Sinar view camera technique

[cp_wong]

i am a green LF user, use a sinar F1.

I have several questions for your comments:

1/ sinar has "2 point focusing systems" to assess degree of front

tilting and swinging.There are grid lines in the groundglass,but the

problems is that when i obtain the degree of front tilt or swing from

the small knob and adjust correspondingly, i just fine the 2 points

cannot in focus altogether, and the instruction claimed that "

refocus if necessary" , but how come even the 2 points for tilting

assessment also not in focus , and how do i refocus ?

2/ The instruction for movement and DOF adjustment from Sinar web

site: 1/ make front tilting, then front swing, refocus if needed ,

then followed by DOF asessment by DOF knob.The questions is: what

about other movements,e.g.back tilting or swing if i need to adjust

the perspective ? Put it in another way, when i compose the pic,

should i take the following steps:

1/ level the camera by spirits

2/ if can't get the good composition, then adjust by camera movement

(rise/fall), and finally tilting the whole camera.

3/ get the perspective by back movements,

4/ front tilting /swinging

5/ DOF ,

are they the proper sequences for focussing, or what are the correct

ones?

3/ for landscape , we can either focus at infinity, and step down the

apertures to have deep DOF, or we can also focus at the hyperfocal

distance.But anyway u can only a single sharp focal plane, others

planes are all reasonably sharp , with acceptable Circle of confusion.

so which approach should i take? or third approach, if i have a sharp

focal plane in mind in my composition, so just focus at that plane ,

then step down apertures to get as deep as the DOF.

many thanks

[jbq]

Check <a href="http://www.sinarbron.com/123f.htm">this</a>

[tim_curry]

While there is a lot to proper focus (whole books which can bore you to tears while not answering a simple question), the basic rule I follow is simple. Level all movements and set all variables to as close to zero as the shot will allow.

 

1 - I first evaluate the composition to see if it is possible to use only hyperfocal distance for a given composition.

2 - If this is not sufficient, the next step is movement. Is it rise, fall, shift, etc?

3 - If there is still an issue with movement, the next consideration is front tilt or swing. Is the plane of sharp focus a fence line, building or table top composition?

4 - The last consideration I have is distortion. Does the back need to move to make the foreground loom (is the field of flowers receding faster than my hair line)?

5 - How much d.o.f. is necessary now to bring everything into focus? Would a shorter lens and closer subject work better?

 

Remember, there is usually less movement involved than you might expect to have things sharp. Start with simple compositions and only one movement until you get a feel for things. It can be confusing at first, but simple steps are easier to master at first.

[ellis_vener_photography]

1.) it is also for rear standard tilting and swinging. As a matter of fact it works better

when just applied to the rear standard.<P>

The corect methodoloy is:

1.) zero all movements.<P>2.) point camera directly at the subject.<P>3.)

Optional) Re-erect the standards if they are tilted off the vertical.<P>4. Focus on the

heart on the subject.<P>5.) Find the far point you want to focus on and turn the band

on the depth of field scale so that is now at the zero point for the calculator.<P>6.)

focus to the nearest point. and make note of the calculated f-stop. If you are

between f/32 and f/16, additional movements won't help you. you are in the prime

resolution range for most large format lenses If the suggsted f/stop is f/45 or f/64

maybe sometilt or swing (is required. <P>

7/) Now back focus back toward the far point by exactly two stops, that is your "hyper

focus focusing distance for the indicated f-stop.<P>8.) shoot a Type 55 Polaroid, rate

it

at ISO 20 or 25, process and assess the focus on the Type 55 negative. <P>9.) Shoot

film.

[cp_wong]

thanks ,

from the above advices, i still have questions :

1/ when should we use hyperfocal distance , and when we use camera movements? or u routinely use both?

2/ do we first get the corrective perspective by rear standard movement before considering the focussing?

3/ From an article of Merklinger, focusing at infinity instead of hyperfocal distance may have sharper images at medium distant

objects.so does it depend on our interest of the subject, if it is more over the foreground , then hyperfocal may be more useful.

4/ what about if the whole camera set has to be tilted downwards, says, in macro pics,so we need to re-erect the standards to vertical before any standard movements? am i right?

thanks again

[cp_wong]

another difficult point is that i can't fully have a mental pictures of image when the lens aperture step down to f32 , and/or with the movement applied.these images can not be obtained in the ground glass, even for effect of tilting , i found difficult to see the effect as what my question quoted above.

[per_volquartz1]

The grid lines for swings / tilt on a Sinar only work with a P or P2 back. It requires assymetric swings / tilt.

 

Sinar f and f2 both have base tilt and center swings.

 

The 2 point focus is simple. Focus on the part of the image that is furthest away! Set the line on the focus knob to zero. Now focus on the part in the image that is closest. Read the f stop and set this f stop on the lens. Finally, dial the focus knob back 2 stops = hyperfocal distance. Now everything is sharp!

(Unless you have a lens that has a focus shift when stopped down = old Dagor or a single element Symmar Convertible).

[philip_sweeney]

Just a little more info: <html>

<a href="http://home.att.net/~shipale/DOF.html">Depth of field with a 90mm lense on a 4 x 5</a>

</body>

</html>

Also: unfortunately the F1 does not have center tilt and only base tilt. I have read all the reasons why they designed it that way. However you should be aware of the ease of focus with center tilt if you ever get another camera. Rotate your camera on your tripod 90 degrees and use your front swing as a center tilt - easy eh! I don't bother with the sinar method. Whenever I go for my F1 I forget how to do it. Try focussing infinity at the bottom of the glass and tilt to bring in the foreground focus - then refocus overall. repeat as necessary.

[chip_greenberg1]

OK, it's been over 10 years since I used my Sinar F so I'm not going to give

you detail on the technique. However, with all due respect, to ignore sinar's

focusing system is to ignore the camera's greatest asset. Before I bought my

first P the local Sinar rep loaned me a P to use for a week. Before that week I

was convinced the camera was way overpriced and was going to buy a

Horseman. By the time the week was up I was sold and eventually ended up

with 2 4x5 Sinars and 1 8x10 for my studio. The ability to chose exactly where

I want the plane of focus to fall was a HUGE advantage over the Cambo I had

been using with center tilts. I was able to sleep at night without worrying

about focus problems, use bigger aperture in the sweet spot of the lens, and

needed less flash power. Since I retired from commercial photography I

believe Sinar's patent ran out and I see other cameras that appear to have a

similar build. Learn how to use that focusing technique and you will never

look back.

Chip

[jerry_flynn1]

CP,

In the first part of your question you asked why you had to refocus after applying the tilt. The reason is that as you tilt the front standard of the Sinar F1 (as with any other camera with base tilts), the lens moves away from the film plane. In fact, it swings through an arc. Since you have move the lens away from the film by tilting, you have to slide the front standard back a bit to get back into focus. Because the lens swings through an arc downwards, you may also have to reposition the image by raising the front a bit as well.

[dick roadnight cotswolds]

This is a variation on Ellis�s method - I try to keep the monorail horizontal, and only tilt it if I run out of rise/fall:

 

zero all movements.

 

Level camera

 

Rotate camera about vertical axis for horizontal framing

 

Adjust rise/fall for vertical framing

 

Apply tilt/swing to position plane of sharpest focus (Scheimplug)