Some observations on shooting street with the Z8

[John Di Leo]

With my recent posts, one could get the impression that I am whining about the z8...I am not. It is a remarkable camera. The sensor is great in capturing colors, the focus system is spot on, it feels good in the hand, it is a rugged workhorse, however...

It has some limitations and they are likely physics and not a fault, but they are there. I suspect these limitations likely are applicable to all mirrorless cameras.

The major issue is the lag between putting the camera to your eye and being ready to shoot.

Most of the time it is not an issue, and for most of photogs, prob a complete non issue, but I just experienced where it IS an issue and that is shooting revelers at Mardi Gras in New Orleans (and to a lesser extent shooting street in NYC). The commonality is that you have to be quick on the draw and the shoot; the camera can't slow you down.

Sometimes revelers will be isolated and you can have the time it takes for the camera to awaken, no big deal. But sometimes, the pace is frantic and people are walking past quickly. With my old d810 I could always just pull the camera up to my eye, get focus relatively quickly and shoot, then everyone moves on. With the z8, or likely any mirrorless, the camera has to be awake, then put up to the eye find focus and shoot. A gross estimate is that it adds about 1-2 seconds to the process over a dslr. It could be less than that, but it seems LONG to me and sometimes to the subject.

This can be a problem because the people being shot may not have that much patience to await the camera to awaken, then find focus. Most of the time they do, but not always, especially if they are on their way somewhere. I know 1-2 seconds doesn't sound like a lot, but in the circumstance described it feels for all concerned that it is. And if the subject is only willing to give you 3-4 sec to get the shot, it makes for missed shots. It they are patient...non issue, but patience is a virtue not all possess.

So, I started riding the shutter button, to be sure the camera was always awake and that helped but not completely.

Next, the sub selector joystick moves the focus point inadvertently too easily and unbeknownst to the user until you put the camera to your eye and try to find the sometimes hard to find focus box—often down in the corner somewhere. This prompted my forum question about how to lock the box into place (f4 menu item does this), but being able to just turn off that function in the sub selector(only) would help a lot—can that be done? That function could still be controlled by the multiselector. the new firmware version makes the focus box easier to see, and that will help.

Next, sometimes even though it appears that you took a picture, nothing shows as a captured image after the "click." This may not be related to quick action and occurs rarely, but I've seen it happen, ie I trip the shutter, hear the click, and nothing was captured. Also when this happens it seems that the camera locks up in a way. I can still see a live view through the LCD or VF, but that is the only thing that is working, no shutter availabity, no effect when exp comp is pressed, and I cannot scroll through my images. It is obvious quickly, and turning the camera off then back on restores all functionality (Delkin Devices Black 150gb CFX card). I've only seen this 4-6 times in 2500 + captures. I do not think it is user error.

These are issues that I can live with considering the quality of the images produced and the WOW dynamic range and the colors, but they prevent this camera from functioning as a grab and shoot quickly camera. I know that is not something to aspire to in a $4k camera, but honestly, sometimes you just need that functionality.

On the attached image, I had all the time I needed. This is reduced 50% from the original.

Again, do want to start any kind of war of words, but just some observations and may as I mature with the z8 I can learn better how to address these things.

[mike_halliwell]

Regarding 'Wake-up' time..... Carry a few extra batteries and don't let it sleep at-all.

c3.. Standby Timer... No Limit.

[ilkka_nissila]

You can also shorten the EVF activation time by setting the monitor mode to "Viewfinder Only" or "Viewfinder Priority 1/2". These are changed by pressing the button to the left of the viewfinder.

 

[John Di Leo]

Thanks for the tips. Useful info.

[John Di Leo]

Any ideas on the dropped images? User error? Known issue? Card issue? Or does it get filed under "who knows" and always chimp your shots?

[ilkka_nissila]

11 hours ago, John Di Leo said:

Any ideas on the dropped images? User error? Known issue? Card issue? Or does it get filed under "who knows" and always chimp your shots?

Do you have focus priority set on focus, release or release+focus? I can imagine that when in focus priority there may be situations where the user thinks they got a shot but the camera did not take it because the lens was not in focus at the time.

 

I don't remember not getting shots stored in the way that you describe with the Z8. I am not saying there could not be a bug. 

[mike_halliwell]

2 hours ago, ilkka_nissila said:

I can imagine that when in focus priority there may be situations where the user thinks they got a shot but the camera did not take it because the lens was not in focus at the time.

I've had that happen once or twice before I realised what was happening... and it was usually with a grab shot in so, so light, with focus a long way off to start with.

I never use focus priority for moving things.

[ShunCheung]

I have not experienced those issues on my Z8, or for that matter on the Z9. I assume it is a matter of settings.

Before taking any pictures, it is important to format your memory cards on that Z8 beforehand. Otherwise, when you switch on the camera, it'll take a second or so for the camera to initialize the memory card(s), creating the file folder structure, etc.

[John Di Leo]

Thanks for the insights. It has happened so rarely, that I wonder if it is user error. It has happened with quick shots, as in Mardi Gras, as well as still shots, meaning careful composition, like shooting camellias in a garden in a more controlled situation.

My release setting is focus + release

I'll just keep an eye on it and report back as necessary. I am going on a big? camellia shoot Friday so I'll be putting the z8 through some paces. I think I am loving the ruggedness of the camera and the sensor and the dynamic range and the colors, etc etc, and the camera in general. Getting used to a mirrorless and the attendant "quirks" has been a long learning curve for me, after 50+ years of slr and dslr, but I love the results.

I am still trying to decide the best white balance setting. Right now I am using natural light auto, and sometimes the images are a little cool, just a little. Also, I think I have settled on  Neutral picture setting.

With this image processing computer, that the z8 is, I can find myself almost paralyzed by the infinite choices of settings and the interplay among them.

Thanks

[ShunCheung]

For Nikon firmware upgrades, placing the binary firmware *.bin file under the top-most folder, i.e. root directory in UNIX terminology, is standard procedure. That is the same regardless of whether you use XQD, CFexpres, or SD cards (also the old CF, Compact Flash).

[mike_halliwell]

2 hours ago, ShunCheung said:

For Nikon firmware upgrades, placing the binary firmware *.bin file under the top-most folder, i.e. root directory in UNIX terminology, is standard procedure. That is the same regardless of whether you use XQD, CFexpres, or SD cards (also the old CF, Compact Flash).

Wrong thread maybe?

[ShunCheung]

Sorry, I posted to the wrong thread.

[John Di Leo]

yes, but it was for me anyway 🙂

[ShunCheung]

12 hours ago, John Di Leo said:

yes, but it was for me anyway 🙂

Yeah, you confused me. 😀

[c_watson1]

Get a Fuji X-100 series or Ricoh GR digital series for street. Nikon MILCs just don't cut it.

[ilkka_nissila]

On 2/24/2024 at 10:56 PM, c_watson1 said:

Get a Fuji X-100 series or Ricoh GR digital series for street. Nikon MILCs just don't cut it.

While I haven't used the latest versions of the Fuji, I did have an X100S and it couldn't really focus on a moving subject (person walking towards the camera). The Fuji also didn't focus on moving subjects in candle light which my DSLRs at the time could do, although not with 100% consistency. The images at high ISO settings had the appearance of turning faces into plastic mannequins with no texture, even when shooting RAW. I tried newer versions of the X100 series in stores and every time I tried a sequence of shots with approaching people it failed to focus on them. I was shooting a royal wedding procession in Windsor (mainly to prove myself I had the patience, and I did, but it was quite taxing having not to leave my spot for 7-8 hours just to get 3 seconds of action), and someone was using a Fuji mirrorless camera next to me. I got about 10 good shots from those three seconds while my fellow spectator couldn't get the subjects in focus with the Fuji. This mirrored my experience with the Fujis and so I haven't really gotten into them again, though the X100 VI is tempting in some ways.

I don't really have any issues shooting street with the Zf or Z8. The shots come out in focus consistently (even when moving towards the camera) and they can be very fast to shoot with. For static people who are not walking the Fuji did work OK. I just don't want a camera which cannot handle whatever I throw at it.

[c_watson1]

Hmmm...an 11 yr-old camera whose AF lacked face detection. The X-100T and subsequent models did. Read the reviews. See the difference. No clue about the kvetching re: hi-ISO shots, newer models seem trouble-free. Wedding shooters like Kevin Mullins do beautiful work with these cameras. Like Nikon? Stay there. You'd probably have a slim chance of finding an X-100V or VI anyway.