First TLR Shots a Disappointment

[mani_varadarajan]

I'd like help from all of you as to what I did wrong. I recently

bought an Autocord in excellent condition to join others in being

"blown away" by the quality of their first MF shots. Sadly, my first

experience was the complete opposite.

 

I loaded some XP2 into the Autocord, took some shots of my family, and

had the film printed 5x5 onto true B&W paper (not very cheap, btw!).

13 out of 15 shots were either very soft or blurry due to camera

shake. I don't think I was hand holding less than 1/60, but I could be

wrong. I do admit to not ever using more than an aperture of 5.6.

 

So, here are my questions:

1. Should I never handhold under 1/100?

2. Do I need to use f/8 or smaller aperture to get sharp shots?

3. Why is my tonality no better than XP2 or T400CN in 35mm? Or was I

naive in thinking that 5x5 prints would show any difference?

4. For a TLR, is handholding a no-no and should I always use a tripod?

 

Any other suggestions from fixed-lens TLR users are more than welcome.

I would like to use this camera for environmental portraits and

landscape photography.

[nicholas_t.]

1: Handholding is easier with a 35mm. So no try not to handhold under 100th<br>

2: F8 should be fine but defer to a faster speed than trying to stop down...<br>

3: 5x5inch prints will not show any advantage to 35mm prints - 10x10in prints - yes.<br>

4: I always try to use a tripod. Because of the small size and nature of a TLR, a very small tripod w/o a head can be used - remember to use a cable release.

[ahaohio]

First the short answers:

 

1/ Should not be a problem

2/ I shoot at 2.8 w/o any issues - except minimal depth of field

3/ Your prints would have to be 10x10 or above for for the difference to be clear.

4/ They can generally be used handheld. Since there is no mirror slap the TLR:s are lesse prone to shake than a medium format SLR.

 

The longer version:

I would recommend you to mount your camera on a sturdy tripod and shoot a complete series of shots of a fixed object using various F stops (and corresponding times) from full open to whatever your smallest f stop may be (F45?). Take your time so that your focus is critically sharp. The develop and evaluate your negatives.

 

If you find that your shots are soft and/or blurry this could point to some problems with your camera (usually easy and unexpensive to fix) such as viewing and taking lenses not being perfectly aligned, mat screen slightly out of whack....

 

If your camera passes the above test with flying colours then the time has come to start practicing your shooting technique. These cameras are heavier and larger than your typical 35mm and it may take some practice to hold them perfectly steady.

[harry_akiyoshi]

TLRs are among the easiest to handhold of all cameras. However, there are a few issues here:

 

(a) No, you won't see a huge difference in 5x5" prints. In fact, it's completely possible that 35mm will look better at this size, depending on your lenses and how it's printed. You can occasionally get higher apparent sharpness from 35, even though there's less detail on the neg.

 

(b) You need to be completely sure that the blur in your pictures is due to camera movement. The lowest speed that you can handhold varies considerably from person to person. With my TLR, I can handhold at 1/30 with good sharpness at 12x12". If the sharpness issue is not, in fact, due to movement, it could be that the focusing mechanism of your Autocord is misaligned. It happens. Shoot a roll wide open from a tripod and see if the focus has come out as you intended.

 

The Autocord should be capable of producing excellent results handheld. The lens will be low in contrast and slightly soft wide open, especially at the edges, but will improve dramatically on stopping down to 5.6. It's pretty spectacular around f/11.

[jay_.]

<<5x5inch prints will not show any advantage to 35mm prints >>

<<No, you won't see a huge difference in 5x5" prints. In fact, it's completely possible that 35mm will look better at this size, depending on your lenses and how it's printed. You can occasionally get higher apparent sharpness from 35, even though there's less detail on the neg.>>

 

Total and utter nonsense. Anyone with one good eye can see the increased tonal range and fine detail in a 5x5" proof, assuming of course the MF shot had proper focus, camera support, exposure and processing.

[stephen hazelton]

Note that if the shots are blurry due to camera shake, there should be nothing in the frame that is sharp. If it is due to misalignment, then your intended subject may not be in focus, but something should be. Check the backgrounds and foregrounds and see if there is some other point that is in focus.

 

With some cameras it is harder to tell if the image is focused- you could just be missing the focus point, if it's not real obvious.

 

While unlikely, it is possibly a printing problem. Checking your negatives with a magnifier should be adequate to confirm if that is the case.

[mskovacs]

First thing I did when I got my Rolleiflex was mount it on a tripod 1 meter from a wall, download Bob Atkin's focus test target (EOS Digital article here on photo.net), shoot B&W and process in my bathroom.

 

Glad I did too because I found out the focus was significantly out of alignment about 2 weeks before an important shoot. Had enough time to get it fixed, tested the same way again, focus is now perfect.

 

Test your equipment if you haven't already!

[shotz]

Mike is right on. Track down the source of blur right away. Use a tripod. Focus close and far. Do some shots off the tripod. Be a scientist/engineer first and later be an artist.

 

BTW - using a flash will eliminate camera shake also. If you stobe lit shots are blurry, it's a focus problem.

[conrad_hoffman]

This is from someone who recently started shooting TLRs again, after many years of 35mm. The holding technique is a bit different. If you just hold the thing out there in free space, it will be pretty shakey. Put a little downward pressure on the strap and hold your elbows close to your side. Breath and hold at the moment of pressing the shutter. Press, don't jerk. Lean on something if there's something around. Be more fussy about focus. Don't just grossly focus, but find some very fine detail and use the magnifier. You can do about 2-4 times better than the initial un-magnified focus. The Autocord is very sharp if closed down a stop or more. With any speed film under 1000, a 5x5 print should be flawless- no grain and tack sharp. Good 35mm can be pretty good, but the Autocord should beat it almost every time. Remember that Autocords are getting on in years. Hold it up to the light with the shutter open and look through the taking lens from the back. It shouldn't have haze or film buildup. If the lens is dirty, if you think the focus is off, or the shutter is slow, have it serviced.

[steve_teale]

Mani,

 

My first roll with my TLR was a little disappointing also but showed some promise in a couple of the shots. I've since been very happy with it. My problem (coming from 35mm) was in the way I held the camera and pressed the shutter release I've come to conclude.

 

I would kind of cup the camera bottom in my left hand and press the shutter from the front with no support behind the camera - this pulled the bottom right corner of the camera toward me - it's what felt natural at the time (I was having a handful panning backwards !).

 

Camera shake is the likely cuplrit if none of the shot is in focus as mentioned. Try it on a tripod to make sure.

[jeff_drew4]

Mike K's suggestions are good ones . . . if in doubt, mount the camera on a tripod

and use a cable release. "Blurry" is not too specific a term, i.e. is the entire frame out

of focus or are some objects sharp and others not? Tip: when loading any rollfilm

camera, make sure the spools are mounted firmly and the film is tight against the

channel or path. IMHO: Print films and XP2 are not my first choices for testing.

Usually I grab a roll of Provia 100, Agfa RSXII 100, or Ektachrome 100 and tripod

mount the camera, and shoot at several f/stops and shutter speeds. Personally, I

handhold my Autocord at speeds of 1/15 or faster, but then I also use Pentax 6x7

and routinely tripod mount it. I find the Minolta and Yashica TLRs very easy to hold

even compared to the larger 35mm SLRs.

[russ_britt1]

Not picking on you but its not all camera, you also have to know how to use your equipment. The camera is just a tool,sometimes a 35mm is the better tool it depends on the job.

[Jerry_]

The bottom (taking) lens may have 'fungi' growing and that would cause some of the lack of sharpness. Have you examined the lens in detail (i.e., with a flash light) to see if the glass is clear. [The age of your camera may be the cause: a (1970-ish) new Autocord had very good glass back then: this is 2003....]

[patric_dahl_n]

Mike Kovacs wrote: "First thing I did when I got my Rolleiflex was mount it on a tripod 1 meter from a wall, download Bob Atkin's focus test target (EOS Digital article here on photo.net), shoot B&W and process in my bathroom.

Glad I did too because I found out the focus was significantly out of alignment about 2 weeks before an important shoot. Had enough time to get it fixed, tested the same way again, focus is now perfect."

 

The first thing I do when I get a "new" Rollei TLR I check the focus with a groundglass where the focus should be on film. It's easy to make a "groundglass" if you haven't got a spare one. Just take a piece of plexiglass and cover one of the surfaces with matte scotch magic tape.

[sam_portera]

Did you look at the shutter blades while testing the shutter before loading the film. Does it seem slow. These old cameras get gummed up and you may be selecting 1/60 but the camera may actually fireing at 1/15 or slower giving you an overexposed and motion blurred image.

[tito sobrinho]

When I get a new (old) medium format, I always follow Patric (ground glass) and Jeff (chrome) procedures. One month ago, I tried XP2 for the first time in one of my Rolleis. The lab did an awful job in printing (computer) the negatives. No sir, I love my Tri-x developed and printed in my darkroon. I tried XP2 out of pure laziness.

[tim obrien]

First off, stop shooting at night handheld. ASA 400 film at 5.6 and 1/60th? That's 6 to 7 stops below an outdoor exposure under bright sun. Test your equipment where it has a chance to succeed.

 

Second, get a lenshood for that baby. That will help when you take the camera out into the sun. One of the weak points of TLR cameras is lens flair.

 

Third, use the neck strap to brace your camera. You should be able to "handhold" down to at least 1/60, more like 1/30 with practice.

 

Fourth, if these don't resolve your issues, put it on a tripod and either get a small groundglass or use two threads crossed across the film opening to check alignment between the viewing lens and the taking lens. If they are not in sync, have a good camera repair person fix your rig.

 

 

Many of these issues were apparent when I bought my C220.

[mskovacs]

One nitpick I had about using ground glass was that the tripod socket swings out of the way when you have the back open. Also, I hear that the camera should bring the plane of focus in front of the ground glass by a small amount to compensate for the bowing of the film.

[tim obrien]

Mike!

 

You're right. You need a wood vise.

 

As far as the image plane, it had better be pretty close to the plane of the opening. It's as close as you are going to get. That's what the pressure plate does, aligns the film with the image opening on the camera.

 

tim in san jose

[greg_jones1]

Um, I read this thread on the fly, but did you use the flip-up magnifier to focus? Sometimes focusing using the waist level alone might result in things looking to be in focus with your eye 12-18" from the ground glass. But put a magnifier on it and see just how accurate your focus is. Just a thought...

[dave schlick]

great thread.. i took my first pictures 6x6 of my wifes family and they seemed blurry.. film was old, ugly house one one side etc. etc.. i was talking to the developer about it whose employee printed it.. 8x10.. he said no way 35 mm would even come close to the quality of picture i got using same circumstances.. we tend to be too hard on our selves.. took my c330 to yellowstone ruined many shots.. had a bunch of odds and ends film and tended to get asa mixed up.. showed shots to photographers and they marveled at some of the pictures and said i was too hard on my self.. and yes i cant hand hold at 1/60 with 80mm to please myself.. 5o mm lens is maybe ok at 1/60.. 80 mm lens must be 100 or 125 or so, for me i guess... i guess i need to try some of the faster films in people shots in lower light indoors etc.. with the larger minumum f it can get difficult. so as stated tripod and cable release are needed at times.. i was surprised at how different my c330s particulars were than 35mm and 4x5.. they are each unique but very worthy in thier best circumstances.. good luck, dave....

[ian_greant]

As long as your camera is working properly it's all in the technique Mani. <p>

I've shot and sold prints I've shot handheld wide open (3.5) at 1/30.

trick is to jam the camera into your gut.. I think it helps to be a little bit fat ;) <p>

Where the bigger neg really comes into it's own regardless of size is when you start pushing the film a bit. I push tri-x to 3200 pretty often and it still looks smooooth.

[jsbc]

1)You are using a low-contrast film on a low-contrast lens.

 

2)You are magnifying the film only 2x.

 

3) In a match with 35mm, as you are using XP-2 is practically grainless anyway rather than say a ISO400 film, the superiority of medium format would not be that apparent.

 

4) You may running out of depth of field. critical focusing with a calibrated viewer lens is important.

 

To really realize the difference between your TLR and a typical 35mm SLR - Use slide films and wait until a sunny day so you can use F/8 and maximize on the leaf shutter's higher synch rate. Any use Tripods. It does not hurt.

[olliesteiner]

I had a similar experience after years of 35mm work, when I saw my first roll of medium format shots. I was pleased to discover that the fault was with me--the equipment was fine! One correction I made was to adjust to the narrower depth of field. When I set my medium format camera to f4 I incorrectly had imagined the depth of field that would result from f4 on a normal lens in 35mm format. I soon learned to recalibrate my thinking about apertures. As others have suggested, you might take a roll of shots which you specifically make for sharpness testing: Use tripod or flash (so camera shake won't be a factor), use transpareny film (so the printing and enlarger focus won't be a factor), use a small aperture (so narrow depth of field won't be a factor). Then you'll see what the equipment can do.

[dick roadnight cotswolds]

Mike's suggestion of using a test target is good, but you need to check the alignment of the camera:

 

If things are not lined up OK then the taking lens might not give a sharp imag when you get one in the view finder.

 

Lay a ladder and/or a tape measure on the ground, use a tripod and focus on a point, and note which point: if the plane of sharpest focus is not at that point in the photograph, you know you have a problem, and you can see how far out it is.

 

When you know that the POSF is where you think it is, use the target test, which will tell you if it is parralel to the film plane,like it should be.

 

To be "blown away" by the quality of MF you may need to buy something with Zeiss lenses, or something with modern multi-coated lenes.