May be an option is to change the film speed instead!!! I undertstand with M7 the shutter speed is is stepless in aperture priority. That is why I miss this in MP but still I like the traditional feel of MP. Any ideas that Leica might incorporate this in to MP????

[Robin Smith]

Charlie

 

Intermediate speeds are possible with the MP but clearly it is not continuous like on the M7. Actually I shoot slide film and don't really use intermediate speeds at all (except the marked 1/50th) on my M6TTL- to no detriment as far as I can see. I am not sure you really need to worry about this issue. It seems to me to be more theoretical than actual.

[james_.1]

Go all the way into the Leica M philosophy/tradition- get the MP.

[thomas_moraitis]

From the Leica MP manual, chapter "Shutter speed dial": <i>Intermediate values may not be used</i>.<p>The apperture ring has only 1/2 stop increments.

[steve_barnett2]

Charlie, no intermediate shutter speeds on the MP. But, in real world shooting judging where to meter from to get your 1/3rd stop variations is just as much a problem whether you are using an M7 or MP. Slide film does have some small latitude, and if it was down to 1/3rd stop being important you should be bracketing to ensure an accurate exposure using MP, M7 (on Auto), Canon EOS 1v, or Nikon F100 etc even with their fancy metering patterns.. So I would say its not important in itself, but the meter on the MP is more sensitive than previous Leica meters and this does help get a positive feel to the exposure.

[ray .]

M7.

 

Rob F., I was going to politely correct your notion the camera didn't have AE lock, but Jay rudely beat me to it. And people find that kind of response entertaining? Weird.

[charlie_fox1]

Hi Thomas,

 

Thanks for the information. I think I saw in Erwin's site somwhere that inbetween shutter speed setting is unreliable in MP.

 

Coming from Nikon I did not realise that aperture has 1/2 stop increments!!!! That would be nice.

 

Thanks everyone again for the help. I am inclined towards MP at this stage. I will start to save for it rather than using any cards.

[greg_mason]

charlie:

 

good luck on your purchase. FWIW i will toss in my two cents worth. this site is filled with people who after using slr's could never get used to using a rangefinder. this is a lot of money to spend unless you are sure.

 

your big decision is not really what camera to get as both are excellent, but what lens to get with it. i would recommend getting one lens and shooting with it exclusively before even contemplating another lens purchase. this site is probably evenly split between 50mm and 35mm. i have found that my slr use was not a reliable guide as i tend to shoot mostly 50mm and longer with my slr, and 50mm and shorter with my rangefinder.

 

one last thought. my mechanical leicas are some thing i use and treasure and based on leica history history i am sure that 50 years from now they will still have plenty of mileage left in them to pass on. any thing mechanical can be fixed, just search ebay to see the number of 50 year old M3's still floating around any thing electronic is only as good as long as the electronic parts are still available. the cle, for example is a nice little camera that no longer has electronic parts support. regardless of what ever happens to leica or to film, yuo will most likely always be able to get a MP repaired.

 

greg

[Rob F.]

People keep hinting that the parts to repair an M7 won't be available when needed at some point. Is there any more reason to worry about this with the M7, than with my Nikon FE2, or an N90, or an R5 or R9, etc? Is the concern that Leica will go out of business? Or that the M7 is such a low-production item that it won't be supported? These are the various concerns that I can imagine, but I don't know how to determine if they are realistic. Who has a input on this?

[cameron_sawyer]

Dear Rob F:

 

I share your puzzlement. I cannot imagine that it will be any more difficult to repair an M7 20 years from now than it will be to repair an M6 or an MP. PCB's have come a long way since Minolta CLE days, and they are inherently more reliable than mechanical systems anyway. The M7 will likely be around for a long, long time (the M6 was in production for what, 18 years?) and surely there will be a good stock of spare parts when they finally stop.

 

I have an F3 with electronic shutter which is nearly 20 years old. It has never needed service and is still dead accurate (electronic shutters are inherently much more accurate than mechanical ones), and I don't ever hear about Nikon users running around obsessing about future parts or repairs.

[Robin Smith]

I believe the MP shutter can be set in intermediate speeds, but the point is you will not know exactly what you will get except that it will be intermediate. You cannot meter with the speed in a non-clicked-stopped position which makes using it more difficult perhaps. The shutter is essentially the same as all other earlier Ms.

[Rob F.]

During our outing today with the LHSA, I spoke with Christian Erhardt, of Leica Northvale. Christian's input was that under German law, they have to provide spare parts for at least 10 years after a product ceases production. He added that while he can't predict whether the PCB in question will be available in a 30 to 40 year time span, that it would certainly be available in a 20 to 30 year range. He pointed out that anything less than that would be to Leica's detriment.

 

I don't think we have to worry about the M7 being supported.

[cd thacker]

One thing, Charlie, particularly nice, is that no matter which one you choose, you'll very likely be thrilled. But, if you've been relying on AE with your F3, what makes you think you'll be happy, once the initial tingle subsides, with your pricey new Leica if AE isn't there? <p>

 

Some people are AE shooters. Sounds like you might be one of them. Are you righthanded? Imagine writing a book with your left hand. That's probably what learning to shoot without AE will be like for you.<p>

 

So, you might want to reconsider your seeming preference for the MP. The M7 offers, in addition to the AE option, more accurate shutter speeds - and is in no wise a departure from Leica tradition. (And this is coming from an MP fan! But then I don't use AE.)

[karl_keung]

Leica is the pinnacle achievement of a bygone era, it is about class and individuality, it is

an aristocrat treading a lonely path. Photography is for the owner a slow yet rewarding

experience, it is just like how it is being made in the Solms factory. If you want things

automatic, you should look elsewhere, especially in the digital realm. In Leica world you

find something eternal and golden. You compose using quill fountain pen, not typing it

out using a computer with spellcheck. We all need something that give us a break from the

modern day hussle.

If I want something quick, I use Nikon D2H (or other similar gear from Canon etc), but I

want to reflect the things around me, I take out my MP.