Help me choose a Leica

[brambor]

I would like to set a target for purchasing a Leica outfit and your

advice is greatly appreciated. Here is what I think I want:

 

1.) No batteries in the body. That probably means no metering and

I'm fine with that.

 

2.) All metal parts and hopefully the most durable and least prone

to breakdowns

 

3.) Ability to take the best 'standard' lens Leica made

 

4.) What is the best 'standard' lens Leica made?

 

Thanks for your help.

[charles barcellona www.bl]

Rangfinder or Single Lens Reflex Rene?

[torben_daltoft]

Couldn´t have a SLR without a battery, could he?

[john_boyle3]

Your specifications would limit you to an M2, M3 or M4 with a late 50mm Summicron f2 lens. The newer rangefinder Leicas as well as the reflex Leicas all have built-in meters which require batteries. The next factor to consider is which other lenses you may want to use. The M2 has frames for the 35-50-90mm lenses, the M3 has frames for 50-90-135mm lenses and the M4 has frames for 35-50-90-135mm lenses.

I've used an M2 and M4 for over 30 years and my preference is the M2.

I'm sure you will find other recommendations on this thread. The next step is to find one for sale in good condition. On the other hand, you may want to consider a new MP or M7, both of which have behind-the-lens meters and require batteries. I doubt that you will find universal agreement as to which is the "best" Leica M.

[steve_barnett2]

Buy an M6 and take the batteries out. Buy a current Summicron or Summilux 50mmm.

[chris_henry1]

Any M6, M6TTL or MP body can have the batteries left out; you will lose metering

capability, but you could always change your mind later. The current 50/2

Summicron would be your lens choice.

[brambor]

Rangefinder or SLR ? - I don't care. Since I haven't used a rangefinder I would not mind having one just to enhance that experience.

 

Why not batteries? - I know I can take them out and I might change my mind about this but I use old Konica T1 cameras without the batteries and it still irks me that there is an ON button that I do not turn on. :-) I know this sounds kind of weird but we all have our 'special ways'...

[blakley]

In this case you can still get a new Leica - the MP's "off" switch is just the "B" setting - so you won't even know you have an "on/off" control if you take the batteries out. You will have a circular battery door on the front of the camera, but it won't bother you that much. However, if you don't need a 28mm frameline in the viewfinder, you'd be better off with an M2, M3, or M4. I love the M3.

[jay_.]

<<Rangefinder or SLR ? - I don't care. Since I haven't used a rangefinder I would not mind having one just to enhance that experience.>>

 

That statement suggests to me you haven't thought this through very well. Get a hold of a Leica rangefinder and use it for a few rolls before you take that plunge.

[charles barcellona www.bl]

Rene, each of us has our preferences, but all the Leica M's are good, battery or not.

 

The main differences in the M line are as follows -

MDa other oddities - forget those

 

M1 - no rangfinder respectively, so forget them

M2 - frames for 35/50/90 lenses .72 magnifcation viewing

M3 - frames for 50/90/135 lenses, .93 magnificatoin viewing

M1,M2,M3 - all are spool loading, and have thimble rewind, may or may not have selftimers, or frame selectors. Rewind release vary's from button to lever. None have meters.

 

M4 - frames for 35/50/90/135 lenses .72 magnifcation viewing

M4 included self timer, CRANK rewind, quick load, no meter.

 

M4-2 - same as M4 with no selftimer.

M4-2 has its detractors as Leica had some bad ones. However any can be made good by a repairman, and like the M1,M2,M3,M4 before it, ought to be considered for overhaul anyway.

 

M4-P - same as M4-2 but with 28/35/50/75/90/135 frames.

 

M5 - a larger body M, .72 magnification, first with built in meter, a commercial flop now considered collectable. You probably dont want this as a starter.

 

M6 - an M4-P with a meter

 

M6-TTL - an M6 with slightly better meter and TTL flash

 

M7 - basically an auto exposure M6-TTL with electronic shutter (needs batteries except for 2 speeds)

 

MP (current) - M6 with M3 rewind thimble and lower flare viewfinder.

 

My suggestion to you is to go find a used camera in not too shabby shape, whose dealer will stand behind it for functioning. Make sure the viewfinder/rangfinder is clear and bright. Pay perhaps a little more because its from a dealer, but... since you're new to Leica, get the customer service that the dealer offers. I also suggest you look at several cameras before making your decision.

 

Lenses - You want a standard lens, so thats 50mm. You really cant go wrong with one of the 50 Summicron lenses. They're plentyful and fairly inexpensive. When getting a lens used, again I suggest a dealer. Make sure the glass is good. Shine a small flashlight from behind the lens and make sure there is no fungus, scratches, seperation etc in the lens. Dust cannot be avoided. Make sure the lens focuses smoothly and brings up the correct frame lines on the camera. Try to get the correct hood and caps for the lens at the same time.

 

Your local dealer is going to have to be someone you trust. Shop around a little, compare prices and dealerships. Do business with someone who stands behind the product. On a used camera, try to get a return policy for say... at least two weeks. Bring the camera to another dealer and have them check all functions. One nice way of doing this, and I personally did it hundreds upon hundreds of times when I was in the camera business, is to get some film, and politely ask them to load it for you and check the camera. If they're not busy, usually a full service dealer will do that for you. Go there at an off hour. Shoot lots of pictures, make sure the focus is correct by shooting some closeups with the lens wide open. Shoot at all shutter speeds and make sure the exposures are even across the frame. In short test the camera for proper function, then enjoy it!

[h._p.]

You have to bear in mind that any advice you get here will be pretty biased - which is not necessarily a bad thing. Me, I've got an M3 with a 50mm Summicron and a 90mm Elmar which works pretty well for my needs. I like the big viewfinder (x.91) and the lovely feel of all that brass under the chrome. And it makes a lovely noise. And what's more, I think it's the prettiest 'M'. The pictures are pretty sharp, too :-)<div></div>

[matt_m__toronto_]

get an m2 so that you have 35mm framelines built in. unless you're sure that you're going to be using the 50mm for 95% of your work, or you don't mind an external finder for the 35mm lenses, then get an m3. forget the m6's, if you don't want batteries or meter, why spend the extra $ to have it available.

 

my $0.02 cdn.

[brambor]

Jay - yes I did not think it through 100% but I know 2 things: I have SLR's (Konica and Canon) that I don't plan on abandoning so getting a rangefinder will add more variety to my photography hobby. After all so many people stiill swear by it it's not like switching to pinhole camera. Second I would like to ue the camera a my compact/take everywhere camera. I lug two bags of camera in my car most of the time but being able to put something special in my pocket would be a pleaure.In't 2.0 too slow? I find I have to go about 1.4 indoors for candids.Rb

[brambor]

What is the price range for a functional M2 body?

[vahe_sahakian]

For M Leicas your choice comes down to the lenses, if you are mostly into wide angle and nomals then M2 may be your best bet, if you prefer nomal to telephotos then M3 would be more appropriate. I have several M3's and primarily use 90 and 135mm lenses for mostly landscape work.

If you prefer the SLR, my suggetion is to consider Nikon F2, all manual, and is built like Leica M3, solid and dependable, and there are lots of good manual lenses available for it.

[gary_pinkerton1]

Leicaflex SL/SL2 [even R6/R6.2] can certainly still be used without batteries if you lean toward an SLR. Also, the current Summicron-R and Summilux-R are [probably] as good as it gets in a 50.

[lutz]

What Steve and Chris said. Get an M6. There's 25-30 more years of life left in them. A decent M2 goes for about USD 600 if you're lucky and you will find M6s these days for under USD 1000. A 50 or 35 'cron is the standard lens of choice, find used samples at about USD 500 if lucky. To get a decent 50 'lux expect to pay USD 800, a used 35 lux asph (only tack sharp 1.4 variety of that length) goes for USD 1000. Don't dismiss the Cosina Voigtlaenders as an alternative. They go for less, new. But, most importantly, rent a rangefinder for a day before you invest into one.

[brambor]

There is a personal ad in our local paper for Leica II (d) with with 50mm #.5 Elmar lens made in 1934 and an adjutable Elmar hood - all for $700.00 I wonder if I should look into that but the lens sound pretty slow for my taste but that's the way they were probably made in 1934.

[doug_hagerman]

Need a pretty big pocket for an M camera... And a collapsable lens...

[brambor]

Right. I got a soft chuckle reading your response. The pockets get bigger when winter comes around in our neck of the woods. My parka will take the camera easily. But seriouly, I think that I can have it in my soft briefcase, or glove compartment, parka and so on...

[Rob F.]

How about an M4P. It's an M6 without batteries. I agree with the others about the 50mm Summicron. However, the older Summicrons, like the "rigid" model, are sturdier. My 69/79 Summicron's front section loosened up and had to go to Sherry for repairs. I mention this because you seem concerned with reliability.

[greg_mason]

every one else put in there two cents worth so i will probably put in mine. i shoot my slrs at 50mm and longer and my M cameras primarily at 50mm and shorter. you will probably find this forum evenly split between the 35mm and the 50mm as your only lens on an M. i started with an M3 then i picked up an m6ttl. both cameras get used. please remember that m2 and m3"s are going to be 50 years old and and cost around $600 plus another $150 or so for a cla. a m6 or m6ttl will prbably be found for $1000 - $1200 and will be much more recent. there are times when there is nothing better than an old m3 in my hands, however being realistic my m6ttl will most likely be the one handed down to my grandchildren 40 or 50 years from now. please take the comments about checking out a rangefinder seriously. this forum contain s quite a few threads about people who have spent a lot of money only to find out they do not like rangefinders. there are other less expensive rangefinders which can be found at a fraction of the price, if all you are looking at is an experiment. i actually started on a contax IIIa.

[d._p.1]

one thing i didnt realize when i bought my m2 + 50/2.0: it only focusses down to 1 meter. A lot of the portraits i make with my old nikon gear are taken at considerably less than a meter from the subject. I like the slight distortion that gives a face. It's impossible with the leica M. But I'm hooked anyway: the sound and feel of the shutter are incomparable - it makes you forget you're there to make a photo. And then the lens...

[george_shihanian]

One other option for you if you want to maintain pocketability and save a bit of money in order to see if rangefinder cameras are for your taste, is the Leica CL and 28,40,or 90 lenses. You could probably get a body and the 40 and 90 lenses for under $1000. Big BUT- they need a (mercury) battery and the lenses are f4. (the 28 is a 2.8). But, it is a lot of fun, and a lot of camera in your hand. If you decide later to get more heavily involved with a different camera, (M3, 4, 6 or 7)the CL is easy for you to sell on the used market.

[doug herr]

For a Leica SLR the SL is your best bet. The camera is solid, excellent service is avaiable from Leica and independant service technicians, the on/off switch is hidden in the film advance lever, the viewfinder is among the best if not THE best ever made in a 35mm SLR, and you can use inexpensive but excellent 2-cam lenses and many superb 3-cam lenses. The late-model 50mm Summicron-R is a bargain among Leica lenses: inexpensive (for a Leica lens), sharp, rich color saturation, bettering the M lens in flare control.<P>

If you can live without a full-focussing viewscreen the original Leicaflex Standard is also a good camera and typically cheaper than the SL. Compared with the SL it has a true mirror lock-up instead of a depth-of-field preview. However it will always have a dumb meter cell and battery cover staring you in the face, and the viewscreen is difficult to use with f/4.0 or slower lenses.