I am a Beginner :) I Need Your Help about Nikon F80

[constance_cook]

Jean-Baptiste has good points in his first post (not to say he doesn't in subsequent posts).

 

When I bought my first camera I was a real beginner. I bought a Nikon 5005. I still have it. All I wanted was to get travel photos and learn some about photography because I had some background in art so I had some aesthetic learning. But I didn't know an f-stop from a bus stop. I bought a book at the same time and cornered my neighbor on the street. He is a pro and I asked him for a quick set up. He gave me f8 and be there and explained a bit about depth of field and said goodby. I set out for Asia with my camera and had a great time and got some pretty nice photos given my limitations and those of the camera. (BTW, one of the good things about the old N5005 is that it will lock up if you try to do something that's not reasonable.) When I came home, I could see some good things and some things that just didn't work out. I kept reading and asking questions. We have 2 pros at the university who were always willing to give me advice. I shot many more rolls of film and as I read, saw my problems, grew more interested, I took more and more control over the camera.

 

Now I use both auto and manual focus cameras. I have a bunch of Nikon cameras and I use the one that best suits what I intend to do. But I have a choice.

 

It is likely I would have returned to a p&s if I had started with a manual camera because it would have gotten in my way when I wanted to make photos. And no -- I'm not mentally unable to handle learning. I work with maths every day in production operations.

 

If you want to get newbies really excited about anything, get them so excited about it that they can't wait to pick it up again and learn more. If they are really interested, they will learn how to overide the camera's auto-everything. If they aren't, they won't. But they won't have something they just decide is not worth it that sits on a shelf. You're either interested enough to get to manual focus or you're not, and forcing it turns some into video camera people.

 

It's almost impossible to find a manual shift auto now without a special order. And yet no one says to new drivers, you will have more control and understand better how the power train works. I love manual focus cars. I love my manual focus cameras. But I can do manual focusing on all my autofocus cameras and I do when it suits. But when it doesn't, I have autofocus available.

Conni

[wind.dk]

Funny debate about wether an F80 or FM3a is easier to learn to use. If you know the basics of photography you hardly even need to open the manual of the FM3a. If you don't, any of the two are complete overkill.

 

What's more, when I let someone else (without any particular photographic knowledge) take a couple of pictures with my FM3a or my F80, the results are usually better (such as in focus) with the manual FM3a than the automated F80.

 

It doesn't take an hour to learn to use a FM3a, it takes a couple of minutes. It does take an hour to read the manual of the F80, and by then you can only remember half the buttons, and not necessarily the ones you need next day.

 

I wouldn't want to be without either, as both have their advantages, but to begin with, I'd recommend the FM3a. It will continue to be useful even if you eventually discover you need the features of an automated professional or high-end amateur camera.

 

Better still, get a second-hand body of some earlier version of the FM3a and a good lens. Less money wasted if you discover it isn't for you.

[donald_choi]

<<I see no point whatsoever in buying a camera with auto exposure and autofocus then switching it all off.>>

 

Harvey, sometimes I find that I MUST turn off autofocus for greater control over my depth-of-field. I find that in doing some landscape photography, my F100 tends to want to focus right at infinity and I lose a lot of DOF. So I have to set my focus manually to maximize my DOF.

 

However, with that said, I must admit that 85% of the time, I'm on autofocus.... simply because I'm too lazy.

[nazir200_200]

mr.shaman...

ha.ha.ha...well done..you just ignited the thread of fire works.

i am sure that now you are really confused.

i have f80 now.(i am in photography since last 5 years).i started with

minolta autofocus..by the time i felt i need some creativity..then turned to pentax mz ..then to fm2..(it was a gem ..which will force u to learn and unfortunately it was lost during travel.for 1 year i didnt had a camera...finally now with f80.

i have only 2 words for you.

autofocus slr are like battery driven or spring driven toy cars..most of the time the child who plays with that have no controls......while

manual focus slrs are tools which will stimulates your ideas and will learn you the aspects of photography snap by snap.

when you are become more familiar with the basics by experience

then you could think about these completely automated bodies.(i have no complaints about my f80's features.but...that doesn"t mean everything about auto focus cameras are acceptable)

decide indipendly...enjoy shooting..nazir

[briany]

Okay, on to your second question. As I said, I have the 50/1.8 and have been immensely pleased. I love knowing that what I take will be rendered by glass that is optically near-perfect.<br>

<br>

If I knew I was going to take pictures of fast-moving near objects (kids/pets) I would probably get the AF-S 24-85 mm f/3.5-4.5 G IF-ED Nikkor. If you've never shot an AF-S lens, go to a dealer and try one. They focus Incredibly fast. Canon has more of these, called USM in their line, but Nikon is releasing more all the time. Oh, and the Alphabet Soup problem.. that's an Auto Focus Silent wave G type lens (no aperture ring--won't work with older cameras) with Internal Focusing elements and Extra low Dispersion glass!!!!!<br>

<br>

If I were shooting protraits or fashion, maybe an 85, 105, or the popular 80-200, which is also good for big close animals and ~$1000.<br>

<br>

For flowers, the Micro Nikkors are great. If you're interested in closeups, it's a Whole 'nother bag; come back and ask another question or search the archives for lenses, close-up 'filters', reversing rings, and extension tubes.<br>

<br>

The bottom line is do a Lot of research.. I've included a few links below. Personally, I still say go with the 50/1.8 You'll never be disappointed with the quality, you can shoot in Very low light, it's $100, and using it extensively will give you a good idea of a) what you like to shoot and b) what focal length you should consider next to cover the shortcomings of the 50mm's field of view.<br>

<br>

<a href=http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_surv.html> http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_surv.html</a><br>

<a href=http://www.naturfotograf.com/bestof.html> http://www.naturfotograf.com/bestof.html</a> (His Rough list of the best Nikkors. The 50/1.8 is here, and all the zooms on this page are > $1500)<br>

<a href=http://www.cs.kau.se/~nicke/private/photo/> http://www.cs.kau.se/~nicke/private/photo/</a><br>

<a href=http://home.aut.ac.nz/staff/rvink/history.html> http://home.aut.ac.nz/staff/rvink/history.html</a>

[klix]

First of all, let's back up, and ask the questions below to narrow down your choices (and NO, I'm not trying to fan the flames):<p><p>

 

<ul>

<li>Budget - High / Medium / Low

<li>Primary Purpose or Use?

<li>Film or Digital?

<li>If film, AF or MF?

<li>Nikon or Brand X?

<li>Lens options?

</ul>

<p><p>

You're really the only one who can answer these questions for your own photography.

[h._p.]

>>sometimes I find that I MUST turn off autofocus for greater control over my depth-of-field<<

 

That's a good point. There are things you can't do with automatic and then it makes sense to learn how to do it manually. But my point was simply to counter the "you MUST use a manual camera or you're not a real photographer" nonsense that gets trotted out here all the time and which I suspect frightens off people who might otherwise take great pleasure from photography.

[hugh_t]

Why does someone need to "learn the basics" and do everything manually?? What's more important, the final image or how it was made?? Mr Armas, when people are admiring your work do they care if you hand metered or manually focused??? I think not. As a beginner it's more important to get the shot than to dwell on knowing how to meter and focus. Great shots are made everyday with $80 Stylus Epic Olympus cameras. My point was, and I guess it wasn't clear so I apologize, that if you are a beginner why not have a camera with a program mode and auto focus that can be as easy to use as a point and shoot, and also can be used in a fully manual mode when the situation dictates?? The easier the camera (for a beginner) is to use the more likely he will have it when the great shot arises. The N80/F80 can be great right out of the box, load the batteries, snap on the lens, set it to program mode and fire away, spend more time on composition than on metering and focusing. As the skills improve use the manual overrides and refine your skills. FWIW, in addition to my N80 I do have an FE2 which I also enjoy using greatly.

[chuck_greene]

An N80 and a 50mm f1.8 lens is a good starter outfit. It may turn out to be all the camera you ever want or need.

 

KEH camera brokers has used N80 bodies in ex condition for around $300

 

www.keh.com

[Allen Herbert]

What's more important, the final image not how it was made was made.

 

So true. Gear never made a good photographer. It's all about the photographer. So simple.

[markrupert]

While gearheads and camera snobs may turn up their noses at the N80 because "it's not considered a professional camera body" and its not sturdy enough to use in a war zone or a hurricane, it is in fact a perfectly good camera for a developing amateur shooter. It can be used in fully manual mode for the "back-to-basics" learning experience some have advocated, but is has quite a number of sophisticated features which -- as your photography skills develop -- you will come to appreciate and use more frequently. In other words, this is a camera which provides plenty of room to grow into. I bought one when they were first released and I've been very pleased with mine.

 

BTW: to get the most from your camera and begin to learn when, why and how to use its more sophisticated features,I strongly recommend that you get Thom Hogan's Complete Guide to the N-80 (ebook on CD ROM): www.bythom.com/n80guide.htm.

 

have a great time!

 

Mark

[bobar57]

"What's more important, the final image or how it was made?? Mr Armas, when

people are admiring your work do they care if you hand metered or manually

focused??? I think not. As a beginner it's more important to get the shot than

to dwell on knowing how to meter and focus."

 

Hugh....,I'm in the photo teenager phase. I'm not a beginner,but I'm not not a dedicated amateur ;).The only people that look at my work are my family and friends and they don't care much, they have their minds in other business, so here I'm comtemplating my photos and to me it cares.

 

Someone mentioned later that all is in the photographer.So true...

My friend pick the camera that is easy to you to handle,sturdy, easy in the pocket and have fun!.

Good luck,

Robert

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"I see no point whatsoever in buying a camera with

auto exposure and autofocus then switching it all off." --harvey

platter<br>

</em><br>

So your camera always knows when you want shallow DOF to make

your subject stand out against the background or when you want

everything in focus near to far and selects the proper aperture,

every time. Ill bet your camera know exactly where to focus

even if your primary subject is not the nearest object to the

camera. <br>

<br>

I see no point in buy a camera with auto exposure and autofocus

and letting it make crucial esthetic decisions. I didnt say

I see not point in buy an auto-wonder. I have one. Someday I may

even use program mode, who knows?<br>

<br>

---<br>

<br>

<em>"It doesn't take an hour to learn to use a FM3a, it

takes a couple of minutes. It does take an hour to read the

manual of the F80, and by then you can only remember half the

buttons, and not necessarily the ones you need next day." --Ivar

Wind Skovgaard<br>

</em><br>

Hell if you know how to use a Kodak Vigilant Six-20 you can shoot

a Kardan Master GTL or Pentax K1000, no instructions needed. It

may take a while to master swings and tilts on a view camera but

its an easier camera to use than a Nikon F5. OK, so Ive

never used a Kardan Master GTL (I wish) but I do own a Kardan

Colour 45S and there are three basic controls: Aperture, Shutter

and Focus just like the Nikon FM3a. <br>

__<br>

<br>

<em>"my point was simply to counter the "you MUST

use a manual camera or you're not a real photographer"

nonsense that gets trotted out here all the time" --harvey

platter<br>

</em><br>

If you are properly motivated you can learn with most any camera

but the auto-wonder is the harder path. <br>

<br>

Im a real person whether Im using my Canon Elph Jr.,

Nikon F5 or Vigilant Six-20. But I learned primarily with a Nikon

F (non-metered), 24/2.8, 55/3.5 Micro, 105/2.5, Gossen Super

Pilot and some books from Ansel Adams. This is the easier path. <br>

<br>

---<br>

<br>

"The snapshooter is satisfied with anything the camera

gives; the professional only with what he or she can make it

yield. In between stands the student who thinks he is "supposed"

to want something, and wonders what." White, Zakia,

Lorenz

[lachaine]

I owned a Pentax K1000 for the past 16 years (preceded by an SP1000, a K2 and an MX). Didn't use it much for the past 10 years though. Got interested again recently. I got an F80, but I found the many modes and systems very distracting. Got an FM3a instead. Now, when I look at my photos, I have the satisfaction of knowing I was in control, and I made the decisions, not a microprocessor. I see no point in doing photography if all I do is look in the viewfinder and press the button. Moreover, using a camera like the FM3a doesn't require forking over any money to Thom Hogan for an eBook, as the F80 does. However, I have to say that in terms of current autofocus SLRs, the F80 is all the camera one needs.

[constance_cook]

You don't need an e-book. The manual is all you need. Akmost all of the functions are set once to suit your particualr needs and then you leave them alone. The F/N80 is a terrific camera and suits many needs. It works like it should, looks good, and robust enough for any normal use.

Conni

[midsummertiger]

I have used the Nikon N80 for some time now and it is a wonderful camera. Before I had the N80 I used the N70 and was just as happy with it as well.

It is my firm belief that Nikon is a great brand and that you should get the camera that you feel happy with, and can afford. You will also need to budget for lenses as well. If you by the most expensive body, you will have less for your lenses.

If you would like to see some of my images taken with the N80, head over to http://midsummer-us.org/photo/

 

PS: If anyone just wants to buy me the D100 or some fast lenses, feel free. ;) I really need them. *end grovel*

[craig_steuart]

1. Unless you have deep pockets leave the F100.

2. As far as Manual or auto, the N/F80 can be as simple OR as complicated as you wish it to be..

3. With a beginner, you need something thats easy to use and gives good results right from the start. Otherwise interest wanes.

4. Yes the "80" has a lot of option/custom settings, but like a car with 400 horse power, it doesn't mean you have to use all 400 horse power. Until you want to, or need to.

5. Bottom line is, go look in person, ask questions, any of the above cameras will give as good, or better a picture than 90% of us are able to shoot..

6. Most important, Have FUN !!

[david_blackburn1]

hello! i am also a beginner. i did quite a bit of research before i got my first SLR a couple of months ago. a lot here, a lot elsewhere, but i honestly cant remember where else i looked, this site i found the most useful ( i did look at a couple of the links posted above). i looked at a few cameras from the bottom level canons and nikons up to n80, elan 7 (eos30? in europe??). also looked at the fm3a. i decided on the n80 in the end because it had all i thought i would need to grow into. i chose the n80 over the fm3a becuase it was cheaper. that was the only reason. i got a 50/1.8 lens with it, and i am very pleased with the combo. i would suggest learning about apertures and DOF (depth of field, dont know if that was defined or not). i mainly shoot in aperture priority now, and dont think i have ever used full program mode. have used full manual mode a couple of times. i use both manual and auto focus. if you have never played with aperture and shutter speed, i would say you might want to use the P mode of the n80. if you are willing to learn quickly, the fm3a may be the way to go. the fm3a can use the older manual focus lenses. the n80 is pretty much useless with manual focus lenses, which limits the availability of used lenses. this is probably my main problem with the n80. sorry this is so long, i know this thread is probably long enough as it is. just to wrap up, i loev my n80 + 50/1.8. i would like to use the older manual focus lenses. do check B&H prices, also adorama. also, most definitely check the static content on this site, it helped me out immensely.

[gib]

You're sure that buying the camera from Germany is better than buying it in Canada? I guess you did the research but, I am surprised.

[sam_portera]

You have a lot of a good advice hear and some bad as well. Let me share mine with you.

 

I have an N80 (F80), FM and a Leica M6 ( a manual rangefinder body). My first camera was an FE. Strating with a manual camera makes you think about F stops and shutter speeds and also selective focus. Yes the N80 with its mircro computer will usually do a good job of choosing all of this on its own but not always. Do you really want the chance a once in a lifetime shot on autoexposure or do you want be certain that you get it using your own head. Now I usually only use the N80 with flash it shines very well in this area. When I do take it out shooting I usully use center weighted metering (the same that the FM uses) and shoot in manual mode. I like the control and for B&W there is NO other way to get exactly what you want.

 

So to those who have said automation is key I say Do you want to take a photograph or MAKE a photograph.

 

My usual advice to those that tell me they want to LEARN photography (not just take pictures) is to buy a manual camera and start shooting slide film. Slide film will let you see exactly where you went wrong.