cliff_henry Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Here's an Oct. 21st Reuters article by Franklin Paul. It seems all are not happy at big yellow. There are several more articles posted today. To see them just do a search from www.reuters.com for Kodak. www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3660313 Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 There's an <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=006I19">active thread</a> on this on the General Forum. Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_lee2 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Cliff, I know you are merely performing a public service so this is not directed at you, but you know what, big deal...I don't understand any of this 'film is dead' nonsense. What a load of crap. Film, chemicals, and film cameras will continue to be around for a long time, even if demand and availability taper somewhat. <i>If</i> Kodak goes under---and that's a big if---I'm just gonna switch over to Ilford, who, if I recall correctly, actually reported an increase in sales in recent years (I think I read it in the UK magazine Black and White Photography). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_baker___heidelberg_ Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 For what is worth, I collect old US postage stamps. Since I was a kid everyone said that with technology, there would be no need to make them anymore. But, the US issues more stamps now than ever before, although in smaller numbers. Since I have specialized in an area that is far past due, I enjoy the hobby more than ever. No new issues to keep up with, just what I like and have fun collecting. Leicas and film are becoming a lot like stamps, i.e. very little new stuff out there.<br><br> Leicas and film may indeed go out of production, but there will always be a hobbiest market, so enjoy what you can. If you decide that digital will break your bank or your heart, start collecting stamps. Trust me, you'll still go broke, but will have a ball doing so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_lee2 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I think Kevin articulated my thoughts better than I did. But whereas he's saying that film may go out of production, I'm saying that precisely <i>because</i> there is a hobbyist or niche market for film photography, film won't die (it may sort of wheeze along, sure), although it may or may not become very expensive. There's no question that digital will very soon overtake film in the photo <i>industry</i>, if it hasn't happened or isn't happening already, but to say film and paper will be gone for good is like saying paint and canvas will be gone, charcoal will be gone, and so forth...at least in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricks Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Kodak's troubles has less to do with the decline of film (especially 35mm) than poor managmenet of the company. Shareholders demand growth in a company. Needless to say, film manufacturing is not a growth business anymore and competition is fierce. Some shareholders are simply questioning the manner in which this belated 180 turn from the management is taking place. Sounds healthy to me. Kokak should have put a larger emphasise on digital 3+ years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_conboy1 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Unmentioned in some of the articles is that Kodak today announced that they have agreed to purchase a 20% stake in Lucky Film Co. Ltd., China's largest film manufacturer. Film isn't dead, nor is it dying. For Kodak, film is a cash cow that needs to be milked in order to help them become a player in digital imaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_. Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Film is dying, it is going to go away. But I reject the notion that getting into digital will save Kodak...the company that brought us the Disc Camera and APS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_.1 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Probably in the year 3000 film will be gone. Jay, I guess you have more waiting to do before you get to dance on its grave. ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob haight Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 When you are out, ie, not on the computer, take a look in places where people usually carry cameras, tourist type areas or sporting events, etc. and look at the types of cameras people are carrying and using. Decide for yourself where the market is, firsthand, and don't pay much attention to what you read here on this issue. Your own eyes can answer the question. You then will know where the industry is and where its headed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry_rory Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I enjoy writing letters to people. I like specialist cotton rag, acid free paper and envelopes (from Wookey in Somerset UK). I enjoy using my fountain pen and black ink. The postage costs quite a bit if I write a lot of letters and it is slow (at least a day or two) compared to e-mail or the phone. It takes a long time to write a thoughtful letter and I have to take care of my hand writing and speeling and grammar. Phones, e-mail, texting etc are all faster more superior (technologically) and more relevant to today's society. But who cares? The paper upon which I write will keep for hundreds of years, the time and care I have to take writing the letter gives me more time to think of the subject and the person I am writing to. The pen I write with is the technology of a previous era but is a thing of fine engineering and beauty that I love to hold and use. Millions of shops still sell pens and paper and envelopes and stamps and almost every single nation on earth has a postal service. And despite being so archaic, writing a letter in such a way (even using fine materials) can be cheaper than a phone call or a fax. I predict the same fate for film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_. Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Well I guess all the people that are going to keep buying film to keep it alive better get offline and go outside where they can be seen because like Bob, I haven't seen more than one person in a hundred not using a digital and my local camera store says the only people buying film cameras and film are high-school photography class students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorin Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 People in US keep forgetting that they represent at most 4% of the world population. In countries where people make $50-200 a month, they're not going to spend $200-1000 for a camera. But they still take pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_rivera5 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Patrick hits on what I've been saying all along, shareholders will not tolerate declining porfits and market share. Resources will have to be moved to other products and away from film. And film sales don't have to drop 50% in one year, reduced sales over a few years (maybe even 5-10%) will cause companies to move capital to other products. Look, no one can argue that film isn't profitalbe in the sense that if I make 1 million rolls I can sell it at a profit. It's just that the year to year sales are going to start to go down. The shareholders won't tolerate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_rivera5 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Sorin, Digital cameras are going to very cheap, very soon. It's much simpler to get a computer to spit out inkjets in a developing area than it is to plumb in a minilab. I don't buy the argument that the developing world is going to save film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_barnett2 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 "I haven't seen more than one person in a hundred not using a digital and my local camera store says the only people buying film cameras and film are high-school photography class students" What you don't see Jay is what isn't under your nose. The rest of the world in other words. It remains that even after the whole of the USA goes digital, and you can't buy one single 35mm film, the rest of the world will still be using film in large numbers. You have a parochial attitude that mis-informs and takes its lead from 'headline news'. The general continued use of film, in the world, is also matched by the re-emergence of the traditional arts of B&W in the 1st world. So if its not happening in your local store, so be it, but broadcasting the opposite is absurd. A case to think about. If in ten years time it looked like nobody in your town needs fillings in their teeth, and the whole of the USA had perfect teeth, would you now be pulling your hair out and saying your time was up? Or would you, or your dental colleagues, just move to Mexico? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_peterson1 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I grew up and lived in Rochester for 30 years. Kodak has been on the ropes for at least that long. They've always been morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_.1 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Jay Jay Jay, tsk tsk! Didn't you read my last posts regarding this matter? As I said before, CURRENTLY film and digital camera sales are on a ratio of 1:1. You must live in silicon valley. Southern Cali maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_Lai Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Trevor<p>What pen do you use? I use a fountain pen everyday, as it saves my hand from cramps. But then, I do a lot of writing in my work as a physician. I do use ballpoints, but only when I have to make multiple copies on the multipart forms. (what ever happened to carbon paper?) The pen that I use is a Namiki Vanishing Point. It has a ballpoint pen - like ability to advance or retract the nib by pushing in a plunger at the base. This saves time from having to cap / uncap. Thus, even in the world of fountain pens, some things do advance.<p>As for film, if Kodak stops making it all together, I guess we can still buy Fuji, Ilford, Agfa, and some of that Chinese film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_rivera5 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Steve, I see it in Southern Califonia, I saw it all along my drive up to Portland OR this summer, my brother reports the same thing in MI. Ok, maybe not in your neck of the woods, but digital is growing everywhere I've been in the last year. And it would appear Kodak's come to the same conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_rivera5 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 James, 1:1 camera sales equals declining film sales. Do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_.1 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 BFD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_.1 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Jeffy, you're putting an implication in my post. It's not there. 1:1 is a far cry from "only high schoolers" buying film cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_barnett2 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 "I see it in Southern Califonia, I saw it all along my drive up to Portland OR this summer, my brother reports the same thing in MI" Exactly my point, a small worlders parochial view. There is a bigger picture, a larger format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_.1 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 The obsession with film staying or going is a manifestation of a trait of Leica shooters I've concluded. A lot of us are neurotic A/R silly-mongers. Sad really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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