step up to 2 1/4 or 645?

[hellobob]

I am a portrait shooter was thinking of buying a digital when an

associate recommends i buy a med. format film camera instead as a

natural progression.. what is best bet for portraits of families,

children, corp. execs, a 2 1/4 format or a 645? thanks for input.

[audun_sjoeseth1]

I have a 6x6 camera, an i use 6x6 for portraits and small groups. For some lansdscapes i use a 645-back for horisontal photos in 6x4.5 or 6x3, I also use this back for some photos of groups .

 

I would go for a 6x6 camera, then you'll never have to turn the camera, and you'll only need a WLF or a chimney :-)

[david_henderson]

Picking up on the point above, if you go 645 you'll be working

nearly all the time with the camera on its side. Some 645's are

easier to work this way than others, but its never as good as not

having to turn the camera at all.

[ruben_bittermann]

You are asking one of those existencial question that have no general answer, but specific to the specific camera and the specific shooter mind. Many factors intervene here.

 

The already mentioned consideration about turning the camera is highly important to most of 645 cameras, but not all. And you should add what will happen to the specific camera in case you want to mount a flash on top or side.

 

On the other hand there is the open question of how your specific mind will react, after a while, to the square format, in case you follow this path.

 

In my case, I do use square, do not need to turn my dinosaur, but am not happy with the square eyeviewing, nor with the waist of film. In my case, square eyeviewing leads me to square composition.

 

As for the waist of film, the alledged cropping freedom, it is not only the waist but having to change film very soon, after 12 exposures.

 

This is life in MF land, higher quality at the expense of high uncomfort and high prices. No easy solutions, and a lot of traps.

[guytal]

If you plan to work in a studio, why not go to 6x7? You can get a nice Mamiya RB/RZ with a rotating back and have a frame that requires virtually no cropping to print at 8x10.

<br><br>

Guy<br>

<a href="http://scenicwild.com">Scenic Wild</a>

[jonathan brewer]

A 6x6 MF is a defacto 645 when cropping to a rectangular print size, the Mamiya Pro-SD/RZII doesn't have to be turned on its side since you can rotate the back, but isn't as portable as many 6x6 cameras, or the smaller 645 cameras.

[audun_sjoeseth1]

You may also want to have a look at Bronica RF645, the compact rangefinder with portrait orientation.

[joseph_walsh2]

An aside to David Henderson,

David, one thing (of several) I've been favorably struck by on your website is your square compositions. Conventional Wisdom says

: " Shoot the square and then crop vertical or horizonal later". That's what most do. I've noticed that your square photos cannot --- or at least --- should not be cropped.

[elliot]

I think that, if you are shooting 35mm right now and want medium format for bigger negatives and higher quality, then do just that and buy a camera that makes bigger negatives. You want 6x7 format. Also, unless you are printing square prints, you have to crop 6x6 down, and end up printing what is effectively a 645 negative. So you have 3 options: 645, 645 with negative waste for options with cropping, and 6x7. 6x7 is bigger and if you have 35mm or digital or whatever for convenience, travel, etc, then convenience, smallness and lightness shouldnt be so much of an issue for your medium format camera. The difference in camera size isnt really all <i>that</i> big, but the negative size is.

[dick roadnight cotswolds]

The Hasselblad H1 might seem to be the obvious choice, for later attachment of a digiback, but I assume it is horizontal format, and the size of the hole in the back of the camera would prevent vertical use of a digiback wider than 45mm.

 

Get A Hasselblad ELD - a digital-ready motordriven camera with the flexibility of the square with film, and the potential for a rotatable digiback.

[hellobob]

whoa, i have limited knowledge on 6X6, 6X7, and actually on med. format in general. now, thanks to all fellow photo netters, i must investigate further. it seems what you are telling me is that 645 is more cumbersome to shoot vertically and certain difficult with on camera flash. does stroboframe make a flip for this size like they do for my 35mm? now, 6X6, 6X7..much more expensive or in same ball park as 645 (mamiya i had in mind).? and are they mostly manual settings for studio use? also, i don't quite understand about the cropping? obviously, no cropping for an 8X10 print would be best, but how are formats compared to my usual vertical 35mm portraits? thanks again for all responses...now i will research further and review all your responses again!....ps...i shoot children and obviously have to move around a lot...on floor, up , down, sideways, etc. aren't these 6X6 6X7 difficult if not impossible for such movement? i imagine for adults or corporate, they are fine, but children??

[audun_sjoeseth1]

You may also want to have a look at Bronica RF645, the small rangefinder with portrait oriontation. The 135mm and the 65mm would be nice.

[jonathan brewer]

I tend to shoot kids w/my Autofocus 35mm, unless I'm asked to do it in MF format in which case the price for the sitting goes up, now unless you're shooting with either the new H1, the contax 645, or the Rollei 6x6 AF, you be trying to manually follow focus kids with a MF which can be done but is tough, and the percentage of keepers to fuzzy shots will go down.

 

My technique for shooting kids/folks who can't sit still w/MF is to set focus, starting firing and then after several shots refocus at the start of a new sequence, depending on your exp. a surprisingly high number of shots will come out, the problem is they aren't always the ones you want to come out. The alternative is focusing everytime they move, which takes time, messes up continuity/is disruptive, and folks can 'stiffen' up with this method.

 

The cropping issue is simple, shoot a square negative(6x6) and print a retangle portion of that negative and you'll lose some the image(the top and bottom portion of the image if the rectangle is a horizontal crop of the image/the right and left portions of the image if the crop is a vertical crop), you have less of this with a 645 camera or a 6x7 MF camera because they shoot a rectangular neg. in the first place, if things still aren't clear simply purchase a 'cropper' which will show you the portions on your 35mm negs that will print and what portions of the images will be lost.

 

You need to go here......http://www.photographyreview.com/reviewscrx.aspx.......these are the reviews of cameras(all formats) by the users of that gear, which will give their hands on experience before you have purchased the gear giving you a head start. Wait, research, don't impulse buy(if you end up hating the thing, you'll sell it a loss/put it on a shelf to gather dust) and then check out the gear firsthand. You've got to eventually handle the gear, there's no other way.

[jonathan brewer]

A point of clarification, I'm not saying if somebody moves drastically out of position to keep on shooting, of course you'll have to refocus manually, also Autofocus cameras can mess up, when everybody is 'straight on' that's one thing but on a head shot where your subject is 'three quarters' and not looking straight on you have to 'play' with the focus between the front and back eye(on a tight head shot for example where the subject is looking 'three quarters'(at an angle exactly between a 'side profile' and 'straight on') an autofocus camera tends to focus the front eye leaving the back eye too fuzzy, you still have to watch out with autocus doing portraits.

[timothy_robson]

Cost is another factor you'll have to consider when you buy into a medium format system. Most medium format equipment is expensive, and the prices of additional lenses and accessories for the most prestigious 6x6 systems, Hasselblad and Rollei, can be jaw dropping, even if you're a professional and able to take advantage of tax writeoffs. You need to go in with a basic idea of the sort of equipment you'll need, and what it will cost to get the kit you're looking for in the different systems you're considering.

 

I bought into older Mamiya 645 gear because I liked the feel and handling of the equipment, found the 6x4.5 rectangular format more familiar than 6x6 coming from 35mm, and liked the idea of getting a few extra shots per roll of film. My older bodies, although not cutting edge, have all the features I need. Just as important, though, was the fact that bodies and lenses are readily available, at comparatively modest cost. Despite their affordability, I think my Mamiya lenses offer pretty outstanding performance, although the Zeiss optics of the other systems are by all accounts unsurpassed.

 

Given that you're interested in portrait photography, one option you might consider as an entry into 6x6, if you're so inclined, would be one of the Mamiya C22/220/33/330 series of twin lens reflex cameras. These are relatively inexpensive, and unlike other TLRs, offer lens interchangeability. They were very popular with wedding photographers in their day, and remain very useable and, I believe, serviceable. If you decide that square format is for you, you might then at some point decide to graduate to a Hasselblad or Rollei, but that's not the sort of investment you want to make on the strength of someone else's recommendation. One resource you should look at is Robert Monaghan's Medium Format Articles page at http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/index.html.