Contax 645 vs. Rollei 6008AF

[stephane_park]

Hello all.

 

Well, I reluctantly sold my Hassy 503CW - with the little use I was

making of it, I could not justify holding on to it... I was just not

adept enough to use it without a prism finder and possibly TTL meter,

novice that I am.. Though it is a machine with tremendous appeal, I

got rid of it, wishing to get something more user friendly.

 

Now I am torn between a contac 645 set up and rollei 6008. With the

contax, I am somewhat familiar with the problems with battery usage

and some issues with the fit of the backs (actually I am not sure

about this second one) some complaints about the slow AF (its still

better than nothing I am sure) - the other issue is whether Contax

will issue a new and improved model II in the future. Does a

purchase of a C645 still make sense at this time?

 

With the 6008AF - I know the machine exists because the on-line

stores list them as in stock, but is anyone actually using it? I see

no commentary or review on it. Have the AF lenses come out yet?

What is the AF speed like? I am sure the price will be consistent

with the traditionally high prices of this line.

 

I would appreciate any advice for a new potential purchaser of either

of these two machines.

 

Many thanks

[andrew booth]

If you buy based on internet recommendations, rather than trying these for yourself, you're likely to make the same mistake again. You need to hire both and actually use them. As you've found out, other people's opinions count for NOTHING when you're trying to find out what the best camera is for you. For what it's worth I moved over to the 503CW, and I think it's ideal.

 

If you live in a city and can't find anywhere stocking or hiring either of these, then if I were you, I'd consider that as a big minus in terms of system support, and availability of lenses/accessories.

 

What are you planning to photograph? Without knowing that it's also impossible to advise. Do you need to balance flash and daylight? If so, I'd go for the Rollei with its leaf shutters every time. If not, I'd avoid the Rollei - they're heavy for a 6x6, and I find them uncomfortable to hold (I'd get an RZ if I wanted to tote 2.5kg).

 

Did you consider the Pentax 645, Mamiya 645, Bronica ETRSi or Hasselblad H1 of you're looking for hand holdable cameras? The Pentax is a great little camera at a good price and I'd consider it seriously.

 

Are you ready for either of the cameras you're considering? I'd suggest you concentrate on practicing and improving your skills rather than hopping from camera to camera. Mastering a manual camera like a 503CW will do you a whole lot more good in the long term if you want to improve your craft.

[tor_kviljo1]

Hello Stephane

You are in a luxury situation it seems, being able to decide between three of the most expensive (& good!) MF's around! I have experience with various hasselblads (500/500EL/2000FC/M) and Rolleis (SLX, 6006, 6008i) so I can comment on them, however not on the Contax.

I must say I am quite disagree with the former comments, that You ought to go for the 503W to learn the basic: The 500-series is about the last in the breed not to have a built in meter and other facilities that You expect in a pro MF camera - I don't see the reason to learn rather outdated ways of working when the newer MF-systems is helping You of. In using Hasselblad, I got used to take my time and use the separate meter extensively. However, in situations where speed were important, metering were so and so (quick mid-scene metering and then swap to camera & go), and number of incorrect exposed frames increased.. Selling the blad's some yeas ago, I bought a Rollei 6006 with a SLX-II as back-up (never had to use it as back up, so it were used as b & W camera) - both performing perfectly, but the SLX-II being replaced with a 6008i w/6450 mag's about a year ago. The 6008i is a fantastic camera, and using the spot meter, I do the same as I did with the separate meter, but much faster, more accurate (filter factor incorporated when metering) and with numerous metering-options. The camera is of cource instant return mirror (how the blad still lives with that non-instant return mirror on the 500 -series is a mystery - or religion..) and a very fast motordrive. The info. in the display is adequate - indicating most of what You expect in a modern SLR. Using the speed-grip (included accesory with the 6008) - the camera is very good also hand-held - definitely not difficult to hold or handle. The handle pivots & locks at desired angle. I have used mine for aerial photo from both chopper & cessna which is certainly "fast" work. The 6450 mag's I can not praise high enough: You swich from vertical to horizontal in about three seconds - thus it being the only 6x6/645 camera easily used for vertical 645 photos (except Hasselblad with those unobtainable & rare A16 "V" magazines once made). The 6450 magazine option + a much bigger second-hand marked + available of less expensive camera bodies for back-up is important reasons why I would advice You to buy the 6008i over the 645 format-only Contax. The best thing is of cource to be able to use the cameras for some time prior to purchase, but if that is not possible - at least get yourself to a big enough city so that You can fiddle with both models a couple of hours! - using a few thousand $$ on a camera deserves that kind of attention.

 

As You notis, I do not have the 6008AF, but I did try it on the photo fair in Norway this spring - with the hughe & hideously expensive 180mm 2,8 Schneider AF. I am not an AF expert - but my Dynax 9 (Minolta's pro-35mm) have learnt me what to expect. I found the Rollei AF fast & accurate (no "hunting" as with my old Nikon F4), but I did not get to test it in "difficult" conditions, nor with other lenses. My hartful recommendations is that the 6008i is worthwile buying without the AF facility..

 

Good luck + let us hear how Your camera-hunting ends!

[dale_dickerson2]

Stephane,

 

I agree with tor kviljo's comments about the Hassy.

 

I use the 6008 Pro. At some point I plan to buy the AF. Not for the af lenses, but to have the focus confirmation with my current lenses. The 645 back on the Rollei is a very nice plus over the Contax.

 

Bob Shell reviewed the AF camera this spring in shutterbug. He was very impressed. He noted using the focus confirmation with a manual lens gave a degree of accuracy not possible using the just the screen! The speed of the camera using AF was fast.

 

The Contax is great camera. It is the best of 645 cameras. I looked at it before buying the 6008. What caused my to buy Rollei was choice of Zeiss or Scheider lenses, choice to use 645 or 6x6, range of lenses on the used market, battery life, the metering system and the Rollei grip. I am left handed and a right handed grip is not best for me. However the Rollei grip works very well in my right hand. My only problem being left handed is the speed switch for the film drive. I need to use my left hand for that. Since I set it at the start of a shoot, it has not been a major problem. The Rollei 6000 series cameras are amazing and very user friendly.

 

I hope you are able to try both the Contax and the Rolleiflex.

[steven_palow]

i hope you arent like me and live in an area where there is NO pro camera market and nothing close by either.

 

i am an extremely happy owner of the contax system with 4 lenses (35, 80, 120, 210) and several little goodies that go along with it. one of the most important goodies is the D-cell power pack bc as you know the contax has a nasty rep of eating batteries like a mad man. i just wear it on a belt or tether it to my tripod when i work and havent had a problem since.

 

im hardly and expert on cameras but i will say that you seem to be deliberating between the best 2 choices IMHO. im sure the mamiya is great too and possibly a better value, than the contax, but i got to handle one briefly after i had my contax system and felt confident i made the right decision...though i could have just been lying to myself ; ) i think the contax AF is fine. sure i wish it was faster, who doesnt, but i assure you its faster than me manually focusing and probably a lot more accurate. i had no illusions of blazing speed going into it, so im ok with it. it can tend to hunt a little under poor conditions, but so do i, but with a little manual help we tend to agree on what looks good.

 

a quick OPINION on the H1. from the specs ive seen and reviews ive read, i dont know if the extra cost over the contax is extra performance.

 

that brings me to the rollei. this is the only other camera that is tempting to me. im really not a fan of the square, though i might become one if i shot it often, but the thing id really like about the 6008af would be using their rotating back to shoot vertically very easily, instead of tilting the whole shabang.

 

the shutter system choice really comes down to how you will use it. i shoot 99% B&W with continuous lighting so the focal plan shutter is ok for me most of the time, but i often wish i could shoot high shutter speeds and stop action in the studio with strobes, which is obviously where the rollie would be superior.

 

on the other hand if you ever shoot outside with lots of light i think the contax would be the winner with its top shutter speed of 4000th/sec, but im sure the rolleis is plenty fast too for most anything (1000th if im not mistaken).

 

bottom line, i have the contax and am quite happy with it. im not looking to get out of it anytime soon. if contax does a new body, particularly with multi auto focus points and an auto focus that hunts a little less in tough conditions, ill be with them for a long, long time. if i were just about to get into med format id have a hard time saying no to the rollei. 6x6 option, rotating backs for 645, and what appears to be a great focus confirmation feature would be tough to refuse...if you can wait for the lenses to show up (my understanding of why there arent many reviews anywhere)

 

i hope this helps you some, but im sure which ever one you choose you will be quite happy with. best of luck to you and take care.

 

steven

[stephane_park]

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments.

You have all given me a lot to think about...

 

 

My thanks again!

[fotografz]

This is a little bit like apples and oranges. The Contax is

smaller, lighter, quick and agile...more like an SLR in handling.

The 6008AF is a big camera, one that I position more as a studio

camera.

 

For extended shooting of the Contax, there is a battery grip that

lasts seemingly forever. The Contax Kits come with a prism

finder. Focusing could be a bit faster in some low light

conditions, but it allows immediate manual take-over without any

switches. You can use Hasselblad lenses and accessories via

an adapter and retain focus confirmation. It has a built-in TTL

flash meter. The 1/125th sync speed is useable in most lighting,

and when not, a single ND filter can be had for under $100 that

solves that occassional problem on all but one of the lenses.

Top speed is 1/4000th which is very valuable when shooting f/2

glass wide open to isolate subjects in brighter conditions.

 

In the end, your real investment will be in lenses not the body.

What system you go with is a lens question, because the bodies

are sure to change. And there is the digital question. The current

Contax 645 is digital ready right out of the box. Pentax 645 is not

,and the Rollie is not as far as I know (at least not from Kodak).

[william_yu]

I am a very happy owner of the Contax 645. I have not looked at the Rollei and can not comment on it. I have looked at Mamiya 645 and Pentax 645 before decided on the Contax. I have read about problems on the Mamiya 645 on the Mamiya website, and Pentax suffers from a slow flash sync speed (1/60 sec) and no interchangable back.

 

I own the Contax 35, 55, 80, 120, and 210 mm lenses, all with excelent sharpness and contrast. 1/125 sec flash sync is fine with me in almost all outdoor pictures. ( I am not a pro wedding photographer, who might want to use wide open aperture. I tend to stop down to increase depth of view.) The power grib will solve the battery problem and you do not need to flip your hands shooting vertical. 4 AA batteries can last at least eight rolls of 220. You can also buy 2CR5 batteries at good price at Sunnbattery.com. I use the split micro-prism focusing screen and try to focus mannually as much as I can, but the auto focus is pretty fast and works fine under the studio modeling lights.

 

Other unique features of the Contax is data imprint on the edge of the film, and built-in flash meter.

 

I have found the Contax 645 is similar to the Canon EOS 3 that I sold before buying the Contax in many ways. Hope this helps.

[wim_van_velzen]

Hi Stephane,

<p>

The main difference between these cameras is not in quality or features, but in format.

<p>

Do you like the square? Do you do much of your shooting from a tripod, making verticals with the Contax more cumbersome than the Rollei?

<p>

I think this is the decisive point here.

<p>

<a href="http://www.fotografiewimvanvelzen.nl">Wim, square & Rollei enthousiast!</a>

[d. light]

Three things have made me prefer the Contax:

 

Noise: The C is quite a lot more silent than the R.

 

Handling: Both cameras with prism- the C is a lot smaller.

 

Lenses: On the used market you can get lots of terrific lenses that can be used via adapter, still to operate with AE in centerweighted mode and focus confirmation.

for ex. a 250SA can be used with vaccum back utilising the potential possibly better than any Hasselblad body. (unless you want it square of course)