Dust on DSLR sensor: zooms vs. primes

[yuri_wolf]

Dust on sensor is a fact of life in DSLR photography (refs <A

HREF="http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/1ds/1700-

frames.shtml">M. Reichmann</A>, <A

HREF="http://www.bythom.com/cleaning.htm">T. Hogan</A>). The general

wisdom is to have the camera off and pointing down when switching

lensdes and to switch lenses as little as possible. Simplistic

reasoning would suggest using (hyper-)zooms to satisfy the latter

requirement. However, there is a strong opinion that "zooms suck in

lots of air and hence dust" (post by Puppy Face in Canon EOS Forum <A

HREF="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?

msg_id=005qJE">thread</A>).<BR><BR>

 

My question is to DSLR users who shoot outdoors: <B>how shooting with

primes (switching lenses often) compares with zooms (air getting in

and out of the lens due to the volume change) in terms of dust?

</B><BR><BR>

 

Currently I shoot with a Nikon film SLR and a small collection of

Nikkor and Sigma zooms and primes (I am not a pro). Even with zooms I

tend to switch lenses fairly often in the field, so I expect problems

when going digital.<BR><BR>

 

For the record: I am aware of numerous optical, technical and

aesthetical aspects of zooms vs. primes comparison (thanks to

photo.net, in part). Many threads already cover the topics on whether

shooting only primes will make you a better photographer or if zooms

are really more convenient (e.g. <A

HREF="http://www.photo.net/mjohnston/column20/">ref 1</A>, <A

HREF="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?

msg_id=000wf7">ref 2</A>, <A HREF="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-

a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0059kJ">ref 3</A>, <A

HREF="http://www.photo.net/equipment/canon/28zooms/">ref 4</A> etc.).

If possible, I would like the specific question of letting dust into

a digital camera addressed here.<BR><BR>

 

Thanks,

[bobatkins]

What's the point?

 

It makes no sense at all to chose a lens on the basis of relative probabilities of getting dust on the sensor unless you simply don't care about the quality of your images. And in that case what does a little dust matter?

 

If the sensor gets dusty, clean it. Problem solved.

[yuri_wolf]

Bob,<BR><BR>

 

<I>What's the point? ... If the sensor gets dusty, clean it. Problem solved.</I><BR><BR>

 

The point is that sensor cleaning, as I understand, is <B>not</B> a field procedure. If the difference is big, it's the difference between a successful and a ruined photoshoot. Is the difference <B>that</B> big? That's my question.<BR><BR>

 

<I>It makes no sense at all to chose a lens on the basis of relative probabilities of getting dust on the sensor unless you simply don't care about the quality of your images.</I><BR><BR>

 

That's not entirely fair. Considerations of weight and handling convenience sometimes force you to chose one system over another despite the differences in optical quality. Horses for courses and all that. Do people who take a minimal kit, say, to take pictures while mountaneering, "simply don't care about the quality of their images"? This is about a trade-off, as everything else.

[bobatkins]

Sure sensor cleaning is a field proceedure. You have to be careful but it's not brain surgery. If you screw up you can ruin the camera, but lots of people do it (myself included). If you're terminally clumsy it's probably something you'd want to avoid though. I've known people on Safari in Africa clean the sensor every day of a 2 week trip.

 

The other 100,000 DSLR users out there don't seem to find this enough of a problem to justify gluing a lens onto their SLR body so dust can't get in.

 

This is like only using brass or copper nails because they won't scratch the face of your hammer. Your camera is a tool. Use it the way it was intended to be used or get the right tool for the job you want to do.

 

If you're that worried about dust, get a Sony 828 or something else with a fixed zoom-lens. Then you'll be able to sleep at night, as well as save money, size and weight.

[yuri_wolf]

<I>Sure sensor cleaning is a field proceedure... lots of people do it (myself included).</I><BR><BR>

 

That's news for me, so far everything I've heard on the subject involved relatively clean environment and AC power source. Thanks for pointing this out. I'll try to look up the references myself (nothing directly relevant among straightforward Google hits, but one can play around with keywords), but would appreciate any first-hand accounts from photonetters.<BR><BR>

 

<I>...to justify gluing a lens onto their SLR body so dust can't get in... Then you'll be able to sleep at night</I><BR><BR>

 

Bob, I understand that you are trying to be sarcastic, but... C'mon, nobody talked about that.<BR><BR>

 

Thanks anyway,

[bobatkins]

There's lots of stuff out there on sensor cleaning. I'm currently wring an article for photo.net on that exact topic. It's pretty easy, but then so is brain surgery (open skull, fix problem, close skull) on a superficial level.

 

You open the shutter, wipe a tissue across the sensor, close the shutter. Simple as that. However, just like in brain surgery, if you make an error the consequences are dire and the details are important.

 

It can be done in the field, though preferably in a hotel room rather than in the middle of the desert in a sandstorm.

 

Suggesting a fixed lens camera isn't entirely a joke. In really adverse environments it might be a smart thing to do. If you're willing to put up with a 28-200 zoom on a DSLR ( which will be a ~45 to ~300 or so on most DSLRs) I don't think you'll lose a lot by using an 8MP digicam with a 28-200 zoom (Sony 828).

[digitmstr]

well, I think the point is the main goal is to take pictures thus, *it* should be the MAIN (or sole) criterion for the equipment choice.

 

Every piece of gear (not only cameras) will have some 'sensitive' areas but, nothing that can't be dealt with 'normally'. If you are worried you can always take the camera to a center and they'll do it for a nominal fee.

 

But the issue still is: which camera suits YOUR shooting needs? Answer that and you'll have solved your 'problem'.

 

I went from a G2 (my first digital camera) to a 10D because I wanted a camera that was more like my EOS3 and more 'professional' than a P&S. I never thought about dust, weight, size, etc... for *me* it was only a matter of getting the 'best' for the budget I had available while being able to use the EOS lenses I already had. in my case, the choice was relatively easy (and somewhat limited since I can't afford the 1Ds...;-P )

 

Since you have Nikon already, you could be well on your way by buying whatever model(s) Nikon has available today (I lost count...) and use the lenses you already have. But, again...your photographic needs should be dictating the lens choice, not any other concern about dust.

[yuri_wolf]

Bob,<BR><BR>

 

<I>I'm currently wring an article for photo.net on that exact topic.</I><BR><BR>

 

Glad to hear that. Then I'll wait for it, maybe the point really <B>is</B> moot (that's what I've asked in the first place).<BR><BR>

 

<I>It's pretty easy, but then so is brain surgery.</I><BR><BR>

 

Believe it or not, when I was regularly working in the field (as opposed to enjoying relatively brief outings for pleasure), a surgeon friend of mine taught me several emergency procedures including limb amputation (in the US this could probably get me in trouble, "but that was in another country; and besides..."). No, we didn't practiced.<BR><BR>

 

Giampiero,<BR><BR>

 

<I>I went from a G2 (my first digital camera) to a 10D because...</I><BR><BR>

 

I was thrilled to learn the story of your photo gear ownership, although I still can't figure out how it answers my original question (or any other question in this thread).<BR><BR>

 

<I>But, again...your photographic needs should be dictating the lens choice, not any other concern about dust.</I><BR><BR>

 

"All generalizations are wrong". Most of us readily admit that concerns about weight, size, weatherproofing, and, not to forget, price do contribute to the choice beyond and above the photographic needs (after all, this is the reason you gave for choosing 10D over 1Ds). Why not dust?<BR><BR>

 

For the record: I am not saying that sensor dusting <B>is</B> a factor one should consider (I, basically, confessed my ignorance on the subject by the very fact of asking the question). I appreciate your desire to help, but please note that I never asked "what lens should I buy?". Reading that I should choose my equipment according to my photographic needs is a good entertainment, but it does not exactly answers my question.

[jon_austin]

I almost hesitate to actually try to answer one of Yuri's questions, but as far as zooms are concerned, my understanding is that lenses whose physical length don't change when zooming (like my Canon 17-40mm f/4L and 70-200mm f/4L) are less susceptible to sucking air/dust into the barrel.

 

I was "aghast" when Bob Atkins wrote about physically touching a digital sensor with a tissue to clean it; I thought from reading my Canon 10D manual that using a blower brush was the preferred (or only recommended) method for (consumer) cleaning of the sensor.

 

I've only felt compelled to brave a cleaning of the sensor in my 10D once, after week long nature hike / photo shoot trip. I only did it after I was safely back home in the A/C, and -- probably more than because the camera needed it -- just to learn how to do it.

[bobatkins]

Let me make this perfectly clear:

 

YOU should not touch the sensor in your DSLR. Canon specifically tell you NOT to touch the sensor, even with a brush. If you touch the sensor, you may scratch it, and if you scratch it then it's pretty much ruined and cannot be repaired. It will have to be replaced and that will be expensive.

 

I have cleaned my sensor. Other people have cleaned their sensors. No scratches resulted. However just because I got lucky or the other people got lucky doesn't mean you will.

 

I'm in two minds whether to publish the article I'm writing. While it may give some people the information they need to do this, it may also result in some people trying it who shouldn't. I'd rather they learned from someone else, not me, then I don't get the blame when they screw up. There are sites on the web that will tell you their particular procedure.

 

My advice to anyone with dust on their sensor is to get it cleaned professionally or use the Canon method of a blower and NO physical contact. This may or may not work, but at least it will cause no permanent damage.

 

Meanwhile, I'll personally clean my own sensor when I need to. That should not be more than once, maybe twice, each year.

 

If you don't stop down past f8 you'll never even see the dust. Even at f11 you'll have a hard time. It will probably show at f16 and smaller apertures. If dust isn't causing a problem (even it it's there), I'd strongly recommend leaving the sensor (and the dust) alone.

[yuri_wolf]

Bob,<BR><BR>

 

<I>I'm in two minds whether to publish the article I'm writing... I'd rather they learned from someone else, not me, then I don't get the blame when they screw up.</I><BR><BR>

 

Please do. Photo.net already has plenty of info to harm "people who shouldn't", don't punish "people who should" because of that.<BR><BR>

 

Anyway, "YOU AGREE THAT YOUR <A HREF="http://www.photo.net/terms-of-use">USE OF THIS SITE</A> IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK"...

[qdb]

The recommended method of cleaning promoted by Fuji and Kodak certainly *does* involve touching the sensor - not with your fingers, of course, but with sensor swabs and a sutiable cleaning fluid such as eclipse. Air alone may dislodge loose dust, and it's fine to try that first, but it won't clean all the visible and persistent blobs away. Done right, you won't damage your sensor.

 

On the lens issue, some lenses have a reputation for letting in more dust than others (in to the lens iteslf, that is), so its a legitimate question. The best Nikkor zooms are weather sealed. Might make a difference to the amount of dust transferred in to the body. But then again, once you have cleaned a sensor a few times, you lose your fear of doing so. I use zooms and primes, and simply don't worry about it.

[digitmstr]

Yuri,

 

being entertained is part of the forum...

 

I mentioned my swtiching gear because it applies to you: I had lenses from a previous camera; I have upgraded my digital camera to one that accept those lenses. You have lenses that can be used on a digital body. To me, at least, it does seem that you are asking which lens to purchase/use (prime VS zoom) keeping dust intake as a sole consideration, in this case.

 

IF so, the best thing to do is look at specific manufacturers for dust/weather seals on the lenses. I use Canon L lenses which are pretty good in that area but, nothing is perfect. So far, I have had no problem with dust using either Zooms or primes outdoors (even though I do quite a few changes during a shoot). A year from now, I may start to notice a problem with dust and, as I have suggested you could do, I will probably take the camera to a Canon center for cleaning. However, it would be very hard to know where the dust came from, specifically (prime or zoom). I have been shooting with zooms a majority of the time without dust problems, so far.

 

I understand what you are asking but, there also implied references to the question which people are addressing.

[donald_choi]

The formula for sensor cleaning is easy:

 

Add 1 part Eclipse Cleaning Solution,

Add 1 part sensor swabs

Add a touch of patience

Add a lot of gentleness

 

It can be done in less than 1 minute. Make sure you do it in a low-dust zone....and watch out that you don't accidently trip the shutter close (that would be a disaster).

 

I used to use my S2 only with primes, but now I primarily shoot with zooms. I find that I have to clean my sensor with equal frequency between the two types of lenses (about once every 1.5 months).

[yuri_wolf]

Giampiero,<BR><BR>

 

<I>To me, at least, it does seem that you are asking which lens to purchase/use (prime VS zoom) keeping dust intake as a sole consideration, in this case... I understand what you are asking but, there also implied references to the question which people are addressing.</I><BR><BR>

 

Fair enough, it can be read this way. I've tried to make my question as direct and literal as possible, but...<BR><BR>

 

Donald,<BR><BR>

 

<I>I used to use my S2 only with primes, but now I primarily shoot with zooms. I find that I have to clean my sensor with equal frequency between the two types of lenses (about once every 1.5 months).</I><BR><BR>

 

Oh! This is the info I've asked for. Thanks!<BR><BR>

 

<I>It can be done in less than 1 minute. Make sure you do it in a low-dust zone....and watch out that you don't accidently trip the shutter close (that would be a disaster).</I><BR><BR>

 

Did you ever have to do it outdoors? Do you normally use in-camera battery or outside power supply?<BR><BR>

 

Thanks,