Not another "What should I buy?" question!

[beauh44]

Hello All, I apologize in advance for asking some stupid questions

that have probably been asked to death already. I'm thinking about

taking the plunge into LF photography and was hoping for some advice.

I've been using a medium format system (Hasselblad) for a while, so

I'm not entirely green here - just mostly! My budget for an entry-

level camera is, at most, around $1400 and I realize this limits my

choices quite a bit. After looking at a review in Popular

Photography, I began looking at the Toyo CF camera, but then saw

numerous posts here about problems with them. Is this still the case?

I also saw mentioned a Shinhao camera that's apparently a bit more

difficult to get than calling B&H - but came highly recommended. The

Toyo 45CX looks good but seems to be Unobtanium at B&H anyway. Wista

also makes a few 4X5's that seem to be in my range. In addition, any

lens recommendations would be helpful. From what I've read a 120mm-

150mm should be a good place to start but if others feel differently,

I'd like to hear about it. (The Toyo kit that B&H sells has a 150/3,6

Gerenar lens - any comments on that?) Any pitfalls and "gotchas" to

look out for would also be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any

advice/wisdom anyone can impart to the rookie here. Best wishes...

[bob_salomon]

Currently a new Linhof Kardan M camera would be well under $1000.00 if you can use a

full featured, metal, lightweight monorail camera.

[david_goldfarb]

Why are you stuck on ordering from B&H? Try www.badgergraphic.com or www.mpex.com or www.calumetphoto.com or www.viewcamerastore.com.

 

Badger and The View Camera Store both carry the Shen Hao, which is probably offers the best combination of features in your price range, if you're looking for a wooden field camera. They offer kits as well with a normal lens and some of the things you'll need to get started. I just looked over at Badger Graphic, and the Shen-Hao HZX 4X5-IIA Introduction Kit looks like a really nice deal, actually, at around $1300 with a 150mm/5.6 Apo-Sironar N (better than the Geronar you mention), darkcloth, 6 filmholders, and cable release.

[robert_davis2]

You fail to mention what you want to use it for. Define that first. It will narrow your choices. Don't ignore used. Biggest gotcha is finding out you want to do X and your camera is best at Y. So spend some time figuring out what the camera will be used for.

[marco_frigerio]

Buy a Gandolfi Level 1, I have one and it's a wonderful camera, it has the versatility of a wooden field camera but with the rigidity of a metal one...my first LF lens was a Schneider APO Symmar 150mm. and I never regretted the choice, with this focal lenght you can do quite everything and learn without too many bellows extension/compression problems how to use camera movements...if you buy used I reccommend multicoated lens, you should be able to find on e**y some good choices, 150mm are very common and inexpensive...

[leonard_evens]

You should thoroughly explore the possibilities. Each choice involves balancing one factor against another. You have to decide what you are willing to do without for the present and what is most important to you.

 

See

 

www.viewcamera.com/archives.html

 

for articles on how to choose a view camera and on 4 x 5 cameras under $1200. You can also find a lot of useful information at the large format web page

 

www.largeformatphotography.info

 

Your public library may have one of the standard references on large format photography which you can browse to get some idea of what you are getting into.

 

One good thing about large format photography is that you can always sell the first camera you get and get one more suited to your needs. The lenses and other accesories will almost certainly be usable with the new camera. So you won't be locked into anything by your initial choice.

[ralph_barker]

As others have mentioned, it's good to read and do research before making your final initial decision. Both the retailers' and manufacturers' web sites are good resources, as are the archives here, in addition to the links that Leonard gave you. Trying to decide what features you need in advance is the tough part. Every decision is a matter of balancing the various trade-offs.

 

I'd add a couple of thoughts to the good advice you've already been given. First, don't discount the used market. A used Toyo 45 AX or AII, for example, may be about the same price as the new CX, but is far more camera. Also, give some thought to brands and models that fit into a system. When I got back into LF a few years back, for example, I initially bought an entry-level Toyo 45C monorail for the added flexibility that a monorail provides in the studio. I figured that I could also lug it into the field when I needed to. Doing so, however, turned out to be a huge inconvenience. So, I added a Toyo 45AX field camera later. As both fit into the Toyo system, some components are interchangeable between the two cameras - lens boards, backs, etc. So, I can still use both without it being a big issue.

 

As to lens choices, think about how you "see" things, and what focal lengths you tend to use the most with medium format. Then, do the equivalence conversion for the larger format. Or, wander around with a viewing frame like http://www.rbarkerphoto.com/misc/FramingAid1-500bw.jpg (knots at various focal lengths) to get an idea of which focal lengths you like with 4x5. Personally, I find that I do about 80% of my work with either a 110mm Schneider Super Symmar XL or a 210mm APO Symmar. Other focal lengths get some use, but not nearly as much as those two.

[cxc]

I found the biggest decision was between a field (fold-up style) and a monorail design. I decided on and bought a field, and immediately decided I needed a monorail instead. I'm not sure this decision can be made before actually trying both.

 

You can find a field with massive movements, or a monorail that travels easily, so the difference has to do with working style and personal preference as much as anything.

 

New, the low-end fields are perfectly good cameras; I had a Shen-Hao that I would recommend without reservation to anybody who wanted one. Tachihara is another good affordable brand.

 

New monorails at the very low-end are not so hot; I would avoid the cheapest of the Calumet and Toyo offerings: go up a notch.

 

I would advise consider buying used. An LF camera is a pretty simple machine -- as long as the glass and bellows are intact, it will probably do the job; a lot safer to buy the camera used than the lenses. My favorite camera is a 4x5 Gowland that I got off the 'Bay for $350.

 

My 2 cents,

 

CXC

[david_karp]

I second thinking about used equipment. You will get a lot more for your money.

 

I suggest calling Jim at Midwest Photo Exchange. Tell him what you are thinking about doing with a view camera, and he will help you make a choice on what might be "right" for you. He knows what he is talking about, is very straightforward, and will give you a good deal. I have purchased lenses and other accessories from him, and have been very happy. Midwest has a wide variety of used (and new) cameras and lenses, so he should be able to provide almost anything you might want. There are other sellers that people have discussed here, like Jeff at Badger Graphics in WI, and Rod at Photomark in AZ. I have not purchased from them, but have heard good things about them.

[øyvinddahle]

Find a 1950s Crown Graphic with a lens (127-135mm) and some kind of warrant. You will find them for around $200 (used). Then you need a goood 4-6x loupe ($50-$100), an extra black t-shirt $10, a tripod $100, a 545 Polaroid holder $100 and two packs of '52' or '57' film $50. $460 is gone.

 

Use it to see if you need more: longer or shorter lenses, more bellows draw, bigger camera (5x7 or 8x10), more movements, more flashy camera, negative film? try 55! someone to go shooting with, a lens shade, filters, screwdrivers, a bigger car, a new enlarger, a new wi.. d:D

 

A good choice for a lens is 210, the longest '5.6' lens you can put in to a Copal 1 - you will find plenty of them used and it's useful for portraits and landscape. Then it would be OK to have the original 127 or 135 which follows the camera. Then you find out if you need a third lens, and if it is going to be shorter or longer than the 135 and 210. Just remember to crop, so a longer lens should be at least 300 (360). The longest lens is usually determid by your bellows draw, mine is a 480 Apo-Ronar, single coated.

 

The difference between single and multicoating is from 95 to 99%, while the difference from no-coating (NC) to single coating (SC) is from 70 to 95% light transmitting. So if you buy a largeformat zoom (e.g. Fuji 155-195/8 fixed aperture, no shutter), be shure it's MC ;-) You can even take good pictures with good contrast with NC-lenses.

[pvp]

See Robert Davis' remarks for the best advice. Decide what you need, then worry about what fit that need. If you'll be doing studio photography, or your idea of nature is like Weston's (near the car) you'll do OK with a monorail. The downside, of course, is that they don't transport as easily as field cameras.<P>

I decided on a monorail when I entered LF, not because of transportability but because I wanted to have every possible movement and adjustment so I could better learn the workings of the camera (the jury's still out on that.) I got a Calumet 540 in great condition, with hard case, 2 lenses (6" and 10") a pile of film holders, etc. for less than a grand. Expect to pay a bit more for the same quality in a field camera.

[beauh44]

Wow!! Thanks everybody!! It looks like I have much to digest before taking the plunge. Thanks too to all the folks who responded personally with some very interesting used equipment for me to look at. I'll reply as soon as I can dig out of all my emails. BTW, I don't have any particular allegiance to B&H - I was just using them as a sort of reference point. I definitely need to check out some of the other suggested URLs. This probably won't be the last stupid question and I really appreciate everyone's patience here - you guys rock! Thanks again and best wishes . . .

[john_gerndt1]

Everyone seems to want to put you into a 4x5. Consider 5x7 and 8x10 too. Consider the contact print. Just think about it. Then go seek out some contact prints and take a long hard look. There is more available than camera movements in LF, there is a whole new way of rendering light.

 

John

[canon man]

I myself am getting a monorail this time around and intend on using it for feild work. Why? I want all the movements. I had a Newton dualrail that was considered a feild camear by everyone who saw it but it did not fold up so I had the same portability as a flatbed with some of the advantages of a monorail minus the rise of the rear standard, although the rear did tilt and swing. I intend on buying a nice and solid monorail and am looking at an Omega having loved the durability and craftsmanship of my Omega enlarger.

 

As for transportability, I will end up carrying it in a bag with stiffened sides that can be slung on my shoulder or after it gets here may try and modify my LowePro back pack to accommodate it. I can also get help from my wife in carrying so that can aid in the solution too. We do everything together which kind of reminds me of Christopher Burkette whose wife goes out with him in the feild when they feild work. christpher Burkette takes an 8x10 into the feild so....

 

I would also haver to recommend ebay. I get most of my gear there anymore. I am bidding on my amera right now and looking at the rest of the gear such as film holders lenses and such. A lot cheaper than going through B&H and Adorama.