Are Gitzos character builders?

[vince_farnsworth1]

Being slightly dissatisfied with the design of my Bogen 3001, I decided to consider trading up to the equivalent Gitzo (220 series). The 3001 has been great for long treks into Nature but the winged leg-locks tend to catch on bushes and things as I'm hiking through overgrown areas. The Gitzos have a very sleek design without protruding parts and looked ideal. After trying a 226 at the local camera shop, I have several observations: 1) The tripod was designed by a sadist (or masochist, if the perpetrator was an outdoor photographer), 2) The center column collar can't be grasped with a hand when the tripod is up, 3) The head is attached by just screwing it onto a center bolt with no way to lock it in place, 4) My hands were raw from tightening and untightening all the sticky locking collars after only about five minutes. My question is this: Did I miss something here or are all the Gitzos beautifully made torture devices? I still think they look great and would give it a second chance if I thought there was some hope for a reconciliation. Maybe a 1227/1228?

[piaw]

(1) no comment (2) after replacing the center column with a short column, you won't be touching the center column collar (3) tighten the head enough, and your problem will be getting it off the tripod (4) you get used to it.

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I never had a problem with my Gitzo. It's always been worth carrying around.

[joe_boyd]

In reference to 3), having used a 340 and 1348, I can tighten the head to the point that it doesn't move without significant force. I agree that it's not quite as convenient as some sort of lock. After 6 months of wear, I could imagine that there would be some slop in a lock that would be more aggravating than the screw mount requiring a Schwarzeneggar grip. Considering how often I take put on and take off the head, the screw mount isn't a problem.

 

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In reference to 4), It's not necessary to fully tigthen each collar (such as the 3 or 4 on each leg) when collapsing or setting up the tripod. Twist the lock collars until the leg section doesn't slide in and out when storing or carrying the tripod. Any further twisting just creates more work when you're setting up the next time. It's not necessary to fully tighten each collar to get a firm lock when setting it up. With experience you'll recognize how much twisting is necessary to get a firm lock.

 

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Gitzos tend to be more of an acquired taste, requiring some learning and experience, to get the most out of them. The reward is a very long-lasting, steady, camera support. Bogens (Manfrottos) tend to have features that are easier to use, such as the twist-clamp leg locks, but they are more subject to adjustment with tools, or failure, over a period of time. Gitzos have features that are very simple and sturdy, but require experience to quickly and easily set-up and take down.

[frank_kolwicz]

In addition to a Gitzo 341(?), I have a Bogen with the cam/lever clamps on the legs and I can assure you that the Bogen clamps are the REAL torture devices, but the Gitzo leg collars are sticky when well tightened, the big wing nuts help a lot on the models that use them. The Bogen clamps, however, tend to loosen up and they require a special socket wrench to tighten them and they have to be adjusted "just so" or they will be too tight and, furthermore, the aluminum levers are brittle in cold weather and thus can break when you can't afford to lose the use of the tripod.

 

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My Gitzo has been in use for about 8 years and some of that time I was fairly busy, so it has seen more than amateur levels of use with only one problem - the center post tightening screw didn't tighten enough. The head itself, however, stays put when simply tightened, but is easy to change. My Bogen has the same simple screw-on head and I don't use the locking screws, likewise with no problems. I have several different heads that I change fairly often, so this has gotten pretty well tested.

 

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Frank

[paal_jensen1]

You didn't miss anything. I hate my Gitzo 505. Its obviously designed by a sadist who has no idea of what the thing is meant for. A Gitzo tripod is something you put up in a studio and don't touch it ever after. Seriously, you're right in all your observations. The good thing about Gitzo tripods is that they are nicely finished and reasonably sturdy, but I strongly suspect that there always are a Manfrotto/Bogen tripod thats just as sturdy for half the price: A tripod thats not a nightmare in the field. Remember that you also have too loosen or tighten the legs in the right order. For some ordely people this is probably second nature, but if you're a wandering chaos like me, and like yours sincerely get really excited when something interresting is happening in the field, the disaster is close at hand. I'm actually going to buy a Manfrotto tripod.

I also question the legendary quality of Gitzos (admittedly only based on my sample). The plastic end piece on two of my legs have fallen off, something that makes it fiddly and sometimes impossible to extract the last extension of the legs. The rubber bands around the leg lock mechanism have started to slip badly. And there are obviously some internal parts loose judging from the sound it makes when shaking it. In addition, I have apparently dented a leg, although I have no recollection of it, so that it can't be fully retracted.

[paulo_bizarro]

I don't know if they are character builders, but they do allow me to take great photos by providing the right support for my equipment. Also, Gitzo have been making tripods for 80 years, with considerable success, so they must know what they are doing. I have no problem whatsoever with using my tripod (G80, a special edition to celebrate their 80th anniversary, series 3 tripod), and I even have a Gitzo 1376 ball head (a sacrilege for most of the people on this forum).

 

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There are a couple of things that will help you improve the handling of a Gitzo tripod:

 

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1. It is not necessary to fully tighten the leg collars to held them in place.

 

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2. Disengage the said collars in the correct order when mounting/unmounting the tripod, after all, it says so in the instructions, right?:-)

 

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3. It is not necessary to tighten too much the centre column and head, when it stops and stays in place, no need to force it, it will only make it more difficult to untighten it.

 

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So you see, it is really simple. Of course not everybody is happy with Gitzo, that is why you have to try it before you buy it. Me, I know I will never use any other tripods, Gitzos are perfect for my needs.

[pete_dickson1]

Sounds like playing around with that Gitzo convinced you that your Bogen is just fine! Of course, both makes are imperfect. The two just happen to have different imperfections. They both help you take better photographs by providing a stable platform for your camera. The question is, "Which one maximizes the probability that you'll get the shot you want?" If you hate it so much you leave it in the car, you lose. If it breaks, you lose. If it's not stable enough for the equipment you're using or the conditions in which you're working, you lose. If it takes you so long to set up that bigfoot runs into the forest before you get the shot, you lose. Find a tripod you can live with and love the results it helps you get. Incidently, I use Gitzos for serious (amateur) photography and a Bogen 3021S when I smuggle camera equipment along on business travel. Pete

[don_baccus]

I've used 3021s for years. Like Frank, I discovered that as they wear they need a lot of fiddling to get the leg locks just right, and I have broken those flipper locks many times, once on a trip (fortunately I had a small pair of vise grips with me to tighten/loosen the locks on the rest of the trip).

 

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I have one small Gitzo, a 200 series with a double center column, and find that center column almost useless. As others have noted, it takes some practice to learn to not overtighten the leg locks. The tripod's not very tall, so I'm forced to use the column much more than I like. However, despite the negatives it is lightweight, relatively compact, and very sturdy for the weight, which is why I bought it.

 

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I also own a 1348, which I use for my big telephoto shooting, birds mostly with a 600/4. I love it. The leg locks are twice the size of those on the metal tripods, and the extra gripping surface is kind to the hands. It goes to about 5 1/2 feet without a center column, and since Gitzo center colums suck, I bought it without a center column.

Hopefully it won't get cranky in old age like the Bogen 3021s do!

[g_deen]

The nice thing about a cranky old 3021 is you can buy a slick, cooperative, new 3021 without having to second mortgage the house (<$100). I suspect it takes a pretty good while for the 3021 to get grey hair making it still an excellent buy. Mine hasn't let me down yet, although I probably don't extreme test it like some of the regulars here.

[frank_brabec]

Yes, especially judging from the characters that carry them :-)

[GerrySiegel]

Vince, I recently bought a similar class Gitzo Model 224 which has three leg sections. Better not judge by the 4 section model G226 for the modest weight saving. (Bryan Geyer of RRS told me to stick with Gitzos three section legs.) At first I hated the twist collets after the Bogen quick lock levers and the self positioning spread feature of having a center brace on my 3033a. Now I am pretty used to them both. If it was a time trial contest between setting up my Bogen 3033a and the Gitzo 224, I would save maybe 15 seconds. Gitzo may not build character, but it builds finger strength. I still have to get used to lining up the dumb pin on the top of the legs when I retract the top platform after raising it on the column an inch or so. And with a center column without gears,attention must be paid. (Notice too, the second smaller section of the so called" rapid center column collet unlocks in a reverse direction from the bottom unit. Vive la France! Summary: I love both of these pods compard to the junk I used for years before. This sort of Q provokes as much debate and the Nikon/Canon stuff:-)

[don_grall]

In regards to your remark about not being able to lock your head on

the center bolt of a Gitzo there is an easy solution if you're handy

and have a drill. I have a 410 with a base plate and no center column with a custom set screw installed. Go to a hardware store and for about $10.00 or so, you can buy a set screw (hex key style), a tap (special bit that will cut a thread into a drilled hole), and a wrench to turn the tap. The end result will be a hole in the base plate, cut for the appropriate size set screw you chose which will lock your head

onto the base plate or center column, this works with either set-up.

You really only need one hole and one set screw assuming you put a mating indentation into the bottom of your tripod head. This has worked beautifully for me even with a 600/4 attached to my Wimberley and carrying the whole rig on my shoulder. If you don't have a drill maybe you can borrow one, everything else is an easy manual task since the base plate (and most column-style base plates) are a soft aluminum alloy. The whole procedure takes about

15 minutes. Hope this helps.

[GerrySiegel]

Don's idea is good. For another alternative, consider Loctite liquid Nut/Bolt Locker, item #82361 called "TITEN" ®. Removable after application with a little heavy twisting. Designed for the mechanically clumsy but pure of heart like me.

[cwphoto]

After a Bogen 3001 came apart in a car trunk(vibration) while traveling from Salt Lake airport to Arches NP, I've kept everything tight and switched to Gitzo. The fewer parts the better. Gitzo legs have one part per lock, Bogen, three. A clean Bogen can be collapsed by turning upside down and loosening the bolts, the legs will telescope by gravity. With Gitzo, loosen the upper ring, slide leg home and the next section will be waiting. Repeat process. Disassemble legs and clean and lightly lube legs a few times a year.

As a machinist, and wedding and backpacking photographer whos been published often, my vote goes to Gitzo. But Bogen is best value in my opinion, and machinists always have opinions.

[paul_wilson2]

I do find the user interface on my 1228 to be much nicer than my old 126. The wider grips on the leg locks are much easier on hands and the center column(which I'm guilty of using sometimes and which is quite strong) is much easier to deal with since it has a wing nut.

 

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Incidently, my 1228 broke over the weekend. The glue let go on one of the legs. I sent it to Bogen and they said they'll have me a new one by Friday. Lifetime warranties are a good thing.

[duane_galensky]

The biggest hurdle in becoming a Gitzo aficionado I think is remembering which way *tightens* the collar, and which way *loosens* it. After making that mistake a couple of times and trying to un-do an overly clamped leg section, one tends to learn quickly. After that, the raw hands syndrome magically goes away...

 

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I've bent, bruised, banged, and dented less worthy tripods including the regular Bogens. I've managed to chip the paint in spots on one of my Gitzos but it's still working great.

 

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P.S. - forget about the center column...buy a tripod that's tall enough for you without one.

[leif_rudd]

i know i'm adding to a reeealy old thread, but i thought my recent experience might be useful to those surfing for followups. i have a bogen 3221 with a 3265 pistol-grip ballhead. i have climbed a number of peaks over 12,000 feet with it in hand, sometimes using it as a trekking pole, sometiems cracking it against sharp rocks as i climbed. i have taken it down hundreds of miles of trails in dust, sand, hail, snow and mud. i've had it bouncing around in the back of my pickup, rolling around the hatch of our outback, and so on. lately it's been sitting on top of a shovel i keep in the back seat to dig myself out of a ditch if the truck were so inclined on a snow day. perhaps i'm underestimating the torture that some of you devise for your bogens, but honestly i'm perplexed. while i try to be careful with the ballhead, i've subjected the body to some rather rough conditions... sand, mud, river bottoms, dropped on granite, etc. and i've had none of the problems (yet <G>) that have plagued others. either i've just got to beat it some more, or perhaps the 3221 is a tougher design?

[p_l_jensen]

I bought a Manfrotto 055 nat back in '98 and it has been subjected to the same treatment as Leif describes above. However, I don't share his experience. One of the legs bent when the tripod toppled over; one of the stoppers for the leg broke the first time I dropped it. This happened in the first month of ownership. I still use it although a leg don't retract fully and is bent. Also, all the green paint is worn away and its now shiny silver.

This week I received a Berlebach 9013 wooden tripod thats going to replace the Manfrotto. I've used a smaller Berlebach for a year now and its excellent. They can stand tought condition; they wont dent or bend and they also can stand sea water. Ergonomically they are way ahead of the Gitzos and also preferable to the Manfrotto tripods.

Their weight/stability/durability ratio is the best in business.

In due time I will buy one of the heavy duty Berlebach tripods to replace my Gitzo 505.

[dan_smith]

I have four Gitzo tripods and the only trouble I have is the Cheap bastards that took them over (Bogen) don't honor the lifetime warranty I was supposed to have when I bought them. When I eventually have to replace them ( two in continuous use since the 1970's) it won't be with another Gitzo since they are no longer guaranteed.