Help with photoshoot using flash.

[gareth_harper]

I've been asked to take the offical pictures at fairly large public

meeting in Glasgow this week. Those calling the meeting are stuck

for a photographer and I said I'd try and help out.

I'm not a fan of flash guns, I prefer working with B&W film with

natural light, hence I would value the photonetters opions here.

I've got two EOS33's (Elan 7E) and a 420EX flash. Hopefully the hall

will be well lit allowing me to focus OK with hopefully my Tokina 28-

80 f2.8 but I'll have my 50mm f1.8 with me in case the lighting is

desparate. I'll have access to the platform so I should be able to

get reasonably close. I've got some NPH400 which I figure should be

ideal for the job. Basically which metering mode should I select,

centre weighted, evaluative or partial? I don't expect there to be

enougth light for apature priority fill in, so should I go for basic

programe mode, or over to portrait or maybe even sports if one of the

speakers is particulary animated. Does it matter which setting the

sync button is set to? If I get a chance I'll fire off a roll of

film tonight to see how things go. Any advice would be very much

appreicated. Need to get a result.

[minh_thai]

Put your camera in M mode, 1/90, f5.6 and fire away. The flashgun will provide red focus assist light. If the ceiling is low and white you may try to bounce the flash to get more natural lighting as well. M.

[bill_goldman]

I assume the meeting will be in a fairly large hall. I also assume you're primarily going to shoot single individuals as they speak.

 

Using M mode at f/5.6 will guarantee that you get good depth of field. However, since the light from your flash falls off rapidly with distance, your backgrounds are going to go dark.

 

You are better off trying to get as much light on the scene as possible. In that case you should use P mode. It's the most automatic mode and you can concentrate on your subject matter.

It will probably choose a little slower shutter speed and wider aperture but the lighting will look more natural. If you use flash, the camera will use the evaluative metering (E-TTL flash) regardless of the mode you select on your camera.

 

Using bounce flash will result in even more natural lighting but your 420EX may not be up to the job (not enough power for a large room). A StoFen OmniBounce is a very useful device for spreading the light and they are very inexpensive.

 

Good luck.

[steve_dunn2]

<p>P mode is the no-brainer, but if you are aware of the limits of your flash unit's power, I'd suggest M instead, like the first response did. You'll get control over depth of field and shutter speed, whereas P will (assuming low light) use 1/60 and a fairly wide aperture (not sure what it will use with these lenses - probably f/4 or thereabouts), which may or may not be what you want. With 400 film, your flash unit has a guide number of 84 zoomed out to its long end, so perhaps 50-60 (too lazy to look it up) throughout most of its range. You'd have roughly 10m flash range at f/4 or f/5.6, which should be enough.</p>

 

<p>If at all possible, bounce the flash off the ceiling; I have some wedding reception pictures I took for a friend where I did some shots with bounce flash and some with direct flash, and it's like night and day. The bounce flash shots are fairly evenly lit and without harsh shadows; the direct flash shots have the classic deer-in-the-headlights look. Figure your flash range gets cut at least in half this way, depending on the ceiling (height, surface texture, etc.). This won't fix things for a really large group (e.g. if you're at one end of a long table trying to shoot the whole group) but it could help for smaller groups.</p>

 

<p>Flash metering is done based on the currently-selected AF point, so if you're shooting a medium-sized group, putting the AF point somewhere in the middle of the group will help get focus and flash right - front and back rows should be close enough to the plane of focus, and the difference in lighting should be OK. Don't do what I did on one shot, which was to focus on someone in the front row; the back row was clearly not quite sharp and somewhat darker than I'd have liked.</p>

 

<p>Your choice of metering mode doesn't matter - E-TTL is evaluative anyway, and you don't have enough ambient light to worry about what mode ambient will be metered in (which, supposedly, will be evaluative no matter which mode you pick when using E-TTL flash).</p>

 

<p>Assuming, again, that ambient light is insignificant, you needn't worry about animated speakers - the flash burst will be the only real light source and it's quick enough to freeze motion. To be sure, shoot these ones in M mode, at 1/125 and as small an aperture as your flash will let you get away with, to exclude as much ambient light as possible. Don't go above 1/125 or you'll be in high-speed flash sync, which dramatically cuts flash range.</p>

[gareth_harper]

I like the sound of that Minh.

Just did a film test, using centre weighted, evalutive, and partial but if Bill's right Ive just wasted a perfectly good roll of film. Doh! It should still give me some idea of what to expect I guess.

Yup it will be a fairly large hall, yup I would guess the focus will be one speaker at a time, there could possibly be some hecklers maybe of the rather ugly variety. Maybe go for the P mode nut I'll fire off a few in manual to check that method out.

I tried my Tokina out and it focuses really well with the flash in low light, my 70-200fL not so well.

Another thought, as the flash is very short in duration does this mean I can get away with slow shutter speeds with the 70-200 or am I kidding myself. Or maybe stick some Delta 3200 in the other body with the 70-200 fitted?

Thanks for the help so far,

 

Stressed out Gareth!

[gareth_harper]

Thanks Steve, I must have been writing my reply as you posted. More good advice. Not looking for 'fine art' shots just a competent and hopefully loosely entertaining record of the night.

I do suspect the ceiling will be high. I know the building but I'm not familiar with the hall we will be in, just have to wait and see. If it's direct flash then that's what it has to be.

Glad to hear the metering takes into account the focus point, will probably be using the off centre points. Also guess that AI servo is out.

[jim_larson1]

If possible, try some test shots with the actual lighting that will be in the hall.

 

"P" tends to always pick 60 F4. That's nice, but if you want more than one person in focus (ie, wider depth of field), the only recourse is to put the camera into "M" and stop down the aperture.

 

You cannot use AV, since that will pick a shutter based upon ambient light (and be waaaaay too slow to shoot).

 

As others said, use bounce if 1) you are CLOSE and 2) if the cielings are low. If you have the 70-200/4L attached = > that implies your are not close to your subject. In that case FORGET the bounce and FORGET a diffuser: Aim the flash straight at the subject and hope you have enough power to illuminate the subject. :)

 

Regarding metering: Unless the lights are uncomfortably bright, or spot lights are being used, metering is irrelevant. All the meter will tell you (in any mode) is "you need flash". The E-TTL flash unit will take care of the rest.

[ivanskavinsky]

Gareth, I use Manual with partial for those gigs. When there definitely isn't enough

light, I use flash with a Sto-Fen and the set the ambient light to minus 1 stop. You

need to be careful when using the tele but as the flash is the main light source and

the ambient is a fill you should be able to use quite slow speeds and get a mix of

sharp subject and blurred backgound. Use the flash confirmation to check if your

going beyond the range of the flash output.

 

BTW using Fujipress 800 and f2.8, I've had good exposures bouncing a 430 EZ off a

40ft roof! It's worth a go :-)

 

Ivan

[ivanskavinsky]

Gareth, I use Manual with partial for those gigs. When there definitely isn't enough

light, I use flash with a Sto-Fen and the set the ambient light to minus 1 stop. You

need to be careful when using the tele but as the flash is the main light source and

the ambient is a fill you should be able to use quite slow speeds and get a mix of

sharp subject and blurred backgound. Use the flash confirmation to check if your

going beyond the range of the flash output.

 

BTW using Fujipress 800 and f2.8, I've had good exposures bouncing a 430 EZ off a

40ft roof! It's worth a go :-)

 

Ivan

 

See attached.

[gareth_harper]

More very helpful responses. Thanks, you're all brilliant!

 

No time to check out hall etc.. just arrive on the night and look around.

 

With 400asa how low does the ceiling need to be? Can I trust the green light to tell me if it's possible? As I've only used the flash for outdoor fill in I tend not to pay much attention to that green light.

Meanwhile all this info helps a lot. I'll give it my best shot while trying to look calm and collected!! Anyway it'll save me falling asleep from all those speaches as I really have to be at this meeting anyway.

 

Stressed out and panicking Gareth!!

[gareth_harper]

That looks nice Ivan. If I can get crisp clean shots like that my client will be more than happy. I may have heavy shadows if the ceiling is high, but hey I can explain that away.

[jim_simon3]

You received a lot of great advice. My 2 cents is that if you use a tele somewhere above about 110mm you run the real chance of red eye with direct pictures. You can get great distance from the flash, but it comes at too high a cost if the angle of the flash to lens is too small. Maybe someone else has more experience with the exact point at which the otherwise red eye proof 420 will give red eye.

[jimstrutz]

I'll give you some different advice. If there is enough light, try "dragging the shutter." It's what wedding photographers do all the time. It's simple & works quite well providing there is enough light.

 

The way I do it is set the camera on Av mode and dial in -1.5 to -2 stops of auto exposure compensation (AEC). This won't effect the flash exposure, which will make the subjects properly exposed. The background will be somewhat under exposed, but certainly not black. If you use P or M with 1/90 @ f/5.6, it will be black.

 

Another way to do this (and more commonly used) is to use M and set the apperture at f/5.6 and the shutter to give an exposure that is -1.5 to -2 below normal. Still the same results, a properly exposed subject with a dim but usable background.

 

With either method, if people aren't moving much, you can get away with hand holding shutter speeds that are at least a stop or two below normal. If you use a monopod, you can go even slower. If people are moving, keep the shutter above 1/30. If there isn't enough light for this, set the camera on M and select the above suggested 1/90 @ f/5.6, since it won't matter.

[jim_larson1]

I'm with Jim Strutz on this topic. I have learned the power of using "M" and checking the camera's exposure meter: If it shows -2 stops (pegged low), I know the background is going to be way too dark, and I adjust settings.

 

I cannot comment on when a ceiling is low enough for bounce flash: not enough experience. ;) I have only gotten serious about flash photography since getting a dSLR a few months ago. (This is where a dSLR shines: Instant post shot exposure checks!)

[gareth_harper]

More good and interesting advice.

Lucky for me, my old man, who I trusted to get the test film developed while I was at work forgot to do so. I'll just have to hope the gun is working.

I think I'll go for the P mode, and bounce if possible though I suspect this won't be an option. I'll shoot a few frames using some of the above methods to see what happens, and I'll be sure to run a few experiments in the future.

 

Once more thank-you for all the advice!

[steve_dunn2]

<cite>With 400asa how low does the ceiling need to be? Can I trust the green light to tell me if it's possible?</cite>

 

<p>You can mostly trust the green light. In the old TTL days, when the flash metering system measured light during the exposure and told the flash to turn off when it had seen enough, the green light meant that the flash metering system said "enough" before the flash ran out of juice. E-TTL does its metering differently, but the same basic idea applies: if the green light comes on, that means that the flash had enough power to produce what the flash metering system thinks is a correct exposure.</p>

 

<p>E-TTL is not infallible, but it's usually pretty good, and with the latitude of print film, the green light should be a pretty reliable indicator.</p>

 

<p>As for range ... because different ceilings are different heights and reflect different amounts of light, there's no way to tell in advance. The usual guideline I've seen kicked around is that you often lose about two stops by bouncing off the ceiling. In that case, your range for bounce flash with 400 film is about the same as the range of direct flash with 100 film. Which is very convenient, since the table of guide numbers in the 420EX manual is for 100-speed film. Divide the guide number for the 50mm setting (since the flash automatically zooms to 50mm when you tilt or swivel) by the apertures you think you might use and you have your approximate flash range.</p>

[gareth_harper]

Thanks again.

Job's done. Went mostly with the P mode, and like you pointed out the camera goes for 60 f4. Lighting was quite good so focusing most of the time was easy. One of the pros assured me that that the flash would keep my 70-200 sharp desipte the slow shutter, he had a 100-400 on a digital body with a 1.5 shift!

Felt a little embaressed asking him for tips when I was the one getting the best access.

Still bervously waiting for the results. Meanwhile demo to cover tomorrow, but I'll be shooting XP2 and tri-x without flash, back to the stuff I know a bit about.