Kirk Ball Heads

[peter_van_zyl1]

After having been on backorder at Cameraworld.com for more than three

months for an Arca Swiss B1 ball head, and no resolution in sight

(the sales rep told me again today that the wait could be another 90

days!!!), my patience has run out waiting for Arca Swiss. The Kirk

web site indicates that they have a new ball head on the market, and

I read that to mean they are now closer in quality and perfomance to

what customers have come to expect from Arca Swiss, but that could

simply be sales talk on their part.

 

Does anyone have any experience with the latest incarnation of the

Kirk ball head, and if so, how does it compare to the Arca

Swiss "standard"?

 

Thanks.

[bjn]

I've been looking into the same ball heads, but I can't offer you any real experience with either. The B1 has a devoted following, but the Arca cult turns me off. To my mind, they all to easily dismiss the infamous lock-up problem. The solution seems to me to be silly... leaving the lock loose while transporting the head/tripod. The price and the wait are both quite extreme, and since I have zero experience with the product I'd have to buy it on "faith".

 

The Kirk head looks like a good alternative. I bought a Kirk quick release and body plate for my F100 and the quality is impeccable. Again, I only have the references of of few (respected) photographers, but the risk is lower and I haven't seen any reports of problems.

 

I stumbled on a new ball head out of Taiwan by Markins. The specs are very Arca-like, but from my correspondence with their web contact, the Markins head will be priced attractively and they've designed the quick release to be a single twist to open the "vice" as opposed to the Arca, RRS, Kirk slow-release that requires several twists on the QR knob. I'm cooling my heels until I get more info from Markins on US pricing, etc. If you're interested in their partitial English version website, it's at: http://www.markins.com/ (I don't allow installation of Korean text support, and beware their server is very slow). They also have a line of plates for cameras and lenses. I'm sure the devotees of Arca would be aghast at any of this.

 

Best luck,

 

BJ Nicholls

[gooseberry]

Peter,

 

Since I haven't had a chance to use them, I cannot speak for either of the two heads, but in case you would still consider Arca-Swiss B1, you may want to visit Rober White's Internet store at the following URL: http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/ and/or get in touch with him directly at [mailto:sales@robertwhite.co.uk]. His prices for this particular item (and, by the way, for Gitzo tripods even more so!!!) are much more attractive than those found in the U.S., even if you account for shipping. Check this out. Tomasz

[daniel_bergmann1]

I got my Arca B-1 from Robert White's and I can recommend their

services. I have used it in extreme arctic conditions and have never

experienced any "lock up" problems. The Arca B-1 has been the standard

for which other ballheads are compared to and if you are willing to

accept a substitute you can go for the Kirk BH-1. I have not used it

personally but some professionals have. John Shaw uses it and John W.

Herbst has a review on his website at

http://www.grizzlyjhphoto.com/oldequipment.html#bh1 The Kirk BH-1

sells for about $330 while the Arca is about $400.

[wildpicture]

Daniel, you have to submit the text as HTML with the link written in HTML. The link you wanted is <a href="http://www.grizzlyjhphoto.com/oldequipment.html#bh1">here.</a>

Try viewing the source of this page to see how the HTML was written.

[kelly_krabbenhoft]

Peter,

 

What lens would you be using? I recently bought a ball head from Kirk. I had made up my mind to get the BH-1. However, when I called them and they asked what lens I was going to use (Canon 600/4 IS), they told me of their newest head for big glass. I have used it the past month and it is nothing but phenomenal. It is the King Cobra head. I haven't used the Arca Swiss or Wimberley (sp?) but have seen them in action. The King Cobra allows for perfect balance and no chance of lens flop. I have used it in a number of situations, from a blind to shooting flying birds, and it is very smooth. If you have big glass, this is worth looking into.

[robert_p._boner]

You might want to look at the Foba Superball. It is about the same price as the B-1 and weighs about 2.6#. It only takes about a 30 degree turn to completely lock the head as opposed to 2-3 turns to lock up the B-1. I have not used the B-1, but I do have the B-2. The B-2 is slightly smoother than the Foba, but the Foba is much quicker to use.

[passakorn_pananont]

Has anyone tried to ordered from Robert in England before. Could anyone give me some idea about the duty fees for photographic equipment and shipping cost? IS it worth doing it or it's better order from inside the US. I am in US.

 

Thanks

 

Passakorn

[sam_mahmoud]

The Kirk ball head is very similar to the Arca-Swiss.

Using mine side by side with a friend's Arca only

made me wonder if there isn't a copyright infringement

problem with these -- they're that similar.

<p><p>

It may interest you to know that Galen Rowell uses

the Kirk head. When I found that Kirk claimed his

endorsement on their web site, I was skeptical.

So I personally verified it, first by phoning Rowell's

company, <a href="http://www.mountainlight.com">Mountain Light</a>, and

speaking to his assistant, and later

by observing Rowell in the field during a workshop.

<p><p>

I chose the Kirk because I couldn't get the Arca

quickly, and I didn't think I would be using my

gear in harsher conditions than Galen Rowell.

<p><p>

Here are the differences that I know of:

<p><p>

1. The Kirk has a separate knob for tension control,

the Arca has it built into the main locking knob.

<p><p>

2. The Kirk doesn't have the aspherical ball. In

practice, I don't know what difference this really

makes.

<p><p>

3. The Kirk doesn't have the lockup problem.

<p><p>

4. The Kirk is a little cheaper.

[bobatkins]

"<em>The Kirk doesn't have the aspherical ball. In practice, I don't know what difference this really makes</em>".

<p>

For me this was a big reason to go with Arca. What it means is that as you rotate the ball more and more (front and back or side to side), the tension increases slightly. This makes handling large and heavy lenses (500/4, 600/4 etc.) a little easier. Once you get the center of gravity away from over the center of the ball, especially to the right or left, the weight of the lens tends to pull it further off axis and it "flops" to one side. The aspherical ball makes this less likely to happen.

 

FWIW, I have had no problems with my B1 (no lockup, no change in smoothness) since I've had it (a couple of years now).

<p>

"<em>Using mine side by side with a friend's Arca only made me wonder if there isn't a copyright

infringement problem with these"</em>

<p>

Word has it that that was the reason the Kirk ball heads were unavailable for a while after they were introduced. I presume there was some sort of redesign before they were made available again.

[ShunCheung]

As far as I know, Kirk did get into some patent infrigenment problems with Arca Swiss when the Kirk ballhead was first introduced. Apparently those issues have been resolved.

<P>

When I talked to David Middleton a little more than a year ago, he was using a Kirk ballhead. Middleton told me that Kirk was very supportive to their workshops, etc. So it isn't very surprising that the well known pros who teach at the <A HREF="http://www.rmsp.com">Rocky Mountain School of Photography</A> such as Rowell, John Shaw and Middleton all use the Kirk ballhead, which is certainly very similar to the Arca Swiss B1.

[chuck_greene]

I bought the Kirk BH-1 head in part because of the 5 year warranty and the fact that all of the parts are corrosion resistant, I've had it for slightly less than a year and like it a lot.

 

The one thing that has started to annoy me slightly about the BH-1 is the tension adjustment. There is a very small region between having the head really loose and pretty tight, and it seems to drift around. Of course I should probably clean the head and it could be just be me bumping the tension adjustment knob more than I realize.

 

I really didn't even look at an ARCA Swiss, just the Kirk and the big Studioball, so perhaps I don't know what I'm missing, if anything, by not having an ARCA Swiss. Hope this helps.

[scott_laughlin]

I have a little to contribute here. First, Robert White is a wonderful place to do business with. The duty charge is hit or miss depending on whether customs picks your package for inspection. If so, it's 3% payable in cash to the carrier. Other than that, very reliable dealer! Be warned though, as of today (4/17/00), Robert White is also back ordered on the B-1.

 

Another thing you might want to keep in mind is that Kirk is also a 3 week lag between order and shipping. They don't really keep an inventory of the BH-1, and according to the sales person I spoke to they are consistantly 2-3 weeks behind.

[mike f]

I have never used the Arca or Kirk ball head and was very annoyed wtih all of the Bogen ball heads. Doing a workshop with Arthur Morris he was showing us ways to soften the arca "flop". He has since switched to the Wimberley and raves about it. I have had two wimberelys for about six months and never want to see another ball head for my 500 & 600 mm lens'. For the shorter glass I'm using Bogen 3046 (?) heads and they work very well and we do a LOT of nature photography, birds too.

 

Mike Forbes

[y._w._lee]

My comment is on the Arca Swiss B1. As AS has set the standards in ballhead design, you cannot go wrong with it. Everyboby seems to copy it and this has already proved it that it must be good! It is this simple. Furthermore, its price is about the same and why not just get it and be worry free about its performance. The problem is they are back ordered for a long time now.

 

I just got mine from Robert White in UK together with GITZO G1329 MKII carbon fiber tripod. I heartedly recommend Robert as he is very reputable and nice to do business with. I ordered mine and received them in one week time with everything as written. No gimmicks! He is very helpful and just a nice person to deal with. Ask for Robert.

 

Unfortunately, I just learnt that AS head is also back order from Robert as of April 17th. I got mine on the April 14th though. I was lucky then and may be it was the last unit! Mine is still new and do not know if the 'lock up' is still there or not. I will let you guys know later.

[charles_schutz]

BTW, you will not be saving any money if you buy the head form Robert white. But You will have a chance to deal with one of the best people in the businnes.

[ilkka_haapavirta1]

"The Kirk ball head is very similar to the Arca-Swiss. Using mine side by side with a friend's Arca only made me wonder if there isn't a copyright infringement problem with these -- they're that similar."

 

"2. The Kirk doesn't have the aspherical ball. In practice, I don't know what difference this really makes."

 

It can make a difference to Kirk. The Kirk - and also many other - ballheads are based on the older non-aspherical (spherical?) Arca Swiss design. The copyrights of that design might be expired by now.

 

Ilkka

[chuck_greene]

I don't know when Scott called Kirk, but I would call them myself to check on availability. I've bought a tripod, head, 4 QR plates, and a flash bracket from them, spread out over the last year and except for one QR plate they always had what I wanted in stock.

[tom_heinrich1]

I have owned and used the Kirk BH-1 for the last 6 months, and have been very satisfied with it. If I recall, I recieved the ballead about one week after I ordered it. I did however order it in the fall, which may be a low demand period.

 

I use my BH-1 with a 300 f2.8 lens, usually in combination with a 2X converter. This has yielded very sharp slides for me, when set up on a fairly heavey tripod. My Bogen 3221 wasn't substantial enough for this.

 

Many AS ballhead fans cite the desirability of increasing tension as the ball moves away from center. The lack of this feature has not presented me with any problems. The only problem I have experienced with my BH-1 is that the pan head starts to get fairly stiff as temperatures drop below about 20 degrees F. I emailed Kirk about this. Within one day I had a reply. I was told that the problem lay in the lubricant used in the base, and if I would send the ballhead back they would replace it at no cost.

 

In summary, Kirk is a responsive company to deal with, and they make a great product.

[bjn]

Perhaps someone knows this and I'd be curious to find out: it occurs to me the Arca lockup is likely a byproduct of the aspherical ball. If the ball can vibrate to where its wider aspect acts as a wedge within the socket mechanism, that would explain why Arca recommends leaving the mechanism loose during transport. If that's the case it would explain why Arca hasn't eliminated the problem... it's inherent to the design. The Arca owners who need the "anti flop" feature may have to live with the idiosyncracies; I'll look closely at the other choices.

[toan_nghiem]

Peter, there is a review of the Kirk's ball head by John Shaw at

WWW.Johnshawphoto.com you may want to read.

TN

[peter_van_zyl1]

Thanks very much for all the wonderful responses to my original question. I have decided to buy the Kirk BH-1 head, as it is evidently a product of substantial quality and workmanship, and I don't have to wait an eternity to get it.

 

Happy shooting!

 

Peter

[dennis_w]

I don't know about the Arca, but I like my Kirk. My only slight complaint is that the panning movement is a bit stiff. I called Kirk and they said "no problem". I could send it in and they'd adjust the tension. On a side note, this is an indestructible ballhead. I was carrying the Kirk and tripod on a walk out on the lava beds at Volcanoes NP in Hawaii. I tripped and fell very hard; the Kirk broke my fall. It's scratched up but functions as good as new.

[chris_calabro1]

This reply is a bit dated but I thought my experience with Kirk may be helpful. I ordered a BH-1 from Kirk in the amount of $339. That price includes a basic arca swiss plate. The order was placed on a friday and I was surprised that Kirk did not have stock on such a popular item. I was told that they could ship the following Friday sure. Well I patiently waited the week and called th following Friday. I was then told that it would be the following Tuesday. That would place this simple order out 10 business days. I stated that I needed this for the following Tuesday. So Kevin offered to ship it Fed Ex 2th day and they would get one out to me on the Friday as promised.

I went ahead with the order and did recieve it as promised on Tuesday. It was defective right out of the box. The ball tension knob would not tension the ball. After several hours of busy signals trying to reach Kirk I finally got through. They where very agreeable handling the return.

I have since ordered an Arca Swiss B1QR from Adorama. In stock for $350. This is a real ball head. My Kirk experience has me wondering why anone would bother with Kirk. Slow delivery, poor quality control, not much price difference. I would just save yourself the trouble and go Arca.

[doug_winola]

Sorry for the delay - i just joined Photo.net. maybe this info is too late - but I'kll put my 2 cents in.

I do not have any direct experience with the Kirk ball - but I have been using the big Graf Studioball for about 4 years now without any problems. This ball reminds me of the older styled Arca but with a better panoramic base (I think they use ball bearings)I also like safety lock on the plates. I have a mixture of Arca / graf / and others - they all seem to work great. No problem, very smooth.