Biogon 38 vs. Distagon 40? A new answer to this question

[kornelius_j._fleischer]

A new wideangle lens for the Hasselblad V system has shown up on both

the Hasselblad and the Zeiss website, medium format, Hasselblad

system, 500 series section. Have you checked it out?

[q.g._de_bakker]

Impressive MTF. But distortion doubled compared to its predecessor?

[q.g._de_bakker]

Kornelius,

 

One question: how does performance vary with changing focussing distances?

[mikael_larsson]

In the release material for this lens present in the News section of the Hasselblad homepage it is stated that this new lens is part of a redesign of all the Zeiss lenses for the Hasselblad V system.

 

The 350 was renewed in 1997 and the 38 in 2001/2002. After the new 40 we can then perhaps expect a renewed 50 with internally controlled floating lenses and perhaps also internal focusing. One interesting question is if all lenses will eventually be of CFE type or if e.g. the newly presented CFi 60 will continue as a CFi lens.

[q.g._de_bakker]

Another interesting question is if all lenses end up using IF (or RF), how long it will take for them to grow tiny motors, electronic leaf shutters, and reappear as AF lenses.

[mikael_larsson]

With the evolutionary approach with which the V system has been developed up to now, it would probably take a very long time before electronically controlled shutters are introduced. It is highly unlikely that the new 40 will be changed in the next 10 years.

 

I am personally more interested in an update of the optics to the latest standards, needed or not. That would mean that Hasselblad keeps up with the competition instead of gradually become the choice of yesterday in terms of optical quality.

 

High-resolution digital backs will probably be able to detect differencies between good and really good lenses. As an addition, if an MF camera with digital backs shall be able to compete with high-end 35mm digital cameras, the MF lenses should not cancel out the advantages with MF digital backs in form of lower noise levels compared to the physically smaller sensors in the 35 mm cameras.

[yun_chen1]

Good! There is detailed instruction in the Zeiss website. The new CFE 40 IF is bigger and heavier than the old one. But higher imagine quility: 200 lpm! I am waiting for the new CFE60!

[q.g._de_bakker]

A new 60 mm Distagon? Hmm... Before that, i am waiting for them to say that this increase in distortion is only a typo... ;-)<br>People already are talking about getting the old version before supplies run out, since they happen to care lots about distortion in wide angle lenses. More so than for increased resolution or flatter field. I must say i do see why.

[chris_c._yu]

I own the CFE 4/40 for two years and I love the lens.Checking on the specification the new CFE 4/40 IF is 122mm vs 102mm in length and 1130gm vs 915gm in weight.Needless to say, the price will be at less 15-20 % more expensive than the old one. I guess this new lens is making way solely for the ditigal photography.Any comments are welcome.

 

Chris Yu

[teo_lava]

I welcome anything that is a new improvement to the V line. The mystery for now is that what's next. There must be some continuation of this development. It doesn't make sense to only improve the 40mm lens up to the "digital standars". 200 lp/mm does sound good. The MTF graphs are pretty impressive as well almost rivaling the Biogon. The extra is size just inevitable I guess. Distortion is the bad news. I can't imagine that it is a typo on the zeiss site (although it would be nice). I think the distortion issue will make or brake this lens because otherwise it is a super lens. We'll see.

 

The bad news for me is that I just got my 40CFE not so long ago after long long hesitation. I must say I really like this lens but improvements made to it obviously teases me even tough I would lose a lot of $ if I sold the 40CFE and bought the new IF version.

 

The Hasselblad website says:

 

"The new lens is a part of the ongoing redesign of all Carl Zeiss lenses for Hasselblad. The lens features a CFE-design with an electrical interface through which to transfer lens data to 203FE and 205FCC cameras for automatic aperture priority exposure".

 

Any comments about what can we expect next?

[ilkka]

On Hasselblad's website, the new 35 mm lens for the H series also has very impressive MTF curves. Would be nice to see a practical comparison of those three lenses (35, 38 and 40). Maybe Herr Fleischer can help? Few of us ordinary mortals have access to all three lenses...

[w_r]

Let me repeat what I just read on these posts for the new Hasselblad 40mm lense:

- distortion is higher!

- weight is more!

- price is higher!

 

I see Hasselblad is, yet again, amazing us with their product marketing, amazing "new" technology and never ending quest to raise the price. I have been a sucker for a long time - and continue to be weak. They've got me where they want me. I surrender. Do you take cash, check or credit cards here?

[peter_ochmann]

And what will be the price for this beast ?

[stephen_pitts]

I hate to get in the way of the Eor parade, but I for one am very excited about this new lens given its extremely impressive MTF curves (for a wide angle), etc. While the distortion has increased versus the previous version, it is fairly irrelevant to me since I'm looking forward to having this wide angle to shoot candid scenes which I used to do with the 38 biogon (complicated by the need to focus by scale, set exposure by judgment or external meter). I put up with such inconveniences becaused I refused to give up the quality of the biogon lens. Well, the biogon lens will still have a strong place in the less active types of photography for me; but for candid, active shooting I think the new 40 IF CFE will be probably be terrific. I just can't wait until it arrives (I understand end of June).

[kornelius_j._fleischer]

From this discussion I get the impression that our Zeiss distortion diagrams are not easy to interpret correctly.

 

When talking about "distortion" photographers usually consider the visual bending of straight lines in an object. Is the bending higher with higher amounts of distortion indicated in the Zeiss distortion diagrams? Everybody seems to agree. Nevertheless it is incorrect. Fact is: Bending/curving of straight lines occurs more in the picture where the distortion curve of the lens bends more. Unwanted bending of straight lines is most apparent, when it takes place near the edge of the frame, because the straight boundaries of the frame are a reference against which a curved line is judged.

 

Now look at the distortion graphs from the Distagon 4/40 CFE and the new IF: The graph of the IF version is quite straight for the edge and corner regions of the image. As a result, you will get pretty straight lines at the edges of the frame with the new lens. So the "distortion", understood as objectionable bending of straight lines near the referencing edges of the frame, was actually improved with the new version, not doubled! I am not talking theory here. I have taken comparison photos with the 40 CFE, the new IF prototype, and the Biogon 4,5/38 last November and December which clearly prove my point. I intend to publish these photos in the next issue of Zeiss Camera Lens News, now that I have seen how much interest this topic raises.

 

And to "mortal" Illka: I have had no access to the Fuji/Hasselblad 35 mm H1 lens, so far. Therefore I cannot comment on it from my own experience.